Hawke and the Warden never took vows to keep out of "non magical" affairs,the Templars are supposed to keep out of politics and focus on dealing with mages,It's why they don't investigate crimes unless magic is involved.
So what?Wardens (im talking about order) broke their neutrality when it is better solution and they need to handle things world isn't black and white templars work is to stop mages by any means meredith took power to stop mages.
The actions of Anders and Meredith did that on its own. Hawke merely becomes a symbol of whatever group (s)he aids.
Anders was a known apostate, also a known associate of Hawke. That alone should be grounds for questioning regarding Anders' whereabouts, or maybe something worse. Their code demands as much.
Speaking from a Templar point of view, and assuming we're making a grade based on performance, Meredith should indeed be considered one of the worst the Order has had to offer.
So what?Wardens (im talking about order) broke their neutrality when it is better solution and they need to handle things world isn't black and white templars work is to stop mages by any means meredith took power to stop mages.
So what?Wardens (im talking about order) broke their neutrality when it is better solution and they need to handle things world isn't black and white templars work is to stop mages by any means meredith took power to stop mages.
The last time the Grey Wardens got involved in politics they were kicked out of Fereldan and labeled as outlaws.Alistair and the Warden are the rare exception
What part of "Templars have sworn to keep of non magical affairs" did you miss?That includes politics as well.
Anders was a known apostate, also a known associate of Hawke. That alone should be grounds for questioning regarding Anders' whereabouts, or maybe something worse. Their code demands as much.
Speaking from a Templar point of view, and assuming we're making a grade based on performance, Meredith should indeed be considered one of the worst the Order has had to offer.
Fair enough point, but Anders was also a Grey Warden.
Didn't stop Ser Rylon from trying to illegally apprehend him in Awakening, but your point is still well-made.
And also true. 
The last the Grey Wardens got involved in politics they were kicked out of Fereldan and labeled as outlaws.Alistair and the Warden are the rare exception
What part of "Templars have sworn to keep of non magical affairs" did you miss?That includes politics as well.
Reasons why they got kicked is because they went against nation because "it wasn't right" not to stop darkspawn... not very smart and far from their main goal
If alistair and the warden didn't went against wardens rule pretty much ferelden would be destroyed and world would have to deal with blight.
As i said most laws aren't there to look pretty or make you right there are there because it is practical if following rules isn't ,smart thing to do is break/ignore that specific law.
As i said world isn't black and white meredith broke that rule to bring order in kirwkall and stop mages what is main goal of her organization pretty much besides upset nobles there wasn't harm in it.
Reasons why they got kicked is because they went against nation because "it wasn't right" not to stop darkspawn... not very smart and far from their main goal
If alistair and the warden didn't went against wardens rule pretty much ferelden would be destroyed and world would have to deal with blight.
As i said most laws aren't there to look pretty or make you right there are there because it is practical if following rules isn't ,smart thing to do is break/ignore that specific law.
As i said world isn't black and white meredith broke that rule to bring order in kirwkall and stop mages what is main goal of her organization pretty much besides upset nobles there wasn't harm in it.
The bottom line is Meredith should've gave up the Viscount seat and let Kirkwall elect a new one.Taking control of the city is not part of her job which is dealing with mages.
Emeric had to investigate a crime alone with no help from his fellow Templars because they felt it was a "civilian" matter.That alone shows the Order doesn't engage in matters not related to mages and magic.
The bottom line is Meredith should've gave up the Viscount seat and let Kirkwall elect a new one.Taking control of the city is not part of her job which is dealing with mages.
Emeric had to investigate a crime alone with no help from his fellow Templars because they felt it was a "civilian" matter.That alone shows the Order doesn't engage in matters not related to mages and magic.
Ech...
Meredith took control over the kirkwall to restore order in it as kirkwall was filled with blood mages what is their job it was measure to deal with mages as i said main goal of the order.So in the end meredith was following her job and goal of her organization she just broke the rule to do that more effectively as i said same thing did alistair and possible the warden if was played as loyal to the wardens.
The bottom line is Meredith should've gave up the Viscount seat and let Kirkwall elect a new one.Taking control of the city is not part of her job which is dealing with mages.
Emeric had to investigate a crime alone with no help from his fellow Templars because they felt it was a "civilian" matter.That alone shows the Order doesn't engage in matters not related to mages and magic.
He should've had help. In Act 1, Hawke followed up on his leads and was ambushed by shades and demons.
That red flag should've had the a whole templar contingent securing the area.
He should've had help. In Act 1, Hawke followed up on his leads and was ambushed by shades and demons.
That red flag should've had the a whole templar contingent securing the area.
more templars barging into homes is not the way to win hearts and minds
more templars barging into homes is not the way to win hearts and minds
I'm talking about the Foundry.
With human remains discovered, a man fleeing the scene, and demons being summoned, you have a pretty clear case where the templars should get involved.
Yet the single best case where templars should've, and could've gotten involved for the safety of all, as is their creed, is also the case they are most noticeably absent save Emerick, who is working alone as he's the only one who's bothering to look into the disappearance of a missing mage.
Easy guys and girls this is just how you would change the templar order if you can. Everyone is initialized to their own opinion. Though you can disagree with the other persons post, it is still their right to say how they can run the templar order if they can change it.
and this still doesn't change the fact that your statement about Cullen being the only Templar to have misgivings about Meredith is fallacious hyperbole.
So she takes the Viscount seat,prevents a new one from being elected and generally holds all of the political power in Kirkwall.Nope,totally nothing illegal there.I bet if a mage did that you'll change your tune though,since they are also prevented from taking political positions by chantry law.
Again, she did NOT take the Viscount seat, officially. She was already the power in Kirkwall, long before she prevented the election of a new Viscount. So no, Meredith did not actually break any laws.
And yes, of course my tune would change if a mage did the same. Because if a mage did the same, it would mean he was an apostate, an illegal mage. Unless your example would be a Circle Mage, and then I would be perfectly fine with it, as long as he remained perfectly within the Circle's rules and confines. A Circle mage would never garner so much influence though, since the Chantry, let alone the Templars, would never let that happen.
She didn't betray the Templars. She remained committed to the Templar order's ideals as she saw them. It was Lambert she couldn't follow.
Actually Lambert is what the Templar Order's Ideals really are. So she did betray the Templar Order.
Delete please another double post. Sorry.
And yet the vast majority we've met are perfectly nice guys, imo they were by far one of the most helpful factions(though that's not saying much) in the franchise.
Also what about the Tevinter Templar order?
Two. We met two who where not totally and complete jack holes. The vast majority of templars we meet zealots who would kill a mage as soon as look at them.
Thetinyevil why you just don't edit/put everything in 1 post instead of writing 3 separate posts?
The Templar Order as it is now needs to be destroyed and the majority of the templars locked up in a prison someplace and left to rot save for a few who are not hate filled zealots. Than when the Order is remade they would not have power of mages. Yes they would still watch over them and deal with abominations and the like but no real power. And they would not be controlled by the Chantry.
more templars barging into homes is not the way to win hearts and minds
Again, she did NOT take the Viscount seat, officially. She was already the power in Kirkwall, long before she prevented the election of a new Viscount. So no, Meredith did not actually break any laws.
Actually, preventing the election is also breaking the law. But that's not the problem.
The problems in Kirkwall didn't start when Hawke arrived, or when the Qunari attacked, or when Anders blew up the Chantry. The problems in Kirkwall started in 9:21 when Viscount Perrin was deposed by the Templars.
Perrin was a jerk and his way to charge fees to Orlesian ships was a bastard move, but it was his right as Viscount. But then entered Divine Beatrix III who wanted to help her pal, the Orlesian Emperor, so she used the Templars to put pressure on the Viscount. The Knight Commander didn't like it and stated clearly that Templars shouldn't interfere. "We are here to safeguard the city against magic, not against itself". Ironically, he, the moderate, paid the price, because Perrin went on to punish the Templars and had the Knight Commander hung. Then Meredith, his second in command, stormed the castle, imprisoned the Viscount with Elthina's blessing and the Chantry chose a puppet-ruler, the ineffectual Marlowe Dumar, after promising the nobility that they could choose their new Viscount. All to ensure that no Kirkwall ruler would stand against their will again... and giving extraordinary powers to the largest Templar garrison in the Free Marches.
That was the original sin, the unlawful act. Everything we saw in DA2 was a result of that.
There is no clinging to nothing. Your original statement said that Cullen was the only Templar to express any misgivings with Meredith's command, which is clearly false.Yes cling to this if it makes pretending easier for you. This kind of minority is completely ignored when Judgement is passed. Very few Nazis also hid Jews in their homes but they were too few no one cares or counts them. This is a similar case.
And not a single Templar questioned orders who came from Meredith. Why would they? They are fed because of her, who cares about some mages suffering and dying am I right? Albeit Cullen's last minute change of heart which in a reverse position where a mage has a change of heart at last minute he doesn't accept it.
At least mages have the courtesy to question their own kind and blood magic.
How is it dishonestly? The minority what we talked about is so insignificant that I don't even count them. I didn't even remembered them when I posted the original statement. As I made the comparison earlier, if something is rotten the core it really doesn't matter if very few individuals are different.There is no clinging to nothing. Your original statement said that Cullen was the only Templar to express any misgivings with Meredith's command, which is clearly false.
Shifting the goalpost to dismiss your hyperbole is intellectual dishonesty at it's finest...
Hawke and the Warden never took vows to keep out of "non magical" affairs,the Templars are supposed to keep out of politics and focus on dealing with mages,It's why they don't investigate crimes unless magic is involved.
The Warden can potentially violate his order's tenants several times over in game.
The PC is flawed, or down right greedy depending upon how you play it.
People tend to forget that Warden's are supposed to be neutral in all issues regarding politics, they are also supposed to never take titles or lands.
So a Warden becoming a King, is a violation, Admittedly though it goes into a grey area if they renounce membership.
I really don't see...what this has to do in comparison to the Templar Order really.
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