939 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Let's just forget about it. It's going nowhere and there are other things to talk about that won't stress everybody out.

well lets bring us back OT

[Elite Midget]

Hah i already explained that to you my opinion is that hawke is failure that is an opinion that he failed at certain task this is not opinion this is a fact.So no im not too arogant.Besides guy didn't provided any evidence guy claim that petrice informed others about hawke despite she even didn't know who it is and then was calaming that he gave me an evidence of petrice doing that despite there was no such thing in the game...

It isn't a fact because Hawke didn't fail at the things you mentioned. You're ignoring Hawke's position at the time, what Hawke knew at the time, and that Hawke isn't Metagaming like you are. Hawke did nothing wrong and if Hawke had killed Petrice during Act 1 it would have made things FAR worse at an accelerated rate.

 

Gave far more evidence than you and actually addressed everything you brought up while you've ignored nearly 99% of all my posts and their contents thus far.

 

On another note, if you insist on insulting other users or myself I and others will be forced to ask a mod to look into things. So please refrain from personal insults. If you cannot cease with the personal attacks than maybe this topic isn't best suited for you as you've done nothing but bash Hawke, and other users that don't agree with your rather irrational hatred of Hawke, in all your posts thus far.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It isn't a fact because Hawke didn't fail at the things you mentioned. You're ignoring Hawke's position at the time, what Hawke knew at the time, and that Hawke isn't Metagaming like you are. Hawke did nothing wrong and if Hawke had killed Petrice during Act 1 it would have made things FAR worse at an accelerated rate.

 

Gave far more evidence than you and actually addressed everything you brought up while you've ignored nearly 99% of all my posts and their contents thus far.

 

On another note, if you insist on insulting other users or myself I and others will be forced to ask a mod to look into things. So please refrain from personal insults. If you cannot cease with the personal attacks than maybe this topic isn't best suited for you as you've done nothing but bash Hawke, and other users that don't agree with your rather irrational hatred of Hawke, in all your posts thus far.

 

Ok lets start massacre again...

Did hawke failed ptrotecting her mother.Yes- fact

Did hawke failed in preventing conflict outbreak with qunari yes -fact

 

And no that petrice was dangerous something we knew since her quest so no it isn't metagaming it is logic... and as i said no it wouldn't.But well apparently claim that she informed someone about hawke despite not being in the game is fine but claim that petrice was dangerous because she tried actively trigger war with qunari is not...

 

No you didn't gave ma any evidence unless you consider your conspiracy theories that petrice informed someone about despite that not being in the game an evidence...

 

Personal insult haha that is good but sorry i didn't insulted anyone so well feel free to tell mods about well "personal insult".And i no i don't hate hawke i dislike him as protagonist sadly if you read my post you would know that and not like you claimed that i blame hawke for idol despite that denied that only few post before... 

[Willowhugger]

I mentioned it in another thread.

 

Hawke is the Failure King.
Hawke fails to prevent the Qunari-Kirkwall thing from exploding into Civil War
Hawke fails to prevent the Mage-Templar War
He fails to protect his mother
He fails to protect his sister
He fails to save Ketojen.

None of this is in doubt.
Hawke lets Corypheus go.

However, I actually think this is just because poor Hawke is stuck in a different genre than the Grey Warden. Whereas the Grey Warden is in Tolkien's Middle Earth (albeit, a sexed up one), so is Hawke stuck in something like fantasy Noir. Hawke makes the same sort of decisions the Grey Warden does (I know because I roleplay them as the exact same character at various points in his life) but events go out of their way to turn to ****. The Maker is against Hawke and there's nothing intrinsic about this other than it's Hawke's life in a nutshell to not be allowed to accomplish anything definitive.

 

I liken him to Clementine from Season Two of the Walking Dead video game.

 

Hawke is SUPER-Intelligent and SUPER-Talented but people don't LISTEN to him like they do the Grey Warden. They ignore him and do what they want no matter what.

 

As a result, things turn to crap.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I mentioned it in another thread.

 

Hawke is the Failure King.
Hawke fails to prevent the Qunari-Kirkwall thing from exploding into Civil War
Hawke fails to prevent the Mage-Templar War
He fails to protect his mother
He fails to protect his sister
He fails to save Ketojen.

None of this is in doubt.
Hawke lets Corypheus go.

However, I actually think this is just because poor Hawke is stuck in a different genre than the Grey Warden. Whereas the Grey Warden is in Tolkien's Middle Earth (albeit, a sexed up one), so is Hawke stuck in something like fantasy Noir. Hawke makes the same sort of decisions the Grey Warden does (I know because I roleplay them as the exact same character at various points in his life) but events go out of their way to turn to ****. The Maker is against Hawke and there's nothing intrinsic about this other than it's Hawke's life in a nutshell to not be allowed to accomplish anything definitive.

 

I liken him to Clementine from Season Two of the Walking Dead video game.

 

Hawke is SUPER-Intelligent and SUPER-Talented but people don't LISTEN to him like they do the Grey Warden. They ignore him and do what they want no matter what.

 

As a result, things turn to crap.

Super-inteligent i would argue when guy tells that he will kill tallis and guy just stands there and watches as she goes away slowly very slowly. 

But as you said it was game as it meant to be that way this is why i dislike hawke as protagonist his choices don't matter it always goes the same and many times we can actions or lack of them lead to later problems in kirkwall like i said him helping bartrand.

I liked my diplomatic hawke as person but s/he sucked as protagonist.

[Bellethiel]

I do not think we are in disagreement in "did Hawke stop this or that" matter. As I said earlier I like when character fails sometimes cause it gives them more realistic feel. All what was discussed here was more of "Hawke failed cause he didn't do this and that, and it's all his/her fault" vs "Hawke did all he/she could, but happened to end up in difficult circumstances and things were beyond his/her control". And I guess that's a matter of personal opinion here. So it's pointless to go on with that. 

 

Hawke is SUPER-Intelligent 

But not another Sherlock Holmes for sure, with all that murder investigation stuff.

[Black Jimmy]

Super-inteligent i would argue when guy tells that he will kill tallis and guy just stands there and watches as she goes away slowly very slowly. 

But as you said it was game as it meant to be that way this is why i dislike hawke as protagonist his choices don't matter it always goes the same and many times we can actions or lack of them lead to later problems in kirkwall like i said him helping bartrand.

I liked my diplomatic hawke as person but s/he sucked as protagonist.

We don't know if there choices matter yet as DA:I hasn't come out yet.

[Willowhugger]

I do not think we are in disagreement in "did Hawke stop this or that" matter. As I said earlier I like when character fails sometimes cause it gives them more realistic feel. All what was discussed here was more of "Hawke failed cause he didn't do this and that, and it's all his/her fault" vs "Hawke did all he/she could, but happened to end up in difficult circumstances and things were beyond his/her control". And I guess that's a matter of personal opinion here. So it's pointless to go on with that. 

 

But not another Sherlock Holmes for sure, with all that murder investigation stuff.

 

Yeah, the difference between Hawke and the Warden is the Warden's actions tended to turn out better but that's largely out of his hands.

But yes, Dragon Age 2's flaws included missing some obvious choices in-game which should have been there.

Killing Peatrice would have probably turned out well but given she tried to have you killed, it's something the developers should have thought many Hawkes would have killed her.

Ditto, a one line fix, "I searched for the serial killer for years but found nothing."

[TheKomandorShepard]

We don't know if there choices matter yet as DA:I hasn't come out yet.

I was talking in game choices that affected main quests no matter what route you took it almost always went the same way read to failure and everything goint to hell save for act 1 where hawke got what he wanted and went for.

[Willowhugger]

I was talking in game choices that affected main quests no matter what route you took it almost always went the same way read to failure and everything goint to hell save for act 1 where hawke got what he wanted and went for.

 

I maintain 90% of DA2's problems are the short development cycle and the fact it was called Dragon Age 2 versus "Dragon Age: Kirkwall."

People wanted High Fantasy and they got Mage Detective.

[Elite Midget]

If you cannot conduct yourself in a mature manner than you aren't worth my time. Lay off the insults and sarcasm next time, please.

I mentioned it in another thread.

 

Hawke is the Failure King.
Hawke fails to prevent the Qunari-Kirkwall thing from exploding into Civil War
Hawke fails to prevent the Mage-Templar War
He fails to protect his mother
He fails to protect his sister
He fails to save Ketojen.

None of this is in doubt.
Hawke lets Corypheus go.

However, I actually think this is just because poor Hawke is stuck in a different genre than the Grey Warden. Whereas the Grey Warden is in Tolkien's Middle Earth (albeit, a sexed up one), so is Hawke stuck in something like fantasy Noir. Hawke makes the same sort of decisions the Grey Warden does (I know because I roleplay them as the exact same character at various points in his life) but events go out of their way to turn to ****. The Maker is against Hawke and there's nothing intrinsic about this other than it's Hawke's life in a nutshell to not be allowed to accomplish anything definitive.

 

I liken him to Clementine from Season Two of the Walking Dead video game.

 

Hawke is SUPER-Intelligent and SUPER-Talented but people don't LISTEN to him like they do the Grey Warden. They ignore him and do what they want no matter what.

 

As a result, things turn to crap.

 

 

-Hawke isn't a King or Queen. Hawke is a Peasant than a Noble than the Champion of Kirkwall which is a title that has no real political standing.

-Not Hawke's responsibility, furthermore it isn't a Civil War as the Qunari aren't natives of Kirkwall. Hawke also put down the Qunari attack/invasion in a single day and completely avoided a Holy War between the Chantry and the Qun with how Hawke handled the situation.

-It was going to happen eventually, reading the Novels reveals that tensions are high everywhere and that Kirkwall is only one of many excuses used to bring about full blown war which was officially started by someone that doesn't even know who Anders is or anywhere near Kirkwall. Furthermore Hawke stops Kirkwall from being destroyed as once again it only took Hawke a single day to end the fighting. Thus Hawke succeeded as Hawke is the Champion of Kirkwall, not the World.

-Hawke can save his/her sibling by either keeping them at home(so they become a Templar or Circle Mage) or taking Anders with them which leads to their sibling to become a Grey Warden.

-Hawke only agreed to escort Ketojen outside the city, Hawke even mentions that their task ended the moment they left the city limits which Ketojen acknowledges and is glad that Hawke understands their bounds as it's ultimately Ketojen's choice, not Hawke's, in regards to Ketojen's fate.

-Actually it is.

-Hawke didn't let Corypheus go and as far as Hawke knew he/she killed him. Hawke isn't a Warden and none of them knew the full extent of Corypheus's powers. Heck, Hawke didn't even set out to fight Corypheus, Hawke only ended up there because the Carta was hunting Hawke and thus Hawke eventually had to confront Corypheus in battle.

 

 

 

Yeah, the difference between Hawke and the Warden is the Warden's actions tended to turn out better but that's largely out of his hands.

But yes, Dragon Age 2's flaws included missing some obvious choices in-game which should have been there.

Killing Peatrice would have probably turned out well but given she tried to have you killed, it's something the developers should have thought many Hawkes would have killed her.

Ditto, a one line fix, "I searched for the serial killer for years but found nothing."

You can tell Petrice that you should kill her for what she did but it ultimately leads to nothing as Petrice already destroyed  the evidence and if Hawke killed Petrice they would be screwing over themselves and their family while Petrice would be seen as innocent.

[Black Jimmy]

I was talking in game choices that affected main quests no matter what route you took it almost always went the same way

 

 Ah, fair enough then. Shame Bioware didn't spend another year on the game really.

[Black Jimmy]

I maintain 90% of DA2's problems are the short development cycle and the fact it was called Dragon Age 2 versus "Dragon Age: Kirkwall."

People wanted High Fantasy and they got Mage Detective.

Agreed. That'd actually be a cooler title. Now DA2 looks out of place inbetween Origins and Inquisition.

 

I like the Noir angle. I'm kind of dissapointed that Inquisitition won't have as personal a story as DA:K did.

[Willowhugger]

Hey, I love Hawke.

 

I think Hawke is the sanest, funniest, bestest dude in Kirkwall.

Maybe in all of Thedas.

 

It doesn't mean that I don't think the universe went out of its way to **** on him.

 

Hawke's life can be summarized by the Mine Quest.

Or better yet, Monty Python.

 

“Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.”

 mojomonkey77 Monty Python quotes

 

Hawke builds a better life for Fereldans in Kirkwall

They get killed by Dragons

Hawke kills the Dragons.
Miners build an even better life for themselves

Even BIGGER dragons come

Hawke kills that Dragon

The Fereldans get caught up in the Mage Templar War

Hawke goes to fight it.

[Black Jimmy]

At lleast Hawke is aware of all this

 

Hawke: Summoned a horror. Of course. Why wouldn't I do that?

[Elite Midget]

Hey, I love Hawke.

 

I think Hawke is the sanest, funniest, bestest dude in Kirkwall.

Maybe in all of Thedas.

 

It doesn't mean that I don't think the universe went out of its way to **** on him.

 

Hawke's life can be summarized by the Mine Quest.

Or better yet, Monty Python.

 

“Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.”

 mojomonkey77 Monty Python quotes (Crea

Hawke's life blew but Hawke still succeed far more often than they failed and Hawke fixed a lot of situations that q43 caused by others. Heck, when **** hit the fan Hawke managed to clear things up in less than a day.

 

Qunari invasion? Only took Hawke mere hours to stop the Arishok and save Kirkwall and prevent a Holy War.

 

Templar and Mages are killing each other? Only took Hawke mere hours to end the Templar and Mage fighting within the city. The Mage/Templar war didn't even start til AFTER Kirkwall's events and it was started by someone unrelated to what happened in Kirkwall.

 

Both of those are huge things and Hawke had no responsibility for them as it was the actions of others, whom Hawke couldn't control, that caused them yet Hawke still stepped up and saved Kirkwall anyway.

[Willowhugger]

Like I said, Hawke is in Noir Fantasy genre.

Warden is High Fantasy.

 

Hawke does good like Sam Spade or Philip Marlowe. In their stories, the bad guys get punished and the hero saves some lives but the world is still a pretty rotten place to live in.

That's Hawke.

[Elite Midget]

Like I said, Hawke is in Noir Fantasy genre.

Warden is High Fantasy.

 

Hawke does good like Sam Spade or Philip Marlowe. In their stories, the bad guys get punished and the hero saves some lives but the world is still a pretty rotten place to live in.

That's Hawke.

Hawke isn't in a noir fantasy, a lot of the things you mentioned as Hawke's failures aren't his/her failures or even their responsibility and things like their sibling can be prevented.

 

Hawke literally stops a Holy War by defeating the Arishok in less than a single day and placating the Qunari enough to get them to leave without any further fighting. This in turn lead to Hawke becoming the Champion of Kirkwall and the people loved Hawke afterward. We also know that Isabela returning is canon due to the Novels/Comics that are set after DA2 which has Isabela dealing with her old life and eventually embracing her new life as a Hero and that she's a good person at heart.

 

Hawke also didn't start the Mage/Templar War and Hawke saves Kirkwall  from the fighting in less than a day. The War didn't start til a bit after and it was started by someone unrelated to Hawke and Anders. They had been planning a war for years, what Anders did at Kirkwall and the death of an insane Meredith, which caused Templars to question their order hence why most that become a part of the Inquisition are former Templars who follow the Divine and Cassandra's call, was merely the final excuse they needed to rally their base into open war.

 

The Templar/Mage stuff was also an issue long before Hawke was even born, blaming Hawke for it or saying Hawke "failed" is completely off base as Hawke didn't start the situation, Hawke did everything to try and prevent fighting, and Hawke put an end to the fighting the moment the Mages and Templars openly tried to kill each other on the streets and dragged all of Kirkwall into it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ok lets see

Almost Entire act 2 is about preventing outbreak of the conflict with qunari hawke fails in that task no matter what we do.Later he stops arishok but if he didn't meredith was one the way she would stop him anyway.

 

Entire third act is about preventing outrbeak of the conflict between mages and templars hawke fails in that task no matter what conflict erupts templars win no matter what you do side with mages or not.Then let's renember that meredith was affected by idol that meredith bought by bartrand and hawke was one who helped him get it.There we have anders even who blow up entire chantry who hawke if pro-templar could kill simple because he was an abomnation and we can tell him into his face hawke doesn't do anything about him at best can inform clueless cullen hah even champion influence was reason why meredith didn't arrested him as she says.

 

Then we have main goal of game protect your mother you fail no matter what.

 

Then we have legacy dlc where we have to kill big bad corypheus hawke fails corry escapes.

 

Then we have MoTA where hawkes try steal from orlesian duke because stranger that is qunari agent he lets agent escape with list of qunari spies and kill orlesian duke what causes problems between kirkwall and orlais.  

[Bellethiel]

Well now I suppose disagreement lies in definition of failure on both sides.

So one side is like: letting actual fightings happen is a failure, cause people died city burned, etc and the other one is like: but hey it was just like one day fight and Hawke stopping that helps a lot when you look at it in the bigger picture.

I think problem lies in DAII itself since it kinda makes you forget the bigger picture. You are focused on Kirkwall, protect people there and deal with inside conflicts. Looking at it like that yeah you failed in protecting certain people, civilians died, city was burning. On the other hand though, when you look at that in perspective Hawke succedeed in saving more lives by stopping all these things quickly, while they were still inside Kirkwall.

[WildOrchid]

snip

 

You're getting repetitive. We know you don't like Hawke.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well now I suppose disagreement lies in definition of failure on both sides.

So one side is like: letting actual fightings happen is a failure, cause people died city burned, etc and the other one is like: but hey it was just like one day fight and Hawke stopping that helps a lot when you look at it in the bigger picture.

I think problem lies in DAII itself since it kinda makes you forget the bigger picture. You are focused on Kirkwall, protect people there and deal with inside conflicts. Looking at it like that yeah you failed in protecting certain people, civilians died, city was burning. On the other hand though, when you look at that in perspective Hawke succedeed in saving more lives by stopping all these things quickly, while they were still inside Kirkwall.

That is not what i mean notice as i said entire points of act 2 and 3 was to stop conflict hawkes fails at is wheter you blame him for that it is up to you but he failed at this task and is fact not an opinion.

Problem is that in da 2 there is no bigger picture outside perhaps mage-templar war as they use hawke as either mage bane or hope but it is all that siding with templars or mages give templars win anyway and would do that with or without hawke.

 

 

 

You're getting repetitive. We know you don't like Hawke.

 

So must peoples here but you point that only to me hmm.

[WildOrchid]

So must peoples here but you point that only to me hmm.

 

Others stopped from what I saw, but you keep going.

 

 

 

There's no point in continuing. You luv your hero, you hate Hawke. Others love Hawke and dislike the warden or like both. It's a dead end.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Others stopped from what I saw, but you keep going.

 

 

 

There's no point in continuing. You luv your hero, you hate Hawke. Others love Hawke and dislike the warden or like both. It's a dead end.

Yes they stoped read previous page i said im done then other peoples started talk crap about me sorry but if that is your definition stopped well...

 

It wasn't even about warden i was talking about hawke because other person twisted what i have said long before about hawke and then started to argue about that then others started bring warden into that...

[Willowhugger]

 

Hawke isn't in a noir fantasy, a lot of the things you mentioned as Hawke's failures aren't his/her failures or even their responsibility and things like their sibling can be prevented.

 

We disagree then.