146 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcian]

Both ME1 and ME2 were worse off than ME3 in that regard.

 

In ME2 you spend most of the game solving daddy issues rather fighting the Collectors, and the entire plot of Mass Effect 1 is nonsensical. Saren blows his cover and exposes Sovereign by attacking Eden Prime to obtain a Prothean beacon he already had (Virmire) to find a Conduit he didn't need, to gain access to the Presidium that he and his Asari commandos already had full access to. All Saren needed to do was attack Citadel Control with his Asari commandos while Sovereign and the Geth attack the Citadel fleets. The element of surprise would be his and another extinction cycle would have gone on without a hitch. 

 

In retrospect I wonder if in an early draft of Mass Effect Saren wasn't a Spectre. If Saren isn't a Spectre, his needing the Conduit might make sense. 

What if instead of Saren, it was his brother Desolas who was the main villain of ME1? Just a thought.

[von uber]

Having sex in awkward positions is rather intriguing IMO. Maybe I've read the Kama Sutra too many times, but the standard man-on-top missionary under-the-covers with lights out is just plain not fun.

 

Trust me young one, it gets less fun as you get older.

 

 

Well, given the promotional material for ME2 seemed to focus exclusively on Miranda as an LI, and prior to ME3 Sheploo was the only acknowledged Shepard, then yeah, I'd say that I'm correct. Hell, even the trailers for FemShep in ME3 are just the same ones with Femshep replacing Sheploo. As are most of the gameplay trailers.

 

That just says more about the shitty Bioware marketing though; but it doesn't derail my point about it being aimed at 14 year olds..

 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Having sex in awkward positions is rather intriguing IMO. Maybe I've read the Kama Sutra too many times, but the standard man-on-top missionary under-the-covers with lights out is just plain not fun.

 

I thought you meant missionary... only like on top of a car.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Trust me young one, it gets less fun as you get older.

 

 

That just says more about the shitty Bioware marketing though; but it doesn't derail my point about it being aimed at 14 year olds..

 

You wish old man. I like to get inventive and creative with the ladies I bring home. The spin cycle is my favorite.

 

I disagree with it being bad marketing. I'm fine if they establish it as it was with a focus on Sheploo. Plus, you'd wonder how'd they market it towards 14 year olds when it's an M-rated game.

[themikefest]

Well, given the promotional material for ME2 seemed to focus exclusively on Miranda as an LI, and prior to ME3 Sheploo was the only acknowledged Shepard, then yeah, I'd say that I'm correct. Hell, even the trailers for FemShep in ME3 are just the same ones with Femshep replacing Sheploo. As are most of the gameplay trailers.

The trailer for reinstating femshep was strictly for femshep and not maleshep

 

 

 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I thought you meant missionary... only like on top of a car.

 

No, no... Ow! That'd burn like a ****** if the engine was running! No, you do the reverse wheelbarrow on it.

 

Missionary is a very precise version of the Man-on-top. It's fine for lovemaking (itself a specific type) on the wedding night and not much else IMO.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

 

The trailer for reinstating femshep was strictly for femshep and not maleshep

 

 

Hence why I said most.

[themikefest]

Hence why I said most.

Sorry. My bad.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Sorry. My bad.

 

You're fine man, no need to apologize.

[jtav]

Well you don't *have* to have the mindset of a teen boy to like Miri's romance. Though I will admit to rewriting the whole thing in my head.

[von uber]

You wish old man. I like to get inventive and creative with the ladies I bring home. The spin cycle is my favorite.

 

Meh. You don't need to prove anything to me you know. And 34 is hardly 'old'.

 

 Plus, you'd wonder how'd they market it towards 14 year olds when it's an M-rated game.

 

Oh please, don't be naive.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Meh. You don't need to prove anything to me you know. And 34 is hardly 'old'.

 

 

Oh please, don't be naive.

 

Well in the U.S. anyway (and Canada), it's technically illegal to market adult content to minors (under 18). Since Mass Effect is judged to be a Mature-rated game (M-rated), it's not marketed towards people under 17.

[jtav]

No, but it is absolutely marketed with a juvenile view of sexuality that expects us to be both titillated and scandalized by Miranda's presentation. ME2 also goes further into the Bond/Kirk territory. I got the sense that Miranda was intended as a girl of the week, with the option of it being deeper if the player chose. Hence why Ash could replace her. It didn't matter who was providing the T&A as long as someone was.

[von uber]

No, but it is absolutely marketed with a juvenile view of sexuality that expects us to be both titillated and scandalized by Miranda's presentation. ME2 also goes further into the Bond/Kirk territory. I got the sense that Miranda was intended as a girl of the week, with the option of it being deeper if the player chose. Hence why Ash could replace her. It didn't matter who was providing the T&A as long as someone was.

 

Will you please stop reading my mind and expanding on points I deliberately just hint at

[jtav]

Will you please stop reading my mind and expanding on points I deliberately just hint at

I think it comes with being a woman in her 30s. Albeit one who is currently working on her canon Miranda romance playthrough.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

No, but it is absolutely marketed with a juvenile view of sexuality that expects us to be both titillated and scandalized by Miranda's presentation. ME2 also goes further into the Bond/Kirk territory. I got the sense that Miranda was intended as a girl of the week, with the option of it being deeper if the player chose. Hence why Ash could replace her. It didn't matter who was providing the T&A as long as someone was.

 

I'd agree with that, with some parts being ones I don't necessarily like.

 

I view Shepard a bit in that aspect to be sure, though I view Miranda more as Vesper Lynd sans the betrayal and death (which I inflect more onto Ashley). You do get the sense that Miranda was meant to be... more replaceable as an LI than any of the other female LI's in ME2. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I think it comes with being a woman in her 30s. Albeit one who is currently working on her canon Miranda romance playthrough.

 

I wouldn't say I hit the sweet spot being a male in my early-mid 20's (however you choose to define 24), who does have an admittedly juvenile outlook on sex (I like to sow my seeds and have a lot of fun doing it. It's about connections with others, however brief). Love can wait.

[goishen]

For ME:next my only wish is for a female squadmember with the personality of renegade femshep and who looks like a real soldier. Maybe a few scars too.

 

 

I can only wish that they'd bring back the psychotic biotic.  

[Han Shot First]

Did the game ever say he got the Virmire beacon before he visited the Eden Prime one (I think the post Liara recruitment dialogue done after Feros and Noveria, but before Virmire hints that he didn't); and assuming he did already have it, would it be too far of a stretch to assume Saren/Sovereign thought thought the Eden Prime beacon might possibly have different information, warranting the attack on the colony? If not for Shepard and friends he probably wouldn't have been exposed anyway. I also doubt Saren and the Asari commandos could hold off C-Sec and whatever other security installments long enough.

 

All of this is assuming he knew what the Conduit was before heading to Ilos. Since Shepard has almost all of the same information as Saren couldn't we assume that he and Sovereign had no idea what the Conduit was until landing on Ilos and then arranging the whole Citadel attack afterwards?

 

Even if the Virmire beacon is found immediately after Eden Prime, Mass Effect 1 still lacks a coherent plot. Saren didn't need either of the Prothean beacons or the Conduit. He had full access to the Presidium, as did his Asari commandos, and before Eden Prime he was under no suspicion for treachery. All he needed to do was to seize Citadel Control and open up the Citadel for Sovereign and the attacking Geth fleet. No diversion through Eden Prime was needed.

 

Saren and his commandos should have been enough to seize Citadel Control, as he manages to seize the building with a similarly small force of Geth. At Ilos Shepard was just minutes behind Saren in jumping through the Conduit, so it wouldn't be possible for Saren to have gotten a large army through. It is never stated how many troops Saren got through the Conduit, but given the extremely short time frame anything larger than a small unit would be impossible. Many of the Geth and Krogan Shepard was facing on the Citadel were reinforcements from Geth ships.

 

Also if Saren didn't have enough commandos to seize the building and hold for reinforcements, he could quite easily raise those troops while he still has the element of surprise. He had a Reaper that no one knew about and indoctrination at his disposal. He could both use his Spectre status and Matriarch's Benezia's political clout to lure more victims into indoctrination until he had the troops he needed. 

 

Saren being ignorant of the Conduit's true nature until he found it also doesn't quite work as explanation for the Eden Prime attack either, IMO. Why would a Prothean weapon be so important when he had the Reapers as allies? Any weapons the Protheans could have possibly produced would be outclassed by anything fielded by the Reapers. Chasing an unknown wouldn't be worth jeopardizing the element of surprise (the Reapers' greatest advantage), particularly when that unknown was unlikely to prove worth the risks involved in pursuing it. Also the civilizations of the galaxy were ignorant of this weapon as well. Wouldn't it be wiser to kick off the Reaper invasion, seize control of the Mass Effect relay network and isolate individual planets and colonies, before pursuing the Conduit?

 

Mass Effect 1's plot really only works if Saren isn't a Spectre, in which case he needs the Conduit for Presidium access. I wonder if originally it had been intended that Anderson would get Saren's spectre status stripped in the aftermath of their little misadventure.

[Han Shot First]

Am I the only one who doesn't give much thought to the engine room beyond "Weekes thought it was cool and didn't really think through the implications?"

 

To be fair, when Weekes wrote that scene he probably wasn't picturing windows overlooking the engine room. The ship design would have in the hands of other devs and that would have been designed after the script had been written.

[Iakus]

Even if the Virmire beacon is found immediately after Eden Prime, Mass Effect 1 still lacks a coherent plot. Saren didn't need either of the Prothean beacons or the Conduit. He had full access to the Presidium, as did his Asari commandos, and before Eden Prime he was under no suspicion for treachery. All he needed to do was to seize Citadel Control and open up the Citadel for Sovereign and the attacking Geth fleet. No diversion through Eden Prime was needed.

 

Saren and his commandos should have been enough to seize Citadel Control, as he manages to seize the building with a similarly small force of Geth. At Ilos Shepard was just minutes behind Saren in jumping through the Conduit, so it wouldn't be possible for Saren to have gotten a large army through. It is never stated how many troops Saren got through the Conduit, but given the extremely short time frame anything larger than a small unit would be impossible. Many of the Geth and Krogan Shepard was facing on the Citadel were reinforcements from Geth ships.

 

Also if Saren didn't have enough commandos to seize the building and hold for reinforcements, he could quite easily raise those troops while he still has the element of surprise. He had a Reaper that no one knew about and indoctrination at his disposal. He could both use his Spectre status and Matriarch's Benezia's political clout to lure more victims into indoctrination until he had the troops he needed. 

 

Saren being ignorant of the Conduit's true nature until he found it also doesn't quite work as explanation for the Eden Prime attack either, IMO. Why would a Prothean weapon be so important when he had the Reapers as allies? Any weapons the Protheans could have possibly produced would be outclassed by anything fielded by the Reapers. Chasing an unknown wouldn't be worth jeopardizing the element of surprise (the Reapers' greatest advantage), particularly when that unknown was unlikely to prove worth the risks involved in pursuing it. Also the civilizations of the galaxy were ignorant of this weapon as well. Wouldn't it be wiser to kick off the Reaper invasion, seize control of the Mass Effect relay network and isolate individual planets and colonies, before pursuing the Conduit?

 

Mass Effect 1's plot really only works if Saren isn't a Spectre, in which case he needs the Conduit for Presidium access. I wonder if originally it had been intended that Anderson would get Saren's spectre status stripped in the aftermath of their little misadventure.

You are assuming that Saren (and Sovereign) knew at the time why the signal wasn't working.  I interpreted their search for the Conduit as an investigation into that.  I can imagine Saren knowing that something called a "Conduit" was used to sabotage the Citadel, but nothing more than that.  If he can find it, he can perhaps undo what was done.

 

Then he gets to Ilos, finds out what the Conduit actually was, and what the Prothean scientists did:

Saren "Doh!" *facepalms* 

Sovereign: "HA!-ha!"

[AlanC9]

Not knowing what stopped the signal from functioning didn't stop Saren from fomenting the Rachni War.

 

Anyway, searching for the Conduit isn't all that bad; easy enough to rationalize around.Letting Saren anywhere near the operation is worse. Sure, getting caught at it was really bad luck, but it's a dopey chance to run.

 

And transmitting voice recordings of Saren and Benezia to all his geth is pretty dumb. Though I suppose we can say that just happened to be one of the geth units from Sovereign that Tali salvaged. This can't make the timing any worse than it already is since it already makes no sense.

[Iakus]

Not knowing what stopped the signal from functioning didn't stop Saren from fomenting the Rachni War.

 

Anyway, searching for the Conduit isn't all that bad; easy enough to rationalize around.Letting Saren anywhere near the operation is worse. Sure, getting caught at it was really bad luck, but it's a dopey chance to run.

 

And transmitting voice recordings of Saren and Benezia to all his geth is pretty dumb. Though I suppose we can say that just happened to be one of the geth units from Sovereign that Tali salvaged. This can't make the timing any worse than it already is since it already makes no sense.

I hope you mean Sovereign, 'cause turians do not have that kind of lifespan

 

In any case, think of Sovereign as taking a more direct action to capture the Citadel and find out what went wrong.  When that didn't work, Sovereign worked backwards, trying to figure out what happened.  Obviously what happened didn't originate on the Citadel, as that was the first place the Reapers take in every cycle.

 

As for the geth, they are a networked intelligence.  any information they gain could be spread across their consensus through shared memories.  Kinda like in BSG how Boomer was able to access Athena's stored memories after she resurrected on a cylon ship.    Or how Legion had access to the question "Does this unit have a soul?" that touched off the Morning War

 

A better queston is how a random quarian's mp3 player was "irrefutable proof" of Saren's treachery.

[Orikon]

Well, to find out what this game is missing, you have to find out what this game had.

 

1.  A great big galactic war.   That started too early.  Hour one was great.  Hour ten was great.  By the time you got to hour twenty five, you were just like, "Yeah yeah, wear on..  Yah, I get it.".

 

Exactly. That's of the few things that always bothered me about ME3's story. Like you said,the first 10-15 hours were great since they served as a buildup,but the second half of the game losses any remaining interesting atmosphere. Especially after Rannoch,there's barely any sense of the bigger picture left (aka. "Ok,why the **** am I here? Shouldn't I be fighting the Reapers or something?"),which culminates in a god-awful final battle.

 

Most of the Reaper war goes completely behind the scenes,and overall (again first 10-12 hours are excluded,they were obviously meant as a buildup for the rest of the game) the story is extremely lacking. The original script was far better then the actual,released game. Retaking Omega,liberating planets for mercenary groups,going back to the Omega 4 Relay to reclaim a relic for a mercenary groups,visiting the Destiny Ascension,etc. the list goes on. That's something I was hoping for in Mass Effect 3,and that's the biggest thing ME3 is missing;more involvement in the actual war. Instead of saving the entire Hanar civilization by talking to somebody on the Citadel,I wanted to actually go there and solve the problem myself.

Sure,refusing the Salarian's offer or betraying Wrex,or even destroying the Quarians/Geth was fun,but again,there's too much story going on behind the scenes for me to be fully invested in the whole "the galaxy is at war" atmosphere.

 

Gathering War Assets to boost the war effort is a great idea,but again,it all lacks a general sense of purpose. There are no choices,no gameplay surrounding those groups and ships,no cutscenes,no effects,nothing at all. Only a number you see in the War Room. Plus,none of that **** matters a tiniest bit in the final "battle".

And you can't blame it on the story direction. Heck,the entire freaking galaxy is at an all-out war with the Reapers,how the hell can there be a lack of content if,as Bioware claims,Mass Effect 3 is a completed product -- that is,there was no content or story parts cut due to time and ME3 fulfilled the whole vision developers had?

 

OT: To answer the OP's question,simply put ME3 lacks content. A lot.

 

/vent

[SilJeff]

I found it also lacking a certain species who in ME2 was the only "true members" of Blood Pack.

 

Why is it 90% vorcha in ME3?