34 réponses à ce sujet

[rocsage]

There were many other abilities such as lightning ball (saarebas) and hemorrhage (blood mages) that would kill your party. Although the title does say "fireball" this word choose was because it is a common cliché for an enemy action that results in a party being one-shotted/instant killed.

 

What I’m saying is that the propose of this thread was to assess the issue of cutscenes, party response times and unwanted repositioning of characters.

1

the aoes always have considerable cast time, which allows the party members to respond no matter where they are....unless the party consists of fenris, aveline, carver and dual-wield hawke enclosed on a platform.

even in dragon age-origins/awakening, fireball's greatest threat was never damage; the knockdown is what kills by incapacitating multiple characters.from afar.

the point is, that *something horrible* is avoidable in, as far as I can remember at the moment, all scenarios other than awakening final boss fight, in which the mother knocks down everyone and drains mana to zero.

[Sheori]

the aoes always have considerable cast time, which allows the party members to respond no matter where they are....unless the party consists of fenris, aveline, carver and dual-wield hawke enclosed on a platform.

even in dragon age-origins/awakening, fireball's greatest threat was never damage; the knockdown is what kills by incapacitating multiple characters.from afar.

the point is, that *something horrible* is avoidable in, as far as I can remember at the moment, all scenarios other than awakening final boss fight, in which the mother knocks down everyone and drains mana to zero.

 

In DA2 the combat became very fast and AOEs are also among them that changed. Now the OP did mention that he/she is addressing response time. Primary it seems that their question is about DAI having fast combat as in DA2 where you do NOT have much time to reposition your people or not. Also, i should state she/he is addressing bioware in the post.

 

I also agree with the OP that there were many times, the Blackpowder Promise Quest with the fight with the quari at the end is very much one of these, where the group is put into combat and the enemies get first shot. This is because your party enters the room and has many line-of-sight problems. The enemies do not.

 

Now looking at your past post I need to ask why the picture? No clue how that relates to the OP statemeants or DA in general. As for scenarios that you found hard/easy I most also ask what difficulty are you and the OP playing on. In terms of DA2 i remember when the game first came out, before that 1st patch, the top difficulty was HARD!!! I mean there was no time to repoistion you had to act. After the patch it was much easier.

 

OP i agree that bioware should not reposition our party after cutscense and they should allow for time for repositioning/response. Now, if the setting is on normal i very much agree that needs to be address, but on nightmare…well…maybe that is why it’s called nightmare/hardcore. Either way your questions are to bioware but thought you'll like to know my views too.

[rocsage]

In DA2 the combat became very fast and AOEs are also among them that changed. Now the OP did mention that he/she is addressing response time. Primary it seems that their question is about DAI having fast combat as in DA2 where you do NOT have much time to reposition your people or not. Also, i should state she/he is addressing bioware in the post.

 

I also agree with the OP that there were many times, the Blackpowder Promise Quest with the fight with the quari at the end is very much one of these, where the group is put into combat and the enemies get first shot. This is because your party enters the room and has many line-of-sight problems. The enemies do not.

 

Now looking at your past post I need to ask why the picture? No clue how that relates to the OP statemeants or DA in general. As for scenarios that you found hard/easy I most also ask what difficulty are you and the OP playing on. In terms of DA2 i remember when the game first came out, before that 1st patch, the top difficulty was HARD!!! I mean there was no time to repoistion you had to act. After the patch it was much easier.

 

OP i agree that bioware should not reposition our party after cutscense and they should allow for time for repositioning/response. Now, if the setting is on normal i very much agree that needs to be address, but on nightmare…well…maybe that is why it’s called nightmare/hardcore. Either way your questions are to bioware but thought you'll like to know my views too.

In DA2, the sky troopers and mages virtually nullify concepts such as terrain and positioning; placing you in the middle of enemy swarm doesn't make that much of a difference.

The goal becomes regrouping your own/segmenting enemy bands, which are concepts entirely different from positioning.

I have no idea what you mean by how, for example, enemies during black powder promise "get first shot", please elaborate.

As for the picture, it means a very adamant rebuttal, similar to the buzzer you'd hear at game shows.

If you're curious about difficulty, I've played through da2 nightmare with only black emporium dlc, and have gone through dao on nightmare as well.

[Sidney]

Can't agree with you more.  It's so frustrating to queue everyone into position going into an encounter only to have the cutscene rearrange everyone, then have the enemy spellcaster fireball or the archer scattershot before anyone has time to react.  There's always the reload option for when the initial crushing prison takes out the healer, but giving players a chance to react at the same time as the enemy would make a nice change.

 

 

It is more the whole draw the entire party into the room thing. Yes, they will start dropping abilities on you but if I wasn't standing in the middle of the kill zone it wouldn't be such a bother. There are people that I don't want to have a conversation with. I know how it will end.

[In Exile]

In DA2, the sky troopers and mages virtually nullify concepts such as terrain and positioning; placing you in the middle of enemy swarm doesn't make that much of a difference.

The goal becomes regrouping your own/segmenting enemy bands, which are concepts entirely different from positioning.

I have no idea what you mean by how, for example, enemies during black powder promise "get first shot", please elaborate.

As for the picture, it means a very adamant rebuttal, similar to the buzzer you'd hear at game shows.

If you're curious about difficulty, I've played through da2 nightmare with only black emporium dlc, and have gone through dao on nightmare as well.

 

You're wrong. The DA2 approach makes terrain and position even more important, because you've got a constant stream of mooks. Tactically retreating to chokepoints to create kill-zones for the on-rush of enemies becomes even more valuable, because there are a lot of enemies. In DA:O you could get away with a stand-up fight often, because the numbers were even. In DA2, you either had to abuse the aggro-taunt mechanics, or retreat and use chokepoints. 

[rocsage]

You're wrong. The DA2 approach makes terrain and position even more important, because you've got a constant stream of mooks. Tactically retreating to chokepoints to create kill-zones for the on-rush of enemies becomes even more valuable, because there are a lot of enemies. In DA:O you could get away with a stand-up fight often, because the numbers were even. In DA2, you either had to abuse the aggro-taunt mechanics, or retreat and use chokepoints. 

if you insist that linear distance between your units and enemy units is, at the aggregate level, a type of positioning, then you're right.

"we're not retreating, we're advancing in a different direction"

http://www.wowhead.c...erent-direction

[rocsage]

as a thought, an idea comes to mind:

maybe have the game pause again whenever reinforcements arrive?

Medan was a sneaky one.

With mages, you just kill/incapacitate them as soon as possible; time spent running around is time wasted not unloading on the glass cannon.

[Gtdef]

Max Payne 3 had a great transition from cutscene to gameplay, although it's a different kind of game and it's easier to be done, I think the principle can be applied. Basically, when the cutscene would lead to combat, the camera would slowly end up in normal gameplay position (third person view), and you could pick it up from there.

 

Like this 

http://youtu.be/IEFQIdXszdc?t=1m49s

 

Perhaps the last line of dialogue could work something like that in rpgs too. Camera doing an a fast overhead to show the battlefield and positioning of the enemies and rest at normal view, or stay overhead for tactical view perhaps.

 

Also there could be some predetermined settings that characters would do when cutscenes end, like rogues going automatically into stealth, ranged classes moving a bit further behind the melee and that could be tied to the tactics system.

 

Problem with DA games is that they use cutscenes a lot for dramatic effects and most of them are exaggerated and disconnected from the gameplay, so I don't think this has any chance of something like this being implemented.

[In Exile]

if you insist that linear distance between your units and enemy units is, at the aggregate level, a type of positioning, then you're right.

"we're not retreating, we're advancing in a different direction"

http://www.wowhead.c...erent-direction

 

That's literally the most basic and fundamental form of positioning, and about 99% of what positioning in every single cRPG of the last decade and a half revolved around. The really advanced ones have maybe a front-line and back line, or go all out with a front line, some form of a middle, and a back-line, and now we're in the realm of hyper advanced formations. 

 

Actual proper military formations and position is a notion as alien to RPGs as literacy is to chimpanzees. 

[rocsage]

That's literally the most basic and fundamental form of positioning, and about 99% of what positioning in every single cRPG of the last decade and a half revolved around. The really advanced ones have maybe a front-line and back line, or go all out with a front line, some form of a middle, and a back-line, and now we're in the realm of hyper advanced formations. 

 

Actual proper military formations and position is a notion as alien to RPGs as literacy is to chimpanzees. 

Show me "advancing in a different direction"'s application in origins, awakening or some other game as a normally viable strategy or its component

As for "...notion as alien...as literacy is to chimpanzees"

http://en.wikipedia..../Kanzi#Language