518 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

Also its not as simple as "everything was fine until fire nation attacked". As a society many mages probably opposed the idea of mass fade entering but the stronger party who had the blessing of old gods obviously won and they did it. Again citizens and other mages of Tevinter hold no blame, you cannot judge a people by their government especially not by their past government! Because the Tevinter government has changed. The imperial chantry blames the old gods for darkspawn and not the mages and they got the right idea in this matter.

[TheJediSaint]

The Templars could probably benefit from restricting their recruitment to just hard boiled detectives who secretly have hearts of gold

[Master Warder Z_]

You said mages instead of the Tevinter Magisters who caused the problem,what else was I supposed to infer from that except all mages are to blame?

 

Really? You think i am of the belief that somehow, All mages from a thousand plus years after the event were somehow connected with second sin? This argument is so faulty it's foundation might as well be sand.

 

Also wouldn't mages also work because we only know of one confirmed Magister who was there?

 

And Mages is a plural form of Magi, so unless if you believe cory was there alone, there would indeed be mages.

[Sir DeLoria]

Your imagination would be wrong then,I support a zealot and extremist free Templar order.

Please elaborate how every Templar, every single one of them is a zealot? Yes there was that one codex entry about how the order looks for loyal and pious recruits, but that doesn't immediately equate fanaticism.

[Lulupab]

Very rare thing? Are you kidding me? How about the time when a third of the Kirkwall order rebelled against their Knight-Commander? How about the time when the Temlars refuse to answer Meredith's order at the end of DA2? Or the time Cullen refuses to execute the surrendering mages in the final battle, again against Meredith's orders?
Also being a nice guy or not has absolutely nothing to do with your loyalty.

You mean at the last minute when it meant absolute pure ****? What were they doing for several years? Ironically Cullen has quote "albeit last minute change of heart" that's exactly what happened in that scenario. Hawke could have killed every single one of them if they didn't rebel because they are just a breeze in comparison to monstrosity Meredith was. They pissed their pants when Hawke looked at them.

[cjones91]

Please elaborate how every Templar, every single one of them is a zealot? Yes there was that one codex entry about how the order looks for loyal and pious recruits, but that doesn't immediately equate fanaticism.

It's a requirement for the job,every Templar must be suspicious of mages to the point where they are willing to kill if one got out of hand.That requires zealotry of some kind.

[cjones91]

The Templars could probably benefit from restricting their recruitment to just hard boiled detectives who secretly have hearts of gold

Or simply recruit people like Evangeline and Gregor who aren't zealous in their duty as Templar and are willing to question their fellow brothers and sisters if they act beyond their authority.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's a requirement for the job,every Templar must be suspicious of mages to the point where they are willing to kill if one got out of hand.That requires zealotry of some kind.

Damn thanks for that if templars were like Thrask we would fight abomnations for entire game.

[Sir DeLoria]

You mean at the last minute when it meant absolute pure ****? What were they doing for several years? Ironically Cullen has quote "albeit last minute change of heart" that's exactly what happened in that scenario. Hawke could have killed every single one of them if they didn't rebel because they are just a breeze in comparison to monstrosity Meredith was. They pissed their pants when Hawke looked at them.

Egad!! How dare they be loyal and honorable?! Yes, they should've rebelled at slightest hint of extemism from their command.

Your argument is absolutely unrealistic.

[BloodKaiden]

Hmm as i said you approach it too emotionally but many peoples do so well.

Also in what way sink?

 

But who will protect the world if they drop dead?

 

Umm, I don't believe accepting that you basically want to commit genocide on a group of people "too emotional".  I'm actually very cool and calm in my response. The type of templars you are suggesting is very ridiculous and short-sighted. But nothing I say will change your mind so you can go on with the whole "BLOOD MAGIC! KILL ALL THE MAGES, ANNUAL THE CIRCLE!" for the actions of a few individuals.

 

Templars do not protect the world. They are agents of a system that suppresses mages for a belief system that is common to most but not all of Thedas. Mages have power and people fear those who have more power than they do. This has always been a fact. 

 

If I was born a mage just because I have power does not mean I want to use that said power to destroy all those around me. Being an apostate does not make one evil. Example: Hawke, Bethany, and Morrigan. It makes them human beings who have decided that they don't want to spend their lives in the circle for a faith they may or may not even believe in.

 

There is power in choices and when a systems takes the power of choice away from individuals it is corrupt in my eyes.    

[Master Warder Z_]

Also its not as simple as "everything was fine until fire nation attacked". As a society many mages probably opposed the idea of mass fade entering but the stronger party who had the blessing of old gods obviously won and they did it. Again citizens and other mages of Tevinter hold no blame, you cannot judge a people by their government especially not by their past government! Because the Tevinter government has changed. The imperial chantry blames the old gods for darkspawn and not the mages and they got the right idea in this matter.

 

Speculation, Speculation, and hindsight.

 

And also the Tevinter system changed because the old system was brought down by varied groups who had one thing in common, they were sick of the Tevinter system.

 

So do i blame the population in its entirity? do i blame the slaves whose blood was let loose to fuel that portal to hell? No, Do i blame the people who had their fortunes and lives ripped away by the taxes used to buy mountains of lyrium to open it? No, But do i blame the culture that enabled it? Definitely.

 

The belief of Magocracy was as much a party to second sin as any Magister who took part in the ritual.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Also its not as simple as "everything was fine until fire nation attacked". As a society many mages probably opposed the idea of mass fade entering but the stronger party who had the blessing of old gods obviously won and they did it. Again citizens and other mages of Tevinter hold no blame, you cannot judge a people by their government especially not by their past government! Because the Tevinter government has changed. The imperial chantry blames the old gods for darkspawn and not the mages and they got the right idea in this matter.

 

 

Please, indulge me in how their government has changed. They are still a Social Darwinist magocracy fueled by the slave trade.

[Sir DeLoria]

It's a requirement for the job,every Templar must be suspicious of mages to the point where they are willing to kill if one got out of hand.That requires zealotry of some kind.

They need to be, otherwise the system wouldn't work and being suspicious is not the same as being a zealot.

[cjones91]

Damn thanks for that if templars were like Thrask we would fight abomnations for entire game.

That's why the Templars need to put their views on magic aside in order to do their job.

[Master Warder Z_]

Please, indulge me in how their government has changed. They are still a Social Darwinist magocracy fueled by the slave trade.

 

They were quiet about it for a few centuries.

 

That's about it, Apart from that? their little empire crumbled into the sea and left them only with Tevinter, that was another positive change!

 

But not any they implemented...Honestly the only changes that came to the Imperium were the result of Andraste's invasion.

[cjones91]

They need to be, otherwise the system wouldn't work and being suspicious is not the same as being a zealot.

It is when the jailers think of their prisoners as less than human and when their belief system condemns the latter.

[cjones91]

 

Please, indulge me in how their government has changed. They are still a Social Darwinist magocracy fueled by the slave trade.

For a time the Magisters were ousted from power,but slowly they started taking it back.A shame really.

[Master Warder Z_]

It is when the jailers think of their prisoners as less than human and when their belief system condemns the latter.

 

Well to be fair, the opposite belief is common elsewhere.

[Sir DeLoria]

It is when the jailers think of their prisoners as less than human and when their belief system condemns the latter.

Yeah, because prisoners have the power to summon demons and/or become possessed by demons.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Umm, I don't believe accepting that you basically want to commit genocide on a group of people "too emotional".  I'm actually very cool and calm in my response. The type of templars you are suggesting is very ridiculous and short-sighted. But nothing I say will change your mind so you can go on with the whole "BLOOD MAGIC! KILL ALL THE MAGES, ANNUAL THE CIRCLE!" for the actions of a few individuals.

 

Templars do not protect the world. They are agents of a system that suppresses mages for a belief system that is common to most but not all of Thedas. Mages have power and people fear those who have more power than they do. This has always been a fact. 

 

If I was born a mage just because I have power does not mean I want to use that said power to destroy all those around me. Being an apostate does not make one evil. Example: Hawke, Bethany, and Morrigan. It makes them human beings who have decided that they don't want to spend their lives in the circle for a faith they may or may not even believe in.

 

There is power in choices and when a systems takes the power of choice away from individuals it is corrupt in my eyes.    

 

Well for me it sound rather emotional than not.This is more than just whether they want cause damage or not as even devs said mages are walking bombs and they are always them regardless of their views ,morality and intentions they regularly cause disasters and circle can't prevent them as we see very often.So it is not "evil" or "good" it simple you are a bomb and you need to be defused.Peoples have very good reason to fear mages and mages love prove they are right.

 

There is power in choices and when a systems takes the power of choice away from individuals it is corrupt in my eyes.   
So well every system is corrupted then as every society limits your freedom.    

[Lulupab]

 
Please, indulge me in how their government has changed. They are still a Social Darwinist magocracy fueled by the slave trade.

Uhh after the utter failure at the siege of minrathous and capture of Andraste and her death the Tevinter already became Andrastian and Magisters were no longer the rulers of Imperium. In 3:87 Towers, the Imperium split from the Andrastian Chantry and formed its own Imperial Chantry under a mage, Divine Valhail. The Black Age and Exalted Age saw several Exalted Marches ordered against the Tevinter Imperium by the White Divine when tensions between the Orlesian and Imperial Chantries grew heated but all of marching armies were defeated and Tevinter suffered a lot as well.

Now its ruled by the divine and Magisters are just power holders, much like the bannorn of Ferelden or the Teryns. But they don't rule Tevinter.

[cjones91]

Yeah, because prisoners have the power to summon demons and/or become possessed by demons.

So that justifies treating them like monsters then?People with unequal power over others tend to be overzealous,which is why the old system fell apart.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So that justifies treating them like monsters then?People with unequal power over others tend to be overzealous,which is why the old system fell apart.

Yes pretty much better safe than sorry.

[cjones91]

Yes pretty much better safe than sorry.

And we've all seen the results of that approach.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Uhh after the utter failure at the siege of minrathous and capture of Andraste and her death the Tevinter already became Andrastian and Magisters were no longer the rulers of Imperium. In 3:87 Towers, the Imperium split from the Andrastian Chantry and formed its own Imperial Chantry under a mage, Divine Valhail. The Black Age and Exalted Age saw several Exalted Marches ordered against the Tevinter Imperium by the White Divine when tensions between the Orlesian and Imperial Chantries grew heated but all of marching armies were defeated and Tevinter suffered a lot as well.

Now its ruled by the divine and Magisters are just power holders, much like the bannorn of Ferelden or the Teryns. But they don't rule Tevinter.

So basically any positive change, which was done by the Chantry and the Templars btw, was undone the moment the Magisters were allowed to be Magisters again and they changed everything back to the old ways. That's not what I would call "the government has changed". 

 

And saying the Magisters don't rule Tevinter is like saying Antiva isn't ruled by the Merchant Princes and Princesses. Officially, yes but everyone knows who really holds the reins.