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[Elite Midget]

Ok lets see

Almost Entire act 2 is about preventing outbreak of the conflict with qunari hawke fails in that task no matter what we do.Later he stops arishok but if he didn't meredith was one the way she would stop him anyway.

 

Entire third act is about preventing outrbeak of the conflict between mages and templars hawke fails in that task no matter what conflict erupts templars win no matter what you do side with mages or not.Then let's renember that meredith was affected by idol that meredith bought by bartrand and hawke was one who helped him get it.There we have anders even who blow up entire chantry who hawke if pro-templar could kill simple because he was an abomnation and we can tell him into his face hawke doesn't do anything about him at best can inform clueless cullen hah even champion influence was reason why meredith didn't arrested him as she says.

 

Then we have main goal of game protect your mother you fail no matter what.

 

Then we have legacy dlc where we have to kill big bad corypheus hawke fails corry escapes.

 

Then we have MoTA where hawkes try steal from orlesian duke because stranger that is qunari agent he lets agent escape with list of qunari spies and kill orlesian duke what causes problems between kirkwall and orlais.  

You're twisting things yet again to try and demonize Hawke. I suggest you recheck your "facts" and replay the game.

 

Act 2 is about the Qunari, yes, but it ISN'T Hawke's responsibility. It was the Viscount's responsibility and he failed that so he turned to Hawke who gained the Arishok's respect. Furthermore Hawke is able to placate the Arishok, despite REPEATED attacks against them, and the Arishok finally snaps when he his team doesn't return with the Idol because Isabela ran off with it. None of that is Hawke's fault.

 

And Hawke succeeds to maintain the peace until Anders, acting WITHOUT Hawke's knowledge, blows up the Chantry. So once again, you're trying to pin blame on Hawke when it WASN'T their fault.

 

Hawke didn't bring the Idol into Kirkwall, Varric's brother did. Did you not play through the Deep Roads? Hawke, Varric, and co. were locked in the chamber by Varric's brother. Furthermore neither Hawke or Varric were affected by the Idol and had no way of knowing what it did only that it looked valuable. 

 

Leandra made her own decisions and even if Hawke asks she NEVER reveals who her suitor is or that she's going out to meet him. Hawke doesn't control his/her mother's life, Leandra is an ADULT who made  her OWN decisions and died  because of them. None of what happened to Leandra is Hawke's fault.

 

Legacy was about Hawke getting the Carta off their back, they didn't know about the ancient darkspawn mage thing until AFTER they were knee deep in it. Hawke also succeeded as Hawke literally killed the darkspawn mage, Hawke had no way of knowing that the darkspawn Mage could body hop, not even the Grey Warden's with Hawke knew that. Furthermore you IGNORED my previous posts yet again as I ALREADY explained this. Are you intentionally trying to block out everything to try and rationalize your irrational hate of Hawke?

 

Hawke was invited to a party, Hawke didn't know about the stolen Quanari list until Tallis showed up. Hawke than set out to get it back to PREVENT A HOLY WAR. The list being revealed would have caused a Holy War, THAT IS A FACT.

 

So once again, get your information right first before spouting lies and trying to change events to suit your irrational hatred of Hawke.

 

Oh, and actually read the posts you quote as it's ridiculous that I've had to repeat myself multiple times already due you refusing to read my posts even when you quote them.

 

 

We disagree then.

If Hawke was Noir Fantasy they wouldn't have had the upsides they got alongside the downsides. If it was Noir Fantasy than Hawke wouldn't haveended up the beloved Champion that even the Templars respect a great deal even if you went against them all the time.

 

Hawke also has years of happiness as well since even if you choose to kill a romanced Anders you still had 3 years of happiness with him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You're twisting things yet again to try and demonize Hawke. I suggest you recheck your "facts" and replay the game.

 

Act 2 is about the Qunari, yes, but it ISN'T Hawke's responsibility. It was the Viscount's responsibility and he failed that so he turned to Hawke who gained the Arishok's respect. Furthermore Hawke is able to placate the Arishok, despite REPEATED attacks against them, and the Arishok finally snaps when he his team doesn't return with the Idol because Isabela ran off with it. None of that is Hawke's fault.

 

And Hawke succeeds to maintain the peace until Anders, acting WITHOUT Hawke's knowledge, blows up the Chantry. So once again, you're trying to pin blame on Hawke when it WASN'T their fault.

 

Hawke didn't bring the Idol into Kirkwall, Varric's brother did. Did you not play through the Deep Roads? Hawke, Varric, and co. were locked in the chamber by Varric's brother. Furthermore neither Hawke or Varric were affected by the Idol and had no way of knowing what it did only that it looked valuable. 

 

Leandra made her own decisions and even if Hawke asks she NEVER reveals who her suitor is or that she's going out to meet him. Hawke doesn't control his/her mother's life, Leandra is an ADULT who made  her OWN decisions and died  because of them. None of what happened to Leandra is Hawke's fault.

 

Legacy was about Hawke getting the Carta off their back, they didn't know about the ancient darkspawn mage thing until AFTER they were knee deep in it. Hawke also succeeded as Hawke literally killed the darkspawn mage, Hawke had no way of knowing that the darkspawn Mage could body hop, not even the Grey Warden's with Hawke knew that. Furthermore you IGNORED my previous posts yet again as I ALREADY explained this. Are you intentionally trying to block out everything to try and rationalize your irrational hate of Hawke?

 

Hawke was invited to a party, Hawke didn't know about the stolen Quanari list until Tallis showed up. Hawke than set out to get it back to PREVENT A HOLY WAR. The list being revealed would have caused a Holy War, THAT IS A FACT.

 

So once again, get your information right first before spouting lies and trying to change events to suit your irrational hatred of Hawke.

And again read what i said it isn't about blame only about failure so please stop using word blame replacing word failure.

It isn't hawke responsibility but that is goal of act 2 to prevent that conflict and that was hawke doing for most of hawke save for save mother part in that failed as well... So yes he failed in that matter and goal of act 2.

 

And yet again blame/failure point was to save hawke mother hawke fails in that task no matter what we do blame him or not he failed.

 

And as above read what im saying and as i said you keep saying that i hate hawke and accusing me i don't read why you write despite i explained twice to you that i don't hate hawke and you repeat that over anv over so well...

 

I will repat myself hawke wanted steal from orlesian duke because stranger asked him for it then he let her go with list and yes he knew about that at this point and also his actions there caused as i said problems between kirkwall and orlais.

 

And no i didn't changed events please tell me where i changed events of the game does hawke prevented death of his mother no? well then what is problem?

[Elite Midget]

Calling Hawke a failure IS blaming Hawke, ESPECIALLY when the things you're blaming Hawke about aren't even Hawke's fault. 

 

Once again that's what the Viscount was supposed to do, it fell to Hawke, a random Noble, whether they wanted to get involved or not and Hawke managed to placate the Qunari multiple times even when the Arishok had grounds to rage out multiple times throughout the Act as the attacks against the Qunari kept piling up. Hawke than dealt with the Qunari when they attacked the city so no, Hawke didn't fail. Hawke dealt with a problem that wasn't his/her's in the first place and stopped a Holy War hence why Hawke is made Champion.

 

Read my post next time, please. Hawke didn't fail his/her mother because Hawke isn't his/her mother's keeper. Leandra kept her affair with Quentin a secret from Hawke and is also a grown woman who made her OWN decisions. The only way Hawke could have stopped Leandra from going to her death would have been to lock Leandra in a cellar for the rest of her life and that ISN'T a solution.

 

Accusing you? I'm repeating EXACTLY what you've been saying than pointing out the flaws in your arguments which you've REPEATEDLY tried to twist into being Hawke's fault when it wasn't. If you read my posts you would know this. I'm starting to think there's a language barrier here by the way you're posting.

 

Actually you are. I literally pointed out and explained in GREAT detail on what you're doing and why your "facts" don't hold any water.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Calling Hawke a failure IS blaming Hawke, ESPECIALLY when the things you're blaming Hawke about aren't even Hawke's fault. 

 

Once again that what the Viscount was supposed to do, it fell to Hawke and Hawke managed to placate the Qunari multiple times even when the Arishok had grounds to rage out multiple times throughout the Act as the attacks against the Qunari kept piling up. Hawke than dealt with the Qunari when they attacked the city so no, Hawke didn't fail. Hawke dealt with a problem that wasn't his/her's in the first place hence why Hawke is made Champion.

 

Read my post next time, please. Hawke didn't fail his/her mother because Hawke isn't his/her mother's keeper. Leandra kept her affair with Quentin a secret from Hawke and is also a grown woman who made her OWN decisions. The only way Hawke could have stopped Leandra from going to her death would have been to lock Leandra in a cellar for the rest of her life and that ISN'T a solution.

 

Accusing you? I'm repeating EXACTLY what you'vebeen saying and pointing out the flaws in your arguments which you've REPEATEDLY tried to twist into being Hawke's fault when it wasn't. If you read my posts you would know this. I'm starting to think there's a language barrier here by the way you're posting.

 

Actually you are. I literally pointed out and explained in GREAT detail on what you're doing and why your "facts" don't hold any water.

Omg facepalm hawke is failure (in my opinion as i said) because he failed many times and yes i blame him for some of that failures and that is my opinion....

 

That is ignoring what i said... What hawke was doing for most of second act he was trying prevent escalating conflict did he succeeded no he failed because qunari attacked...

 

So i guess hawke didn't tried to save his mother or he saved his mother because according to you he didn't failed at this task thanks that explains a lot very logical...

 

Yeah so again we using blame instead i was saying he failed.

 

Well please tell me where i changed events in what place give an example...

[Willowhugger]

 

If Hawke was Noir Fantasy they wouldn't have had the upsides they got alongside the downsides. If it was Noir Fantasy than Hawke wouldn't haveended up the beloved Champion that even the Templars respect a great deal even if you went against them all the time.

 

Hawke also has years of happiness as well since even if you choose to kill a romanced Anders you still had 3 years of happiness with him.

 

Noir often ends with small victories.

 

They just end at a heavy cost and don't change the way the world is working.

Look at Sin City. They manage to beat most of the bad guys.

It's just the city is still a [censored]hole.

[TheKomandorShepard]

blahhhhh its always the same with you at least this is funny

I said truth or perhaps you want argue that hawke didn't failed at saving his mother?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Did the Human Noble Warden also fail because he couldn't save his parents, his whole family + castle ?

Did the warden fail at ostagar because they couldn't defeat the darkspawn?

No on both things because he couldn't do anything it was beyond his reach

 

And its the same thing with hawke though others have explained that already in great detail I'm just saying that blaming Hawke for

things that were out of his influence is just not right sure you can still have that opinion but stating your opinion as fact is the silly part

Yes they did you know...

If student fail to do his homework you can blame student , parents or teacher but it doesn't change fact that student failed at doing that...

And as i said to user above i suggests see what is diffrence between word blame and failing at something i explained above...

[Black Jimmy]

Omg facepalm hawke is failure (in my opinion as i said) because he failed many times and yes i blame him for some of that failures and that is my opinion....

 

That is ignoring what i said... What hawke was doing for most of second act he was trying prevent escalating conflict did he succeeded no he failed because qunari attacked...

 

So i guess hawke didn't tried to save his mother or he saved his mother because according to you he didn't failed at this task thanks that explains a lot very logical...

 

Yeah so again we using blame instead i was saying he failed.

 

Well please tell me where i changed events in what place give an example...

I'm thinking the biggest problem here is a language barrier. Would I be correct in guessing English isn't your first language?

 

Your use of the word failure doesn't exactly coincide with what native English speakers think when they use that word.

 

Saying Hawke is a failure as a protagonist implies he's that he's a screw up that can never get the job done, which really isn't the case.

I think you're just trying to he's not 100% successful in his heroics, and thus, you don't enjoy him that much as hero. Is that at all accurate?

 

Or if you mean Hawke's a failure on a more meta level, than that's easily debunked by the fact that people are trying to defend him.

 

On said meta level, I like Hawke as a hero. He's compelling in the way Commander Shepard was in ME2/3 when he started getting his own personality at last. The Warden,  at the moment, is basically just the Avatar for the player, who I wouldn't mind seeing get the Hawke treatment, i.e. get a choice of personalities to choose from at the players descretion.

I can't imagine many others would like that though 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm thinking the biggest problem here is a language barrier. Would I be correct in guessing English isn't your first language?

 

Your use of the word failure doesn't exactly coincide with what native English speakers think when they use that word.

 

Saying Hawke is a failure as a protagonist implies he's that he's a screw up that can never get the job done, which really isn't the case.

I think you're just trying to he's not 100% successful in his heroics, and thus, you don't enjoy him that much as hero. Is that at all accurate?

 

Or if you mean Hawke's a failure on a more meta level, than that's easily debunked by the fact that people are trying to defend him.

 

On said meta level, I like Hawke as a hero. He's compelling in the way Commander Shepard was in ME2/3 when he started getting his own personality at last. The Warden,  at the moment, is basically just the Avatar for the player, who I wouldn't mind seeing get the Hawke treatment, i.e. get a choice of personalities to choose from at the players descretion.

I can't imagine many others would like that though 

This isn't language barrier because as i explained above saying that someone failed at something doesn't mean blaming.

 

What i meant that we spend most of game doing tasks that we ultimately fail at as i provied example leandra death , trying to prevent qunari conflict and more my examples whether hawke is blame of that it is your personal opinion but he still failed at those tasks and you can't do anything to succeed and that was 2/3 of main quests.

 

So to explain better i spend entire act 2 to prevent qunari from attacking near the end no matter what i did they did attacked repeat with my other examples so in my opinion hawke is failure hero wheter you think he isn't is up to you but his failures aren't an opinion they are facts what was my point...

[TTTX]

I think the problem with Hawke is that s/he never seem to use the power s/he has, and s/he doesn't really seem to care when the trouble are hanging in the air. Even when s/he is the Champion s/he just feels like like someone who don't have any power what so ever and even though Hawke has some really powerful friends s/he doesn't seem to use them in game.

 

It does make Hawke look somewhat uncaring ( and I use the term loosely) to what happens to the city, until the Sh*t hits the fan, s/he also doesn't even try to save Thrask that I found a bit odd.

[Mistic]

Hawke was invited to a party, Hawke didn't know about the stolen Quanari list until Tallis showed up. Hawke than set out to get it back to PREVENT A HOLY WAR. The list being revealed would have caused a Holy War, THAT IS A FACT.

 

Mm... I agree with some of your points, but this is glaringly not true.

 

First, Hawke went to that party for Tallis. Duke Prosper can actually point out that it's a bit of a surprise to have Hawke there, despite the invitation. Tallis showed up way before going to the party, and she tagged along after informing Hawke of her plans to steal the Heart of the Many. Which, at that point, was only a rare jewel for Hawke, not a secret that could endanger lots of lives.

 

Second, a holy war? Not even Tallis claims that and her superiors didn't care very much. The list was about spies, and in any conflict they are considered fair-game. Cold, but true. That's a spy's life. As for Hawke, one of the options is actually forgetting about Tallis and trying to get away. And that, at least, ended in failure.

[Willowhugger]

Actually, the term spies is misleading since they're Qun converts.

Will they be a source of information?

Probably.

However, the issue is muddled because the Qun is a theocracy.

[KaanGuner1]

Came here to share my harsh feelings on my Warden not being the canon but this is too much against Hawke!

 

There is a war against the Qunari and Tevinter already. Those spies would just uncover things up. And it's not Hawke's fault that Qunari decided to attack. Hawke is only a person. She has some friends, ok, but what else? Like Warden he didn't had any political role, title, power. So she tried to best she could, maintaining the peace. 

 

Maybe in the Act 3 after maintaining her title she might have done something to overthrown Meredith but Act 3 storyline was extremely short story-time wise.

[Mistic]

Actually, the term spies is misleading since they're Qun converts.

Will they be a source of information?

Probably.

However, the issue is muddled because the Qun is a theocracy.

 

Actually, when asked about the scroll, Tallis outright states:

 

"This is a list of agents throughout Thedas. Qunari, like myself. Many of them have children, family, friends, the people you wouldn't suspect. Some even left the Qun behind, but if this list fell into human hands they and everyone they know..."

"...would be killed."

"The Ariqun believes they knew the risks, but what about the innocents?"

 

I don't know you, but that didn't scream "peaceful Qunari converts by missionnaries" but "spies sent as sleeper cells" to me. Just like Iron Bull, who is exactly an example of what that list could contain.

[SgtSteel91]

The fact that the Qunari don't really care if the list gets out can mean that those 'spies sent as sleeper agents' are not that important to the Qunari's plans. At most they seem like informants about the going ons in Thedas, not people who, at a moments notice, can go and assassinate the Empress, IMO.

[KaanGuner1]

 

Hawke was more of a character on her own than The Warden, i agree. And because of that we had more character development than the The Warden ever could have. But... Why is that such a bad thing for The Warden?

 

I could have played that story 10 times over with different class, race and sex and still would my choices %99 similar if I were to do it whole-heartedly. Maybe because it was such a blank plate that The Warden has more sympathy then Hawke holds in general -which is the case for me too. Plus DA:O felt more like a family with companions having a same place to share, that campfire - made you felt warmer in general. Besides crew interactions were better IMPOV. And the companions themselves... Alistair, Morrigan, Leilana, Sten, Zevran... Maybe Oghren was a bit dwarven-sterotype a bit. DA:2's most loved companion is Varric. He is fun, I agree, but the guy doesn't even have a fixed opinion on matters in a city such as Kirkwall. Origins characters, especially Leilana, Alistair and Morrigan were like a part of the puzzle compared to that.

 

It only makes sense that people like The Warden who romanced Morrigan, did the DR and went with her through the Eluvian because It was all part of the same game. First Dragon Age games was Dragon Age: Origins. People have played it as a whole and one character. I didn't wanted to kill my character because there was a way to survive. And since that way was such a rare and came from a friend, at it's minimum, it's only normal you accept it. Then you take over the Awakening with that exact same character naturally, so is the case for Witch Hunt. So I don't like the idea that my Warden is dead and I have played with some unknown, most importantly unknown to me, through Awakening then hunt the Morrigan with him. Seriously I don't remember it but why the hell would that Warden chase after Morrigan. If the Dark Ritual never happened and if I'm going to fail on killing her while not knowing what she is going to do other than she has his own agenda what was the point of The Witch Hunt? This whole thing doesn't add up to the experience of the first game which established the franchise and still favored over it's sequel. 

 

Random characters popping up are never a good thing either. When we get to know heroes like The Warden and Hawke what value they hold if from the middle of nowhere an Orlesian Commander would pop-up and become basically stood equally to them? I mean it never is such a good idea to abandon a character when you already made it possible to establish him as a character. The Warden going through the DR, Awakening and Witch Hunt is a fit. I don't know how serious this Dalish Elf - Orlesian Commander storyline has been established int their plans so far but this itself is game breaker big enough for me to cut my ties with the franchise. I'm sure lots of people would have the same disappointment regarding to character of The Warden.  So I'm fine with this Warden they have hinted enough with DLCs in Origins being their Warden in his characteristics. But although never established as Cannon the likely hinted scenario of his should stay as hinted.

 

What do you think about regarding to the ideas on Warden?

[KaanGuner1]

By the way Dragon Age 2 has multiple pre-built histories including the Hero of Ferelden and the Dalish Elf... I suppose DA:I will force Dalish Elf on non-importing users?

[Willowhugger]

By the way Dragon Age 2 has multiple pre-built histories including the Hero of Ferelden and the Dalish Elf... I suppose DA:I will force Dalish Elf on non-importing users?

 

There's no importing. Only the Keep.

[TTTX]

There's no importing. Only the Keep.

There is a story in case you don't use the keep.

 

A Dalish Warden who give their lives to stop the blight and mage, Hawke who is mage and sided with mages.

[KaanGuner1]

I meant not importing previous choices through the Keep. Maybe the keep has other pre-built histories and default in-game is going to start with Dalish Elf?

[TTTX]

I meant not importing previous choices through the Keep. Maybe the keep has other pre-built histories and default in-game is going to start with Dalish Elf?

DA:I have a pre-build story, Warden dalish elf dead, Hawke mage side with mages.

 

As for the keep I don't think we know if it has a pre-build story.

[Willowhugger]

DA:I have a pre-build story, Warden dalish elf dead, Hawke mage side with mages.

 

As for the keep I don't think we know if it has a pre-build story.

 

It has a bunch of choices already made but you have alter them.

[Angloassassin]

Don't like posting links - but here's this: 

It's all about the keep, and judging by the looks of it (So far) it looks like you can import your warden/hawke, and it will show all the decisions you made, and you can change them if you wish.