518 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

And there are many more Templars then there are mages, numeric superiority doesn't always equate with victory of course but i'd suspect that there are like to be ten or more templars for every mage rebelling.

There are red templars, Templar faction does not have a sole leader and is lead by knight commanders of each region so there is a high chance they are divided, not to mention the lack of Lyrium will cause problems as well. Even the Chantry has fell apart and the chantries across Thedas are no longer united. At best Templars outnumber mages five to one.

[TheKomandorShepard]

All mages do not regulary cause disasters. Who did Bethany, Hawke, or Morrigan hurt on a vast scale that resulted from being mages and not being a member of a Circle of Magi. They didn't have the Circle's so-called 'teachings' and did just fine on their own. It depends on the mage in question, you can be a 'walking bomb' and NOT go off. Do people have a reason to fear mages? Certainly. The same can be said for anything in Thedas, the templars, the crows, the quanri. In my experience from the games the only mages who 'proved them right' as you say have all been mages of the Circe of Magi...hmmm I wonder why that is? It couldn't possibly be the treatment of the templars, chantry, and their system as a whole.

 

Exactly, but not to the level that is shown in Thedas when it comes to the mages and elves.    

But many do and many can and there is no way to say who will and who will or won't cause disaster so it is gamble where you only can lose if you try play in it.Hawke was protagonist Bethany didn't caused disaster yet and morrigan was stupid evil and she didn't caused disaster because she was under warden command with her views you need only wait to she cause something.Oh hawke and bethany had circle teachings because they were taught by their father who was former circle mage.

 

It doesn't rly matter you have no idea who will or not explode if you take a risk you can only lose in that game as i said.All of them were circle mages? Zathrian , velanna , merril ,marethari and just look on tevinter and much more.

 

Society always remove peoples they don't want they are in prisons or worse.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Templars are pretty much ruined any good will they had when the RT began attacking villages and killing people.The common people won't give a damn either way as long as both groups are brought under control.

 

Yeah, that has been the response for a while ever since the hinterlands letter came around. It's ludicris to people, people forgetting that for a thousand years they kept magic from touching their lives? killing their families and obliterating their communities? Meanwhile at every sermon they attended, they heard of the vileness of magic?

 

I personally doubt that sentiment strongly, as i said news doesn't travel very well in this world, and Templars have been the Bulwark against Magic for a thousand years, add in their connection the various countries nobility and i can see the commoners supporting the people who protect them from magic.

 

Bioware can write this however they want though, i'd just point out that i think Cullen might have been bit overstating and dramatic of their issue back in Kirkwall, though admittedly i am half convinced there was something in the water there that just drove every one insane.

[Master Warder Z_]

There are red templars

 

And normal Templars, aka the ones who followed Lambert to carry out their actual duty rather then service a church that would betray them to appease mages.

 

But yeah, the Lambert faction Templars which were brought to Orlais in Asunder have been confirmed to be in game.

 

Devs confirmed it ages ago, hence my annoyance with the overstating of the red templars, yes they will be there, but there will actually be normal templars as well.

[cjones91]

Yeah, that has been the response for a while ever since the hinterlands letter came around. It's ludicris to people, people forgetting that for a thousand years they kept magic from touching their lives? killing their families and obliterating their communities? Meanwhile at every sermon they attended, they heard of the vileness of magic?

 

I personally doubt that sentiment strongly, as i said news doesn't travel very well in this world, and Templars have been the Bulwark against Magic for a thousand years, add in their connection the various countries nobility and i can see the commoners supporting the people who protect them from magic.

 

Bioware can write this however they want though, i'd just point out that i think Cullen might have been bit overstating and dramatic of their issue back in Kirkwall, though admittedly i am half convinced there was something in the water there that just drove every one insane.

But how will they get support when there's a rogue faction causing havoc among the populace?The Templars as a whole will get hit hard in terms of public image because the commoners will view them with disdain and suspicion.

[Lulupab]

And normal Templars, aka the ones who followed Lambert to carry out their actual duty rather then service a church that would betray them to appease mages.
 
But yeah, the Lambert faction Templars which were brought to Orlais in Asunder have been confirmed to be in game.
 
Devs confirmed it ages ago, hence my annoyance with the overstating of the red templars, yes they will be there, but there will actually be normal templars as well.

Of course there will be normal Templars but the reasons I mentioned will make the war pretty balanced. As Templars always depend on numbers to win against mages anyway. Out of all the mage vs Templar wars we have seen so far, Templars usually lose initially when the numbers are roughly balanced, at this point either mages flee or Templars come with reinforcements and outnumber the mages greatly. They won't have this much of an advantage anymore and Mages can win second rounds as well hence the war is balanced. I would expect no less because it wouldn't be interesting.

[HiroVoid]

SO you do accept mages are fancy slaves? Nice rooms, nice clothes but still slaves, waiting to die or called upon to fight in a war. What can a mage do in circle beside that?

Regardless there have been no revolt this grand in history of Thedas since Andraste. So it cannot be compared.

Gaider doesn't seem to consider them slaves anyway.  Here's the actual post (Gaider post on page) and the thread for interpretation.

 

http://forum.bioware...spoilers/page-8

[LobselVith8]

Umm...

 

 

Given how Corypheus' dialogue about the City has lead to debates about whether it was Black before the Magisters arrived, calling into question whether or not the Magisters were even the first darkspawn, I don't think we can point to Corypheus as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn or even the Blight.

[HiroVoid]

Given how Corypheus' dialogue about the City has lead to debates about whether it was Black before the Magisters arrived, calling into question whether or not the Magisters were even the first darkspawn, I don't think we can point to Corypheus as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn or even the Blight.

Since he thought the city was at least supposed to be gold, that pretty much only leaves me to see two explanations.

 

1. The city was gold before as he saw it in the fade like people do now (except now its black), and his act of going there at least got rid of some form of illusion of the city being gold that permanently changed the city.

2. The city wasn't located at the center of the fade until after they got there, and they were simply told it was gold.

 

Either way, something changed after their visit there, and as far as I can tell, Corypheus took on darkspawn traits making some form of connection between the city and the taint.

[LobselVith8]

SO you do accept mages are fancy slaves? Nice rooms, nice clothes but still slaves, waiting to die or called upon to fight in a war. What can a mage do in circle beside that?

Regardless there have been no revolt this grand in history of Thedas since Andraste. So it cannot be compared.

 

The mindset of the the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery is certainly going to be an issue for some people - it's condemned as slavery by Anders and pro-mage Hawke, some entries by scholars use language that invokes the same mindset (like the entry about Adain of Starkhaven, who thought it was "better to die a free man than remain a servant to the Chantry"), and Aldenon the Wise, who famously proclaimed: “A civilization cannot be civil if it condones the slavery of another. And that is what this Circle is! But by accident of birth, those mages would be free to live, love, and die as they choose. The Circles will break - if it be one year, a decade, a century, or beyond. Tyrants always fall, and the downtrodden always strive for freedom!”

[Master Warder Z_]

Given how Corypheus' dialogue about the City has lead to debates about whether it was Black before the Magisters arrived, calling into question whether or not the Magisters were even the first darkspawn, I don't think we can point to Corypheus as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn or even the Blight.

 

Given the Magisters opened the door to corruption you can point to them as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn coming to thedas and thus the Blights.

[Senya]

Given how Corypheus' dialogue about the City has lead to debates about whether it was Black before the Magisters arrived, calling into question whether or not the Magisters were even the first darkspawn, I don't think we can point to Corypheus as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn or even the Blight.

With all due respect, it confirmed they entered the Fade seeking power and brought the Taint back with them to Thedas. I see no proof of anyone having the Taint before them.

[Master Warder Z_]

The mindset of the the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery is certainly going to be an issue for some people 

 

And Gaider himself said it wasn't anything like Slavery.

 

Got to love the writer of the lore coming out straight and stating it isn't that.

[Lulupab]

Given the Magisters opened the door to corruption you can point to them as definitive proof that the Magisters were responsible for the darkspawn coming to thedas and thus the Blights.

Yet without the Tevinter's blood magic and knowledge of blood in general we wouldn't have grey wardens now. Check WOT if you doubt this.

[LobselVith8]

Since he thought the city was at least supposed to be gold, that pretty much only leaves me to see two explanations.

 

1. The city was gold before as he saw it in the fade like people do now (except now its black), and his act of going there at least got rid of some form of illusion of the city being gold that permanently changed the city.

2. The city wasn't located at the center of the fade until after they got there, and they were simply told it was gold.

 

Either way, something changed after their visit there, and as far as I can tell, Corypheus took on darkspawn traits making some form of connection between the city and the taint.

 

If Corypheus thought it was supposed to be Golden, but comments that this (apparently) wasn't the case, then there are more than two theories that could apply to what actually happened. There are a plethora of threads that debated the meaning of his words to no conclusive agreement. Frankly, no amount of conjecture and theory on the matter is going to make any particular speculation any more definitive than the next.

[BloodKaiden]

But many do and many can and there is no way to say who will and who will or won't cause disaster so it is gamble where you only can lose if you try play in it.Hawke was protagonist Bethany didn't caused disaster yet and morrigan was stupid evil and she didn't caused disaster because she was under warden command with her views you need only wait to she cause something.Oh hawke and bethany had circle teachings because they were taught by their father who was former circle mage.

 

It doesn't rly matter you have no idea who will or not explode if you take a risk you can only lose in that game as i said.All of them were circle mages? Zathrian , velanna , merril ,marethari and just look on tevinter and much more.

 

Society always remove peoples they don't want they are in prisons or worse.

 

What does being the protagonist have to do with anything? If you take Hawke as a mage then he is still a mage. I was a blood mage in DA: O but I didn't go on a massive killing spree when the options presented themselves and it wasn't played upon at all with the completion of that game that a Blood mage/Grey Warden killed the Archdemon which still bugs me. Bethany didn't cause disaster because she is a good person and not at all likely to harm anyone despite also being a mage. You really need to stop looking at a mage as just another mage and see them for the person that they are. I have no idea where you even got that from Morrigan...how exactly is she stupid evil? If anything she is one of the most capable mages we have met. She even says she bares the templars no ill well when they hunted her as she understands they are doing what they believe. She didn't cause disaster because why would she? She even saves the Grey Wardens from death with the ritual at the end of the game. How is this evil?

 

Forgot about the circle teachings with Hawke and Bethany so I stand corrected. So it is possible to recieve study in magic outside a Circle of Magi and not be a raging lunatic who tries to kill everyone around them then? Good to see we can agree on that. In all fairness, I can't look on Tevinter as we haven't been there yet but I suspect there are mages there who don't support the slavery of elves or use of demons to get ahead.

 

So do you blames the mages for resisting a society that wants to turn them Tranquil on a whim or lock them in prison for simply being born a mage? It's all about survival, although I've always been in the mindset of if someone comes wishing me hurt I have a right to defend myself no matter the circumstance. If the Templars came to take away my sister and I'm not a mage I would resist them. No order/organization should have the right to kick in your door when you are innocent of any crime.

[Senya]

Yet without the Tevinter's blood magic and knowledge of blood in general we wouldn't have grey wardens now. Check WOT if you doubt this.

So they helped find a partial solution for a problem they caused?

[TheJediSaint]

Yet without the Tevinter's blood magic and knowledge of blood in general we wouldn't have grey wardens now. Check WOT if you doubt this.

There wouldn't have been a need for the Grey Wardens in the first place if the Magisters didn't play with blood magic.

[Lulupab]

So they helped find a partial solution for a problem they caused?

"THEY". You mean the old gods and their puppet mages not Tevinter as a whole.

[LobselVith8]

With all due respect, it confirmed they entered the Fade seeking power and brought the Taint back with them to Thedas. I see no proof of anyone having the Taint before them.

 

It's confirmed that the Magisters entered the City; it's never been clarified if the City was already Black, or whether or not they were definitively the first darkspawn. It's why we have people who have debated and theorized about what actually happened in a number of threads.

[Master Warder Z_]

"THEY". You mean the old gods and their puppet mages not Tevinter as a whole.

 

You mean the society that encouraged and enabled their actions, I think THEY is appropriate when it comes to Tevinter.

[LobselVith8]

And Gaider himself said it wasn't anything like Slavery.

 

Technically, the Chantry controlled Circles are actually reminiscent of slavery practiced outside of the United States - opulent clothes, an education, having no freedom and living in servitude to another. However, that wasn't the point of my statement - it's the fact that some people condemn the institution of the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery that could potentially be an issue.

[Lulupab]

You mean the society that encouraged and enabled their actions, I think THEY is appropriate when it comes to Tevinter.

Speculation. Tevinter society or any Thedas society in general is absolutely powerless against corruption of its leaders. Citation: Loghain, Meredith. Unless you have the power to bring them down you can't do anything about it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Technically, the Chantry controlled Circles are actually reminiscent of slavery practiced outside of the United States - opulent clothes, an education, having no freedom and living in servitude to another. However, that wasn't the point of my statement - it's the fact that some people condemn the institution of the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery that could potentially be an issue.

Define "having no freedom", because they seemed to exercise plenty of freedoms to me. Also servitude, because I dont see anywhere where mages are owned by another person or are discussed as objects and not persons.

[Senya]

It's confirmed that the Magisters entered the City; it's never been clarified if the City was already Black, or whether or not they were definitively the first darkspawn. It's why we have people who have debated and theorized about what actually happened in a number of threads.

There is no proof there were earlier darkspawn. As far as Canon and the wiki is concerned, the magisters are the first darkspawn. The burden of proof is on people who argue there were darkspawn before the magisters.