52 réponses à ce sujet

[Spicen]

Well, i was replaying DAO, before giving it one final goodbye. I came across an interesting thing in Soldier's peak. In one of Avernus's notes it is said that he was hearing a beautiful song and was dreaming about the black city. Of course the taint came when the magisters entered it.
But why did dumat lead his own followers to this? What is the link between the fade, demons and the black city? Why do the demons keep away from it?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well according to Corypheus, one of the magisters who entered the city, the city was already black and tainted when they got there.

 

"The city! It was supposed to be golden! It was supposed to be ours!"

[AresKeith]

I guess the Old Gods lied to the magisters telling them the City was Golden

 

I think the Black City was only meant to seal the taint but Dumat and the Old Gods got them to release it

[LPPrince]

I guess the Old Gods lied to the magisters telling them the City was Golden

 

I think the Black City was only meant to seal the taint but Dumat and the Old Gods got them to release it

 

Something like that possibly.

[pulsar989]

Anything a Magister who enters the black City says has to be with a grain of salt, I mean lets not lie to are selves this is a bad person he was part of the largest act of blood magic ever. As to his statment about it already being black he could be crazy and remembering things differntly, could have been double crossed and a old god got their before them after using them to open the door (or another of the magisters went in first), or some unkown force could have been sealed inside first (by the maker and or Androste maybe ancient elves) and the Magisters were used to realese it. As to why anyone would be lead to the black city simple power I mean it didn't play out the way the magisters thought but thier was a lot of power in the city that changed the world.

[Spicen]

I guess the Old Gods lied to the magisters telling them the City was Golden

I think the Black City was only meant to seal the taint but Dumat and the Old Gods got them to release it

But why would they want their servants to be mindless monsters and themselves to be corrupted by the taint. I mean the magisters could just use magic to find them and set them free.

[Magdalena11]

I guess the Old Gods lied to the magisters telling them the City was Golden

 

I think the Black City was only meant to seal the taint but Dumat and the Old Gods got them to release it

This is a pretty cool idea, kind of like a Pandora's box of corruption.  It's possible that one or more of the Old Gods foresaw their imprisonment and spread the taint as a way to ensure an endless supply of minions with a compulsion to free them.  This is oddly similar to Flemeth's manipulation of the Warden and Hawke, first to ensure that the Blight would end, and then to ensure her own survival if Morrigan was able to have her killed.

 

But why would they want their servants to be mindless monsters and themselves to be corrupted by the taint. I mean the magisters could just use magic to find them and set them free.

The magisters probably could have used their own magic to free the Old Gods, but as mindless creatures with a compulsion to free the Old Gods, darkspawn wouldn't be tempted to use their superior position to hold the Old Gods hostage.  Human magisters also eventually would have died, and successive generations may not have been biddable at all, or possessed the magic required to free them at all.  I doubt the Old Gods had any concerns for the welfare of the actual magisters at all.  

[The Real Lee]

There are a few reasons why the Old Gods want to get into the Golden City. It could be something as simple as curiosity. The city is in a fixed position in the fade and it is the same for everyone.

It could be that they wanted a mindless army of darkspawn to control, and literal immortality, they are more powerful with the taint.

 

It could be that they thought it was heaven and they tried to usurp it, only to corrupt it or to be wrong and find the taint instead.

 

ultimately we need more information to give a real answer.

[The Real Lee]

Anything a Magister who enters the black City says has to be with a grain of salt, I mean lets not lie to are selves this is a bad person he was part of the largest act of blood magic ever. As to his statment about it already being black he could be crazy and remembering things differntly, could have been double crossed and a old god got their before them after using them to open the door (or another of the magisters went in first), or some unkown force could have been sealed inside first (by the maker and or Androste maybe ancient elves) and the Magisters were used to realese it. As to why anyone would be lead to the black city simple power I mean it didn't play out the way the magisters thought but thier was a lot of power in the city that changed the world.

 

Andraste came after the First Blight, but yeah, we have to take anything said by the ancient Magisters with a grain of salt, however we need to take what the chantry says with even more skepticism. We know that Andraste was born after the First Blight, which means that she was born at the earliest  nearly two centuries after the Magisters entered the Golden City.

 

The information obtained from the Chantry may be commonly known but it is if anything less reliable than what Corypheus says.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Not sure how so many is missing this option (though I cant prove it); it seems very obvious to me - that whoever or whatever tricked the magisters into the golden city - were posing as Dumat to fool them.

[thats1evildude]

What if it were possible to destroy the darkspawn by destroying the Black City? Hmmm ...

[DarthLaxian]

Well,

 

I'd agree with saying tha Corrypheus could have lied, but the Chantry lies, too (after all: How would Andraste know about what happened with the Blights and the Black City, if she was born AFTER the first one? - Maybe it isn't the word of Andraste that is spread anyway? Who knows if the Chantry does not have a Vatican-Style secret archive were they hide the true words (or even only books saying that there was no Andraste in the first place? Or that she was a mage? etc.))

 

Secondly:

 

I don't think the Old Gods want the taint (they turn into mindless beasts that only want to destroy everything that is not tainted...) - you can't rule over anything if you destroy it first (and lose your mind in the process!)

 

Thirdly:

 

I don't think the Black/Golden City was a prison - I don't know what else it might have been, but a prison? - Who would build a golden prison?

 

greetings LAX

[AresKeith]

Thirdly:

 

I don't think the Black/Golden City was a prison - I don't know what else it might have been, but a prison? - Who would build a golden prison?

 

 

That's assuming it was golden to begin with

[themageguy]

Not sure how so many is missing this option (though I cant prove it); it seems very obvious to me - that whoever or whatever tricked the magisters into the golden city - were posing as Dumat to fool them.

I thought this too
Whoever /whatever it was mustve known that the magisters would've been tainted and bring that taint back into thedas, with it targeting the old gods.

Im inclined to believe old Corypheus. He seems to be legitimately confused upon his release and sounds betrayed by "Dumat."
At least IMO.
Im hoping we come across him again and can question him a bit.
He was the best mage fight too in dragon age 2 lol.
In a codex it mentions he uses both the magic of man and the darkspawn magic. Im hoping we see him use fire and lightning, then maybe black flames that deal cold or spirit damage, and can explode his darkspawn like the archdemon could.

[Maria Caliban]

But why would they want their servants to be mindless monsters and themselves to be corrupted by the taint. I mean the magisters could just use magic to find them and set them free.

I assume that becoming horribly tainted by darkspawn and having their souls destroyed by Grey Wardens was not part of their master plan. If the Old Gods led the Magister's to the city, they may have thought it would be full of chocolate. Like the golden outside reminded them of the golden ticket so they mistook it for Willy Wonka's factory.

That's assuming it was golden to begin with

It's safe to assume that it was golden on the outside as both Andreste and the Magisters say it was.

[Dean_the_Young]

But why would they want their servants to be mindless monsters and themselves to be corrupted by the taint. I mean the magisters could just use magic to find them and set them free.

 

What's wrong with turning the magisters into incredibly powerful, subservient, mindless monsters capable of wiping out all other rivals and dominating the world?

 

If you're in to that sort of thing, of course.

 

The corruption of the Old Gods by the taint may not have been part of the plan, but that could fall under 'went horrifically right' sort of deal. If the Old Gods really were aiming for a power grab (which the magisters believed they were co-conspirators for, and Dumat seems to have egged on), then tricking the Magisters into turning into a hive mind slave race that the Old Gods would dominate would only increase their power.

 

The Magisters were led into the city with the promise of unfathomable power, which was true in a sense. But how did the Old Gods stand to benefit from the arrangement?

[Dean_the_Young]

I assume that becoming horribly tainted by darkspawn and having their souls destroyed by Grey Wardens was not part of their master plan. If the Old Gods led the Magister's to the city, they may have thought it would be full of chocolate. Like the golden outside reminded them of the golden ticket so they mistook it for Willy Wonka's factory.


It's safe to assume that it was golden on the outside as both Andreste and the Magisters say it was.

 

And Gaider has noted that there are pre-blight historic records referring to it as golden as well.

[Dayze]

Maybe its a trick set up by demons.....get people to want to go to it, have them commit huge blood sacrifices to weaken the fade and make it easier for you to cross over.

 

Set up some kind of trap so no one can report back that it wasn't what it was really supposed to be and simply say that was their punishment for attempting to get their.

[Dr. Doctor]

Patrick Weekes did mention that the Fade appears as the reflection of the viewer's mind:

Most people in Thedas think of the Fade as demon-land… and Solas believes this is part of the problem. If you go into a realm that by its very nature reflects the thoughts and fears of living people, and if all you’re ever taught in the Chantry is that the Fade is this terrible place that wants to kill or possess you, then when you get there, of course it’s like that.

The Magisters and most people viewing the Fade who believed in the Golden City would have most likely seen just that. However if something of much greater power, like the dreaming mind of an Old God is residing in that portion of the Fade it might take on the form of the Black City. It may be that whoever constructed the Old God prison seen in the concept art trapped their souls inside the Fade, away from their physical forms.

When the Magisters pierced the Veil and entered the city perhaps the Old Gods were returned to their bodies deep underground. The taint could serve as a way for them to create thralls to free them from their prisons Call of Cthulhu-style.

[Maria Caliban]

Is Patrick being Word of God there or is he explaining Solas' viewpoint? It reads like the latter.

[Fialka]

Is Patrick being Word of God there or is he explaining Solas' viewpoint? It reads like the latter.

Even if it is Solas' viewpoint, no character is written in a vacuum. Since he is supposed to be our Fade expert, I would say his perspective is a reliable source as any for Fade-related lore. Even if you do take it with a grain of salt, it's no more than you would with anything else we've been taught about the Fade - which, if I remember right, has largely been from an Andrastian viewpoint. A few tidbits about "the Beyond" as it's called by the Dalish, but not much. I don't see the Chantry as a reliable source of information - for reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread, and also because they would only benefit from manipulating the facts to suit themselves (as many real world religions have done).

 

The idea that the Fade is like a collective unconscious shaped by the emotions and expectations of those experiencing it is an interesting one. Perhaps the city was never golden to begin with. Or maybe it was, but the dreams of the Old Gods/the fear and pain of the slaves used in the ritual/the greed of the Magisters/something else turned it black.

 

I rather like the theory that the Old Gods were high dragons possessed by powerful spirits, which is how they became sentient and manipulative. We know from our few encounters with spirits in the books and games that they lack foresight, and don't get that their actions have outcomes they can't predict - since the material world isn't malleable the way the Fade is. It's possible that the Old Gods intended to create something, but what they ended up with was the darkspawn. And now they pay the price as well. I hope we get at least some answers in the game, be it through a certain Fade expert, or otherwise.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

It's safe to assume that it was golden on the outside as both Andreste and the Magisters say it was.

That the black city was golden might just aswell have been an illusion aswell to lure people there?

[Spicen]

That the black city was golden might just aswell have been an illusion aswell to lure people there?

If that is true why does it appear black all the time now

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

If that is true why does it appear black all the time now

Im talking about back when the magisters got lured there. The city being golden pre-blight may have been a magical illusion to draw attention.