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Elf Supporters: How would you run a homeland?


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#151
Samahl

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And let's not forget the "Soon we will reeducate all the elves who have lost their way" sentiments.


Teaching people about their cultural heritage is not the same as "reeducating" them. The Dalish might not understand why an elf wouldn't want to worship the Creators, but that doesn't mean they'll force them to if they get a homeland.
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#152
Augustei

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Your right Jedi Master of Orion, And now I can totally see that Tal'Vashoth and Elves are esentially the same due to their pointed ears, their pride and the fact they are both oppressed =/



#153
A Clever Name

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MRW I come back a few hours later to the thread
 
Spoiler
 
Can we all just cool our jets and get back on topic?  This is getting really annoying and pointless - insulting people over their preferences, c'mon.


#154
Samahl

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LGBT People exist and the challenges they face due to discrimination is very real.  Elves are not real and neither of their issues..


So cognitive dissonance, then.

#155
LobselVith8

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LGBT People exist and the challenges they face due to discrimination is very real.  Elves are not real and neither of their issues..

 

Some of us do notice how some people in this community use the elves to express real world racism, like the previous elven thread where one poster said that elves were the "n word" of Thedas. Rather than letting this thread devolve into a bloody dispute over the elves (which wasn't the intent of the original poster, who invited fans of the elves to talk civilly about the prospects of an elven homeland), perhaps we can return to that discussion?


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#156
Samahl

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So what your saying is they see non-Dalish elves being with them as a threat to the survival of their culture.


Not on the whole, but as nomadic clans that need to stick together? Yes, they need a shared culture.

#157
Jedi Master of Orion

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Your right Jedi Master of Orion, And now I can totally see that Tal'Vashoth and Elves are esentially the same due to their pointed ears, their pride and the fact they are both oppressed =/

 

Except as I said, City and Dalish elves share most of the same values and desires for maintaining their communities. They also share most of the same history.



#158
Master Warder Z_

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So cognitive dissonance, then.

 

How can it be contradictory to actually point out that one group actually exists and shouldn't be compared to a fictional one that in no way shape or form mirrors them?


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#159
Hanako Ikezawa

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Teaching people about their cultural heritage is not the same as "reeducating" them. The Dalish might not understand why an elf wouldn't want to worship the Creators, but that doesn't mean they'll force them to if they get a homeland.

Considering they won't let them join the clans unless they convert, I see no reason to think the Dalish being in charge of the homeland will be any different. 



#160
TheJediSaint

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Some of us do notice how some people in this community use the elves to express real world racism, like the previous elven thread where one poster said that elves were the "n word" of Thedas. Rather than letting this thread devolve into a bloody dispute over the elves (which wasn't the intent of the original poster, who invited fans of the elves to talk civilly about the prospects of an elven homeland), perhaps we can return to that discussion?

Accusing people that don't like elves of having real world prejudice is not going to foster a civil discussion either.  Both sides need to to pull back on the rhetoric.


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#161
Augustei

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Except as I said, City and Dalish elves share most of the same values and desires for maintaining their communities.

Like those Tal'Vashoth that "Cling to the ways of the Qun" by refusing to be mercenaries right? right? =P



#162
Master Warder Z_

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Considering they won't let them join the clans unless they convert, I see no reason to think the Dalish being in charge of the homeland will be any different. 

 

Remember in the DAO Dalish orgin when the newbie accidentally praises Andraste instead of the creators and he visibly flinches as if he is expecting to get a punch upside the head for saying it?



#163
LobselVith8

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Considering they won't let them join the clans unless they convert, I see no reason to think the Dalish being in charge of the homeland will be any different. 

 

I don't see the two as equivalent, considering that a nomadic lifestyle that is focused on following elven traditions and religion isn't the same as Dalish and Andrastian elves working together to oust the Orlesian Empire from power over the Dales (although the topic could pertain to another region of land where the elves might settle down).


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#164
TheJediSaint

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So cognitive dissonance, then.

Elves are a trope,  LGBT people are people.  There is no dissonance.



#165
Jedi Master of Orion

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Like those Tal'Vashoth that "Cling to the ways of the Qun" by refusing to be mercenaries right? right? =P

 

Tal'vashoth aren't even really a community at all. Dalish and City elves are. The comparison makes no sense. 



#166
Samahl

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How can it be contradictory to actually point out that one group actually exists and shouldn't be compared to a fictional one that in no way shape or form mirrors them?


Because there are parallels. Elves and LGBTQ+ people are both marginalized. They both internalize toxic, harmful messages and ideas related to their identities. Why shouldn't elves try to counteract anti-elf attitudes by expressing pride in themselves and their elfhood?
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#167
Samahl

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Elves are a trope,  LGBT people are people.  There is no dissonance.


Analogies must always be lost on you, I'd imagine.

#168
Master Warder Z_

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Because there are parallels. 

 

There are Parallels with EVERYTHING, honestly if i was pressed i bet i could find a dozen or more parallels with the QUN and some variant of Communism, Parallels don't have some overriding between what is fiction and what is reality.

 

When it comes down to the Dalish are nothing like the people you are speaking of, You inflating a fictitious group with a message you find endearing isn't the same as their situation being similar.


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#169
Hellion Rex

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Analogies must always be lost on you, I'd imagine.

And so you keep insulting people when they don't agree with or understand your analogies... <_<



#170
Augustei

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Analogies must always be lost on you, I'd imagine.

Probably just the stupid ones.



#171
LobselVith8

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Accusing people that don't like elves of having real world prejudice is not going to foster a civil discussion either.  Both sides need to to pull back on the rhetoric.

 

That would be possible if some of them didn't use real world racism in their remarks about the elves, which happened in the last elven thread. Quite frankly, this shouldn't have even happened, because this thread wasn't intended to debate the merits of an elven homeland; perhaps the people who don't like the elves can be civil and stop derailing a thread that invited fans of the elves to discuss how they would run a hypothetical elven homeland.


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#172
Steelcan

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Teaching people about their cultural heritage is not the same as "reeducating" them. The Dalish might not understand why an elf wouldn't want to worship the Creators, but that doesn't mean they'll force them to if they get a homeland.

if they get a new homeland conversion to the Dalish pantheon will likely be mandatory



#173
Augustei

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That would be possible if some of them didn't use real world racism in their remarks about the elves, which happened in the last elven thread. Quite frankly, this shouldn't have even happened, because this thread wasn't intended to debate the merits of an elven homeland; perhaps the people who don't like the elves can be civil and stop derailing a thread that invited fans of the elves to discuss how they would run a hypothetical elven homeland.

Some=1
Perhaps you could try telling them they aren't welcome again?



#174
Samahl

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And so you keep insulting people when they don't agree with or understand your analogies... <_<


How am I insulting anyone, and how is my analogy bad? I'm sure this discussion would benefit greatly through specifics.
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#175
Hanako Ikezawa

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I don't see the two as equivalent, considering that a nomadic lifestyle that is focused on following elven traditions and religion isn't the same as Dalish and Andrastian elves working together to oust the Orlesian Empire from power over the Dales (although the topic could pertain to another region of land where the elves might settle down).

How is it different? You think the Dalish are suddenly not going to focus on following 'elven' traditions and religion? You yourself have pointed out how you think them being with Andrastian elves could cause tension due to differing beliefs. Considering the Dales saw that as something worth removing by kicking out missionaries, and the Dalish wanting to be like the Dales, them religiously censoring all non-Dalish beliefs is well within the realm of possibility.