518 réponses à ce sujet

[themageguy]

It has nothing to do with a mage being evil or vilified. I loose control because I am put in a emotionally charged position I punch someone. because I lost control of my restraint. Oh well they have a black eye or fat lip. If I was a mage its likely they are dead because set them on fire, turned them to stone, or ended up getting possessed (yes THAT IS PART OF THE SETTING mages that lose their self control and are far more likely to be posseed) level a few city blocks.

Its not about evil its about self-control and to think mages are any better or can not do major damage and death when they lose it is silly.

if anything, that points out that mages are just like everyone else in the fact they need to learn self control and i totally agree with you.

Back to the topic, i like my idea i mentioned about the duo system. It recognises that without training mages can be dangerous, encourages co-operation between Templars and mages, and still monitors for any illegal magics.

[Cainhurst Crow]

if anything, that points out that mages are just like everyone else in the fact they need to learn self control and i totally agree with you.

Back to the topic, i like my idea i mentioned about the duo system. It recognises that without training mages can be dangerous, encourages co-operation between Templars and mages, and still monitors for any illegal magics.

Too much leyway for dick measuring contests to play out like what we saw in DA2 and the mage origin in DAO, both sides withholding information or causeing trouble to motherfuck the other and gain more power and political leverage.

[themageguy]

Whoops

[A Clever Name]

Because city guards have been shown to be so effective against normal raiders and thugs, let alone mages. I'll just send a running messenger or draft a letter to the guards in my few days away village about the hulking monster ripping my fellow townsman apart with its mind.

They'll surely come in time to stop the rampaging abomination or put out the massively spreading fire caused by a mage loosing their temper before we're all killed.

Hey man, I was just pointing out the assault/battery (depending on where you come from - assault is usually interchangeable with battery where I come from) factor in the argument that went entirely ignored.  Both scenarios need restraint, is all I was trying to say, because either way they're both committing crimes, regardless of the severity.  No need to cop an attitude, friend.  Or extrapolate an entire scenario I never once mentioned from a two-sentence reply.

[themageguy]

Too much leyway for dick measuring contests to play out like what we saw in DA2 and the mage origin in DAO, both sides withholding information or causeing trouble to motherfuck the other and gain more power and political leverage.

You're describing the current system.
Both sides are afraid of each other, which encourages all the bull between them.
My thought if they are working together, on a more equal standing, it should cut on the bull.

For example, Wynne or Marethari ( her personality) and Cullen would make a near perfect team in my order.

Cullen is a great example of a templar Imo.

[HK-90210]

Personally, I'd prefer some form of Parole system. A certain amount of time after their Harrowing, with no escape attempts or other incidents, a mage should be allowed to live outside the Circle, but still under its authority. There should be limits on where he or she lives, and with whom. And every so often they have to check in with a templar whose duty it is to check on these paroled mages. If the mage attempts to escape, they lose their new freedom. If there is any proof that they have engaged in any magic not approved by the templar, they lose their freedom. And if they have children with magical talent, those children will be allowed to live in their home until they are adults, but must be educated at the Circle, and must live there on a permanent basis once they come of age and until they have earned the freedom their parent(s) did.

 

It ain't perfect by any means, but it's the only thing close to a decent compromise that I can come up with, given the current situation.

[Cainhurst Crow]

You're describing the current system.
Both sides are afraid of each other, which encourages all the bull between them.
My thought if they are working together, on a more equal standing, it should cut on the bull.

For example, Wynne or Marethari ( her personality) and Cullen would make a near perfect team in my order.

Cullen is a great example of a templar Imo.

Why would they work together more? The closer they are in power, the more they'll work harder to get an advantage over one another.

[Master Warder Z_]

Cullen is a great example of a templar Imo.

 

Lambert is the greatest example of a templar imo

[themageguy]

Personally, I'd prefer some form of Parole system. A certain amount of time after their Harrowing, with no escape attempts or other incidents, a mage should be allowed to live outside the Circle, but still under its authority. There should be limits on where he or she lives, and with whom. And every so often they have to check in with a templar whose duty it is to check on these paroled mages. If the mage attempts to escape, they lose their new freedom. If there is any proof that they have engaged in any magic not approved by the templar, they lose their freedom. And if they have children with magical talent, those children will be allowed to live in their home until they are adults, but must be educated at the Circle, and must live there on a permanent basis once they come of age and until they have earned the freedom their parent(s) did.

It ain't perfect by any means, but it's the only thing close to a decent compromise that I can come up with, given the current situation.

i like your system. It encourages less segregation too which leads to better understanding.

[Master Warder Z_]

Why would they work together more? The closer they are in power, the more they'll work harder to get an advantage over one another.

 

Hence why the Templars should just have all the power.

[A Clever Name]

Personally, I'd prefer some form of Parole system. A certain amount of time after their Harrowing, with no escape attempts or other incidents, a mage should be allowed to live outside the Circle, but still under its authority. There should be limits on where he or she lives, and with whom. And every so often they have to check in with a templar whose duty it is to check on these paroled mages. If the mage attempts to escape, they lose their new freedom. If there is any proof that they have engaged in any magic not approved by the templar, they lose their freedom. And if they have children with magical talent, those children will be allowed to live in their home until they are adults, but must be educated at the Circle, and must live there on a permanent basis once they come of age and until they have earned the freedom their parent(s) did.

 

It ain't perfect by any means, but it's the only thing close to a decent compromise that I can come up with, given the current situation.

I think this is a very reasonable suggestion, and at the very least a workable one.  What do you think constitutes "approved" magic, in your opinion, though (other than blood magic, as we all know no one in White Chantry Thedas would find that acceptable)?  It's a little open to interpretation, which can be good and bad, depending on the circumstances.

[themageguy]

Why would they work together more? The closer they are in power, the more they'll work harder to get an advantage over one another.

because in my order, they're after the same objective, and actually working together. They're not privvy to one side or the other. They are on the same side.

[dragonflight288]

Wynnes son was a mage so he was taken and educated, but I think you're misinterpreting what's being said. Circle mages give birth to a baby, if it has magic its raised in the circle and if not its probably put up for adoption. Chantry's run the orphanages most likely since lords and ladies probably wouldn't put up the coin, so that's how that cycle goes.

 

There isn't going to be a bunch of non-mages being raised in the circle for shits and giggles like you make it sound like. The circles not a place for a non-mage to be raised.

 

Nope, that's not how it works.

 

Magic sensitivity is not known until the child is somewhere between 4-6 years of age. When a mage, married or not has a child, the baby is taken to be raised by the chantry almost straight from birth. 

 

If the child is not a mage, that child will likely be raised as other orhpans in the Chantry, raised to be a brother or a templar, like Alistair was when he was fostered in the Chantry by Eamon, but if the child turns out to be a mage, they are taken to a circle far from their birth parent. 

 

In an earlier dialogue, Wynne says that mages having relations is frowned upon, sometimes even strictly forbidden depending on the circle. And children of the mages in the circle are always taken away from them, even if the mage in question had permission to marry, they are not allowed to have children. 

 

This is from dialogue and the word of Gaider. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Personally, I'd prefer some form of Parole system. A certain amount of time after their Harrowing, with no escape attempts or other incidents, a mage should be allowed to live outside the Circle, but still under its authority. There should be limits on where he or she lives, and with whom. And every so often they have to check in with a templar whose duty it is to check on these paroled mages. If the mage attempts to escape, they lose their new freedom. If there is any proof that they have engaged in any magic not approved by the templar, they lose their freedom. And if they have children with magical talent, those children will be allowed to live in their home until they are adults, but must be educated at the Circle, and must live there on a permanent basis once they come of age and until they have earned the freedom their parent(s) did.
 
It ain't perfect by any means, but it's the only thing close to a decent compromise that I can come up with, given the current situation.

Never strive for perfection, its just another work for dead end stagnation. Aim for being Bette then what came before instead. Which I think you did with this one.

[Master Warder Z_]

Nope, that's not how it works.

 

Magic sensitivity is not known until the child is somewhere between 4-6 years of age. When a mage, married or not has a child, the baby is taken to be raised by the chantry almost straight from birth. 

 

If the child is not a mage, that child will likely be raised as other orhpans in the Chantry, raised to be a brother or a templar, like Alistair was when he was fostered in the Chantry by Eamon, but if the child turns out to be a mage, they are taken to a circle far from their birth parent. 

 

That doesn't prevent them from leaving, they are quite more then capable of leaving either the Chantry or Templar Order.

 

Seriously, i find it highly inaccurate to label it in anyway shape form of the Chantry "owning" those Children, when once they have come to adulthood they can remain or make their own way.

 

It isn't denied to them, and in the mean time they have a place to stay, education and food.

 

Sounds better then what a lot of Thedas endures daily.

[HK-90210]

I think this is a very reasonable suggestion, and at the very least a workable one.  What do you think constitutes "approved" magic, in your opinion, though (other than blood magic, as we all know no one in White Chantry Thedas would find that acceptable)?  It's a little open to interpretation, which can be good and bad, depending on the circumstances.

 

I wasn't referring to a specific type of magic. I was referring to any magic at all. Anything the paroled mage does with his/her powers must be approved by the templar assigned to them. If they work as an enchanter making runes, they need to have their scrying approved by the templar. Their former instructors must tell the templar that it isn't some amateur who doesn't know what he/she is doing. If they use magic to light fires, the templar has to approve the why, there where and the when. And if the mage doesn't keep to those Ws, there goes their freedom. Even the excuse of 'self-defense' can only be an excuse in very specific dire circumstances.

 

Again, this is my best idea towards a compromise. It gives mages the opportunity to live lives closer to normal, as well as give them a goal to work towards. Something to hope for. That's the biggest failure of the Circle system. It tells the mages that all they will ever have is the life they live now. They can't even hope for different. That leads to despair for some. Despair leaves them quite susceptible to demons. It also allows them to become part of the wider community of Thedas, rather than their own little worlds in those towers. This can lead to lessen the fear of magic in the common people. Hopefully.

[dragonflight288]

That doesn't prevent them from leaving, they are quite more then capable of leaving either the Chantry or Templar Order.

 

Seriously, i find it highly inaccurate to label it in anyway shape form of the Chantry "owning" those Children, when once they have come to adulthood they can remain or make their own way.

 

It isn't denied to them, and in the mean time they have a place to stay, education and food.

 

Sounds better then what a lot of Thedas endures daily.

 

And have their choices made for them, the very thing Alistair talks about during his time in the Chantry. And that made it the thing he resented most about the templars and the Chantry. 

 

And when it comes to mages, having material goods, shelter and food does nothing to prevent abominations, blood mages, or any of the dangers that magic poses if the mages does not have emotional stability. The mage origin shows this clearly at the beginning, with that mage practicing with fire and setting himself alight because he panicked at hearing of injuries, or that apprentice who is told straight out by his mentor that fear is the enemy when it comes to the strength of his fade shield. Wynne also talks of losing her temper and setting a childhood bully's hair on fire. 

 

Giving mages material goods ultimately does nothing to help them control their powers and resist the dangers that come with being a mage if they are kept in conditions that prohibit emotional growth, and often times inflict emotional suffering, like a mother mourning over a child taken from her at birth, to orphans wondering what their parents were like, or even the children who were abandoned by their parents simply for having magic, like Jowan, and then watched constantly in a system that does not really hold templars accountable for abuses of said mages. 

 

Yes, they have better living conditions than most, but if they lack self-esteem, a strong emotional foundation and stability, the Circle will ultimately fail at their intended purpose. 

 

It's not right to create crappy emotional conditions and treat them as monsters, and when they lash out in either desperation or self-defense, to use that reaction as justification for treating them so badly to begin with.

 

I'm all for reforming the Circle system, and reforming the templars, but I will never condone punishing mages for something they haven't done, nor breaking up families if it can be avoided. 

[Master Warder Z_]

And have their choices made for them, the very thing Alistair talks about during his time in the Chantry. And that made it the thing he resented most about the templars and the Chantry. 

 

And when it comes to mages, having material goods, shelter and food does nothing to prevent abominations, blood mages, or any of the dangers that magic poses if the mages does not have emotional stability. The mage origin shows this clearly at the beginning, with that mage practicing with fire and setting himself alight because he panicked at hearing of injuries, or that apprentice who is told straight out by his mentor that fear is the enemy when it comes to the strength of his fade shield. Wynne also talks of losing her temper and setting a childhood bully's hair on fire. 

 

Giving mages material goods ultimately does nothing to help them control their powers and resist the dangers that come with being a mage if they are kept in conditions that prohibit emotional growth, and often times inflict emotional suffering, like a mother mourning over a child taken from her at birth, to orphans wondering what their parents were like, or even the children who were abandoned by their parents simply for having magic, like Jowan, and then watched constantly in a system that does not really hold templars accountable for abuses of said mages. 

 

Yes, they have better living conditions than most, but if they lack self-esteem, a strong emotional foundation and stability, the Circle will ultimately fail at their intended purpose. 

 

It's not right to create crappy emotional conditions and treat them as monsters, and when they lash out in either desperation or self-defense, to use that reaction as justification for treating them so badly to begin with.

 

I'm all for reforming the Circle system, and reforming the templars, but I will never condone punishing mages for something they haven't done, nor breaking up families if it can be avoided. 

 

This has nothing to do with me taking issue with the usage of the wording people are inferring.

 

._. Seriously The Chantry "owns" the children of mages, so this little diatribe doesn't really address anything beyond them having to  live by the Chantry's rules while under their roof.

[themageguy]

I wasn't referring to a specific type of magic. I was referring to any magic at all. Anything the paroled mage does with his/her powers must be approved by the templar assigned to them. If they work as an enchanter making runes, they need to have their scrying approved by the templar. Their former instructors must tell the templar that it isn't some amateur who doesn't know what he/she is doing. If they use magic to light fires, the templar has to approve the why, there where and the when. And if the mage doesn't keep to those Ws, there goes their freedom. Even the excuse of 'self-defense' can only be an excuse in very specific dire circumstances.

Again, this is my best idea towards a compromise. It gives mages the opportunity to live lives closer to normal, as well as give them a goal to work towards. Something to hope for. That's the biggest failure of the Circle system. It tells the mages that all they will ever have is the life they live now. They can't even hope for different. That leads to despair for some. Despair leaves them quite susceptible to demons. It also allows them to become part of the wider community of Thedas, rather than their own little worlds in those towers. This can lead to lessen the fear of magic in the common people. Hopefully.

Liking it!

[dragonflight288]

This has nothing to do with me taking issue with the usage of the wording people are inferring.

 

._. Seriously The Chantry "owns" the children of mages, so this little diatribe doesn't really address anything beyond them having to  live by the Chantry's rules while under their roof.

 

Wynne's words are quite clear. Crystal clear. 

 

"And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry."

 

They belong to the chantry. Not raised by, not given nourishment and shelter, they belong to the Chantry. Almost as property. 

[HiroVoid]

Wynne's words are quite clear. Crystal clear. 

 

"And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry."

 

They belong to the chantry. Not raised by, not given nourishment and shelter, they belong to the Chantry. Almost as property. 

Uh....that just means they're taken in and raised as either brothers, sisters, templars, or mages in the future.  I seriously doubt it means they can't pursue any other means of living as much as a farmer can try his hand at being a merchant.  Of course, I doubt it happens often just as the latter example would be fairly rare as well.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lambert is the greatest example of a templar imo

Which is strange since I swear he is supposed to be acting as a Seeker, not a Templar. 

[HK-90210]

Yet the mages aren't the only ones that have broken the law. What do you think ignoring the word of the king would be considered?

 

If templars make a mage who has passed his/her Harrowing tranquil, they have broken the law.

To me, it is totally logical for a mage to do away with what the law says and do as they wish, regardless of what they have been taught. But it isn't right.

 

If mages run from the Circle and turn to blood magic to get away from the templars, they have broken the law.

To me, it is totally logical for a templar to do away with what the law says and do as they wish, regardless of what they have been taught. But it isn't right.

 

Both sides broke the law. And both sides will pay for it. But in the meantime, the world burns and innocent people die in the crossfire, as was bound to happen in war. That is why I hate both the mages and the templars. They wage war, and innocents die.

[HK-90210]

Wynne's words are quite clear. Crystal clear. 

 

"And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry."

 

They belong to the chantry. Not raised by, not given nourishment and shelter, they belong to the Chantry. Almost as property. 

 

Actually, the children are raised in Chantry orphanages with all of the other children without parents. The Chantry doesn't have any more claim on them than all the other children with nowhere else to go. If they show a talent for magic, as many children of mages do, they go to the Circle like any other mage. Nowhere is is said that such children are made property, or treated any differently than any other orphan.

 

Source: DA: Asunder, when Rhys reminisces on his background.

[cjones91]

Which is strange since I swear he is supposed to be acting as a Seeker, not a Templar. 

Funny how that works,Lambert completely went beyond the bounds of his role as far as I'm concerned.He was supposed to keep the Templars in check not take it upon himself to do their job for them.