518 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

So that justifies treating them like monsters then?People with unequal power over others tend to be overzealous,which is why the old system fell apart.

 

Fell apart? Hardly.

 

It will return, because that is what the world will demand.

[cjones91]

Fell apart? Hardly.

 

It will return, because that is what the world will demand.

The old system will never return,that much is obvious.A new one will take it's place.

[TheKomandorShepard]

And we've all seen the results of that approach.

That what we have seen were ineffective half-measures smart reasons not so smart solution.

[Master Warder Z_]

The old system will never return,that much is obvious.A new one will take it's place.

 

Obvious to who? People who disagree with it? Failing to realize that a thousand years of tradition, of having magic kept away from the common people is just going to disappear inside a year or two?

 

I guess Bioware could do a handwave at something to that effect, but it certainly wouldn't be something i'd consider plausible really.

[cjones91]

Obvious to who? People who disagree with it? Failing to realize that a thousand years of tradition, of having magic kept away from the common people is just going to disappear inside a year or two?

 

I guess Bioware could do a handwave at something to that effect, but it certainly wouldn't be something i'd consider plausible really.

Obvious to anyone who could see the cracks forming before all hell broke loose.Unchecked Templar abuses of power,a Knight Commander that illegally usurped leadership in Kirkwall which is forbidden among the Templar Order.

 

Mages rebelling along with the Templars/Seekers and so on.The old system is dead,and hopefully a better one comes to fruition.

[cjones91]

Obvious to who? People who disagree with it? Failing to realize that a thousand years of tradition, of having magic kept away from the common people is just going to disappear inside a year or two?

 

I guess Bioware could do a handwave at something to that effect, but it certainly wouldn't be something i'd consider plausible really.

Double Post.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Obvious to anyone who could see the cracks forming before all hell broke loose.Unchecked Templar abuses of power,a Knight Commander that illegally usurped leadership in Kirkwall which is forbidden among the Templar Order.

 

Mages rebelling along with the Templars/Seekers and so on.The old system is dead,and hopefully a better one comes to fruition.

Hate to say it, but Tevinter has had countless slave revolts and nothing has changed so the system staying as it was before the Mage-Templar War is definitely a possibility. 

[Sir DeLoria]

So that justifies treating them like monsters then?People with unequal power over others tend to be overzealous,which is why the old system fell apart.

No I don't think it does, but sometimes harsh methods are necessary.

Well, what'n the alternative solution?

[Lulupab]

So basically any positive change, which was done by the Chantry and the Templars btw, was undone the moment the Magisters were allowed to be Magisters again and they changed everything back to the old ways. That's not what I would call "the government has changed". 
 
And saying the Magisters don't rule Tevinter is like saying Antiva isn't ruled by the Merchant Princes and Princesses. Officially, yes but everyone knows who really holds the reins.

Actually it was only chantry, during these events the Templar order was not invented yet and Templar order became a thing in Tevinter much later and they are literally attack dogs and the Magisters hold their chain. One thing to consider however with all that excess use of blood magic and simply magic in general there is no recorded big incident that has to do with possession in Tevinter. You'd think it would happen in Tevinter. So this means either the Tevinter system is equal to southern system in matters of security or its better.

[BloodKaiden]

Well for me it sound rather emotional than not.This is more than just whether they want cause damage or not as even devs said mages are walking bombs and they are always them regardless of their views ,morality and intentions they regularly cause disasters and circle can't prevent them as we see very often.So it is not "evil" or "good" it simple you are a bomb and you need to be defused.Peoples have very good reason to fear mages and mages love prove they are right.

 

There is power in choices and when a systems takes the power of choice away from individuals it is corrupt in my eyes.   
So well every system is corrupted then as every society limits your freedom.    

 

All mages do not regulary cause disasters. Who did Bethany, Hawke, or Morrigan hurt on a vast scale that resulted from being mages and not being a member of a Circle of Magi. They didn't have the Circle's so-called 'teachings' and did just fine on their own. It depends on the mage in question, you can be a 'walking bomb' and NOT go off. Do people have a reason to fear mages? Certainly. The same can be said for anything in Thedas, the templars, the crows, the quanri. In my experience from the games the only mages who 'proved them right' as you say have all been mages of the Circe of Magi...hmmm I wonder why that is? It couldn't possibly be the treatment of the templars, chantry, and their system as a whole.

 

Exactly, but not to the level that is shown in Thedas when it comes to the mages and elves.    

[Sir DeLoria]

Actually it was only chantry, during these events the Templar order was not invented yet and Templar order became a thing in Tevinter much later and they are literally attack dogs and the Magisters hold their chain. One thing to consider however with all that excess use of blood magic and simply magic in general there is no recorded big incident that has to do with possession in Tevinter. You'd think it would happen in Tevinter. So this means either the Tevinter system is equal to southern system in matters of security or its better.

We know very little of Tevinter, so that's mostly speculation.

Also I'm of the opinion that one big incident every few centuries is far better than thousands of sacrificed slaves and a state system that is evil and ruthless to the very core.

[Lulupab]

Hate to say it, but Tevinter has had countless slave revolts and nothing has changed so the system staying as it was before the Mage-Templar War is definitely a possibility.

SO you do accept mages are fancy slaves? Nice rooms, nice clothes but still slaves, waiting to die or called upon to fight in a war. What can a mage do in circle beside that?

Regardless there have been no revolt this grand in history of Thedas since Andraste. So it cannot be compared.

[Master Warder Z_]

 So this means either the Tevinter system is equal to southern system in matters of security or its better.

 

It doesn't have to mean either.

 

It could just mean that somehow news from a place thousands of miles away hasn't filtered down to Fereldan or Kirkwall, seriously there isn't even a newspaper present in any nation so far and people expect events to reach them?

 

News travels with the people going to and forth from the various nations, Just because something hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and given that Fenris states they do in fact have the rite of annulment in Tevinter, that indicates abominations have been an issue before.

 

You don't destroy a circle and kill every mage within on a whim after all.

[Lulupab]

We know very little of Tevinter, so that's mostly speculation.
Also I'm of the opinion that one big incident every few centuries is far better than thousands of sacrificed slaves and a state system that is evil and ruthless to the very core.

I meant magical security and not slave revolts. In other words mages are either doing equally or a better job than Templars in controlling themselves.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Actually it was only chantry, during these events the Templar order was not invented yet and Templar order became a thing in Tevinter much later and they are literally attack dogs and the Magisters hold their chain. One thing to consider however with all that excess use of blood magic and simply magic in general there is no recorded big incident that has to do with possession in Tevinter. You'd think it would happen in Tevinter. So this means either the Tevinter system is equal to southern system in matters of security or its better.

Or Tevinter is just very good at censoring information.

 

SO you do accept mages are fancy slaves? Nice rooms, nice clothes but still slaves, waiting to die or called upon to fight in a war. What can a mage do in circle beside that?

Regardless there have been no revolt this grand in history of Thedas since Andraste. So it cannot be compared.

No, I was just pointing out that when those who are abused rebel it does not always go their way. 

 

And depends what you mean by 'grand'. How many mages are there in Thedas? 

[cjones91]

Hate to say it, but Tevinter has had countless slave revolts and nothing has changed so the system staying as it was before the Mage-Templar War is definitely a possibility. 

Tevinter has different societal and cultural structures than the rest of Theda.Their society is based off of the concept that power is everything and might makes right.

[Master Warder Z_]

Obvious to anyone who could see the cracks forming before all hell broke loose.

 

A Scarce handful of examples in it's entire thousand year history? It was bound to happen, Beyond that this doesn't indicate anything about Thedas accepting mages outside of circles, which given the attitude towards Magic in Thedas isn't likely to happen anyway.

 

This isn't taking a circle from chantry authority and granting it independence, this is unchecked magic across Thedas, it would never be accepted.

[Lulupab]

Or Tevinter is just very good at censoring information.
 

No, I was just pointing out that when those who are abused rebel it does not always go their way. 
 
And depends what you mean by 'grand'. How many mages are there in Thedas?

Asunder and following events mentions thousands of mages gathering at Andorhal's reach. (or whatever its called)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Asunder and following events mentions thousands of mages gathering at Andorhal's reach. (or whatever its called)

If it is only a few thousand, then many grand revolts have happened between Andraste and now. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Tevinter has different societal and cultural structures than the rest of Theda.Their society is based off of the concept that power is everything and might makes right.

 

And Thedas is still wary of Magic due to the Imperium, Blights and issues that come from mages.

 

You are talking about introducing something that has been locked away for a thousand years, was responsible for the coming of the blights and darkspawn and allowing it among the commoners, if nothing else it would be humorous to see if it ever happened, because i think it would result in some very wide spread anti magic demostrations, but apart from that, humor value i really can't see much appeal.

[Lulupab]

A Scarce handful of examples in it's entire thousand year history? It was bound to happen, Beyond that this doesn't indicate anything about Thedas accepting mages outside of circles, which given the attitude towards Magic in Thedas isn't likely to happen anyway.
 
This isn't taking a circle from chantry authority and granting it independence, this is unchecked magic across Thedas, it would never be accepted.

Fiona, who as grand Enchanter is leader of rebellion until she dies or steps down or something had the intention of granting circles autonomy, not total freedom. Templars should be police force they always meant to be and ultimately mages have every say on how things work in circles. Templars are there to fight accidents and disasters, nothing more, nothing less. Without Lambert's zealotry it could have been done peacefully.

[Master Warder Z_]

If it is only a few thousand, then many grand revolts have happened between Andraste and now. 

 

And there are many more Templars then there are mages, numeric superiority doesn't always equate with victory of course but i'd suspect that there are like to be ten or more templars for every mage rebelling.

[Lulupab]

If it is only a few thousand, then many grand revolts have happened between Andraste and now.

but the scale wasn't worldwide in them. Number of rebels is not that important because there will be many people who will pick sides.

[cjones91]

And Thedas is still wary of Magic due to the Imperium, Blights and issues that come from mages.

 

You are talking about introducing something that has been locked away for a thousand years, was responsible for the coming of the blights and darkspawn and allowing it among the commoners, if nothing else it would be humorous to see if it ever happened, because i think it would result in some very wide spread anti magic demostrations, but apart from that, humor value i really can't see much appeal.

The Templars are pretty much ruined any good will they had when the RT began attacking villages and killing people.The common people won't give a damn either way as long as both groups are brought under control.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fiona, who as grand Enchanter is leader of rebellion until she dies or steps down or something had the intention of granting circles autonomy, not total freedom. Templars should be police force they always meant to be and ultimately mages have every say on how things work in circles. Templars are there to fight accidents and disasters, nothing more, nothing less. Without Lambert's zealotry it could have been done peacefully.

I hope Fiona lives. 

 

And I like this proposal, albeit added to what I think the Templars should do.