84 réponses à ce sujet

[Senya]

I'm going to vote against such a reveal on the basis of it being trite and cliche. It seems like every fantasy setting nowadays that doesn't go with Greek-style polytheism has a large, Catholic-esque church with dark rumors of mistaken beliefs and forgotten origins. If they aren't outright evil, they are generically useless, and are certainly never portrayed as having a point or being a positive influence in any way. The Andrastian Chantry fits that mold pretty well already, along with the Faith of the Seven from Game of Thrones, the Church of the Eternal Fire from the Witcher, and the Abbey of the Everyman from Dishonored, and I'd rather Bioware take a more original path.

Indeed. It was original the first few times back during the Reformation and Enlightenment, but people can do something original once in a while.

[animedreamer]

I hope she was a mage but a mage who still also some how obtained the love of the maker, or was truly blessed by him.  So that a certain amount of irony, and a certain amount of faith is true. Maybe she was this mage who never trained her powers, (do we ever hear of mages amongst the Alamarri tribes back then?) who trained more as a warrior, until perhaps her charms gained the Makers notice, and her gifted her with his favor/power, as well as instinctually giving her with some instinctual level of magic knowledge/understanding.

 

 

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not going to apologize for finding humor in something you don't. If you can't appreciate the irony, fine that's ok. You don't need to find it funny. I use humor as a coping mechanism, I can find something to laugh about in most situations. It's not really about "mocking" anyone, and when/if I do step over the line and actually offend someone without meaning to, I usually am quick to apologize. And do feel free to "mock" my beliefs if you want, I can appreciate a good joke even if it's on me. What I don't like is when someone is trying to make me feel bad for finding something funny, you don't have the right to tell me what I can and can't laugh at. We obviously have a different sense of humor, I respect that. I hope that you do too.

 

That being said, I really don't like the Chantry, and I'll work against them if I can in my playthroughs. That doesn't stop anyone else from enjoying their pro-chantry/templar runs. 

I never said you can't find it funny, just that I don't like it when people mock other people's religions. Or make fun of anything about other people for that matter. Chalk it down to my entire life being the blunt of the kinds of jokes people make at other's expense. 

[A Clever Name]

Personally I am of the opinion that Andraste's status as a possible mage should be left unknown.  To me, faith is built upon interpretation, and taking that away removes the ability for individuals to build those interpretations for themselves.  Andrastianism is built around esoteric ideas that are not easily defined; with vague statements that can be read loosely or strictly.  Ultimately, do we really know who Andraste was, aside from her accomplishments and a few remarks we don't have the originator's meaning for?  The ambiguous and the unknown leave room for these interpretations that have cultivated the modern Chantry, and I think by revealing Andraste's nature as magical or non-magical would take away that necessary mystery that I love.

[dragonflight288]

Personally I am of the opinion that Andraste's status as a possible mage should be left unknown.  To me, faith is built upon interpretation, and taking that away removes the ability for individuals to build those interpretations for themselves.  Andrastianism is built around esoteric ideas that are not easily defined; with vague statements that can be read loosely or strictly.  Ultimately, do we really know who Andraste was, aside from her accomplishments and a few remarks we don't have the originator's meaning for?  The ambiguous and the unknown leave room for these interpretations that have cultivated the modern Chantry, and I think by revealing Andraste's nature as magical or non-magical would take away that necessary mystery that I love.

 

What if your Inquisitor is put into a position to know the truth, and given the knowledge that releasing said truth would cause chaos, and then be given the choice to let the world know with real consequences as the game progresses or in the epilogue? 

 

Would that work?

[A Clever Name]

What if your Inquisitor is put into a position to know the truth, and given the knowledge that releasing said truth would cause chaos, and then be given the choice to let the world know with real consequences as the game progresses or in the epilogue? 

 

Would that work?

Good question!  I make my in-game decisions based on what I think my Inquisitor(s) would do, so it would depend on their opinion.  If I specifically were to make that decision?  I would reveal the truth - that seems something to me that I wouldn't have the right to hide, despite the possible resulting consequences.  It's not that I would cover it up because I want it to be a mystery, so much as I'd be a little sad about having to learn the truth if it disagreed with my interpretation.  Just my opinion, though.  Everyone's free to think as they like, which is why I personally prefer it to be left a mystery.  That way no one is right or wrong.

[MrMrPendragon]

Andraste being a mage is as likely as the Maker himself showing up in a game. It's not going to happen.

 

And there it is.

 

The writers aren't going to say anything that would sort of "wreck" any kind of religion in Thedas. I doubt they even have the whole lore written out. Maybe they haven't even decided things like how the dwarves lost their magic, or if Dumat is really still alive, or other parts of the lore where we see these "connections".

 

For all we know, parts of the lore are still incomplete, and that they're still writing answers for the unanswered questions or mysteries in the lore.

[Palidane]

And there it is.

 

The writers aren't going to say anything that would sort of "wreck" any kind of religion in Thedas. I doubt they even have the whole lore written out. Maybe they haven't even decided things like how the dwarves lost their magic, or if Dumat is really still alive, or other parts of the lore where we see this "connections".

 

For all we know, parts of the lore are still incomplete, and that they're still writing answers for the unanswered questions or mysteries in the lore.

The writers have a settings bible that lists the actual truth for all these mysteries, even if they are never to be revealed to us. It's to help the writers with internal consistency.

[MrMrPendragon]

The writers have a settings bible that lists the actual truth for all these mysteries, even if they are never to be revealed to us. It's to help the writers with internal consistency.

 

Maybe. I guess it makes sense if they plan to use that mystery as a part of some story, but I doubt the mysteries surrounding Andraste and the Maker will be a core element of any kind of storyline, because like I said, Bioware isn't going to mess with the relgions they established.

[Ynqve]

I never said you can't find it funny, just that I don't like it when people mock other people's religions. Or make fun of anything about other people for that matter. Chalk it down to my entire life being the blunt of the kinds of jokes people make at other's expense. 

 

I fail to see how calling a gigantic and oppressing organization out on their bs is mocking anyone's religion. It's not exactly the same as walking around from Andrastrian to Andrastrian screaming how stupid or wrong they are. 

[Dayze]

Is the whole divine not being real/not as impressive somewhat of a over-used plot twist?

 

Yeah; though it would be nice to see it really well done for a change.  Not saying this is one of those instances were it needs to be done but half the time it seems like its done pretty much on the level of teenagers/young adults who are all like I'm an atheist/anarchist/satanist/communist/whatever....more an attempt to be "shocking" and "different" than well written.

 

On the other hand; i would have to say it actually seems like the opposite is more common, things done where you are the "chosen" one or where Titans/gods/whatever all exist whether in the modern world or a fantasy one.

 

Especially if you factor in TV shows/movies.

 

Andraste and blood magic; the cult did a lot of blood magic and aside from worshiping the dragon were pretty big on "tradition" and not deviating from the way things were done.  Also wasn't one of the swords she gave someone who worked with enchanted via blood magic?

[Samahl]

Why is atheism inherently "shocking"? Why must religion be factual, when it's not evidence-based even in the real world?

[Ynqve]

Why is atheism inherently "shocking"? Why must religion be factual, when it's not evidence-based even in the real world?

We don't believe in a supreme being, it's not that big of a deal. It's not as if we're sacrificing everyone's left socks to Cthulhu. 

[Dayze]

Because its not the "go-to" belief for the majority of this worlds inhabitants.

 

I'm sure there are probably a few atheistic religions out there.

 

But by and large; its pretty vastly against the majority of people currently existing in their most basic thought patterns.  Or however you might put that.

 

That being said; I wouldn't disagree with you....from my perspective atheism isn't that shocking.  Heck; to some extent every bodies an atheist to every religion but their own.

 

It also gets tiring with having atheists be angst or angry at god that does or doesn't exist or they have to have some big "reason" or "event" that made them atheist.

 

So many people just cant' seem to grasp the idea that someone thinks differently than them.

[dragonflight288]

Can't Andraste be both a mage and the Maker's bride and prophet

[Palidane]

Why is atheism inherently "shocking"? Why must religion be factual, when it's not evidence-based even in the real world?

That's not what he meant. The "shock" would be learning that the Chantry got everything wrong. He wasn't talking about atheists at all.

 

But I agree with him, a lot of times this can come off as preachy. "So it turns out, Andraste was a mage who worshiped an Old God and didn't even believe in the Maker! Looks like the Chantry was totally wrong about everything! That really goes to show the dangers of letting other people think for you! Thankfully, now we can move on to an age of independent thought and reason! Blah blah opium of the masses blah blah outgrown such silly superstitions!" 

 

A lot of times, it really does sound like the author is trying too hard to get his message across. Now, I'm not saying that it always works like that, or that the Chantry shouldn't be wrong in the game, I'm just saying it's a definite trend.

[Ynqve]

Because its not the "go-to" belief for the majority of this worlds inhabitants.

 

I'm sure there are probably a few atheistic religions out there.

 

But by and large; its pretty vastly against the majority of people currently existing in their most basic thought patterns.  Or however you might put that.

 

That being said; I wouldn't disagree with you....from my perspective atheism isn't that shocking.  Heck; to some extent every bodies an atheist to every religion but their own.

 

It also gets tiring with having atheists be angst or angry at god that does or doesn't exist or they have to have some big "reason" or "event" that made them atheist.

 

So many people just cant' seem to grasp the idea that someone thinks differently than them.

 

No. There aren't. Atheism is the complete lack of religion. There are however quite a few atheistic life stances and philosophies. All religions are life stances but not all life stances are religions. 

 

Just wanted to make that clear.

[Dayze]

We don't believe in a supreme being, it's not that big of a deal. It's not as if we're sacrificing everyone's left socks to Cthulhu. 

What you don't understand is; to a lot of religious people they would actually be more comfortable with you sacrificing everyone's left socks to Cthulhu.

 

I mean, say what you will about the tenets of Satanism, dude, but at least its an ethos.

[Dayze]

No. There aren't. Atheism is the complete lack of religion. There are however quite a few atheistic life stances and philosophies. All religions are life stances but not all life stances are religions. 

 

Just wanted to make that clear.

Actually no; Atheism:  Disbelief in a deity or gods

  That still leaves room for a religion to wiggle its way in there.

[Palidane]

Actually no; Atheism:  Disbelief in a deity or gods

  That still leaves room for a religion to wiggle its way in there.

 

[Ynqve]

What you don't understand is; to a lot of religious people they would actually be more comfortable with you sacrificing everyone's left socks to Cthulhu.

 

I mean, say what you will about the tenets of Satanism, dude, but at least its an ethos.

 

I know, it's frustrating. I'm not going to go on an insane killing rampage just because I don't have a god to fear and shackle me, I don't need a supreme being to behave in a moral and civilized manner. Yet somehow that's hard for some people to understand.

 

And yes, I know that there are a lot of decent and good religious people out there who are perfectly fine with people who don't share their beliefs. It's as always the vocal minority who ruins the fun for everyone (and that goes both ways, I know there are douchebag atheists).

[Dayze]

Actually; just to make sure I looked it up on the interwebs dictionaries before I posted....

[Ynqve]

Actually no; Atheism:  Disbelief in a deity or gods

  That still leaves room for a religion to wiggle its way in there.

 

No. Atheism is the complete lack of belief in any supernatural phenomenon of any kind. It's not faith based at all. It's the opposite of religion.

 

But this has nothing to do with the topic, I suggest we leave it. 

[Dayze]

I know, it's frustrating. I'm not going to go on an insane killing rampage just because I don't have a god to fear and shackle me, I don't need a supreme being to behave in a moral and civilized manner. Yet somehow that's hard for some people to understand.

 

And yes, I know that there are a lot of decent and good religious people out there who are perfectly fine with people who don't share their beliefs. It's as always the vocal minority who ruins the fun for everyone (and that goes both ways, I know there are douchebag atheists).

Well; that and just the idea that you don't need a religious system, whether that be christian, Buddhist etc...to live a good life or to believe in something like satanism to motivate you towards a bad life.

 

Its a bad life but its at least one based on a universal perspective that they can understand.  basically it attacks not just their faith in a god but their faith in the need for a god/religion in the first place.

 

Not factoring in how people can get about sports, politics etc...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I fail to see how calling a gigantic and oppressing organization out on their bs is mocking anyone's religion. It's not exactly the same as walking around from Andrastrian to Andrastrian screaming how stupid or wrong they are. 

 

Except you said you would do exactly that. 

I hope she is a mage, I would rub it so hard in the chantry's face! "HAH, I BET YOU FEEL ALL KINDS OF SILLY NOW, DON'T YA!"