764 réponses à ce sujet

[darkiddd]

What I find interesting... is that wanting to destroy the Chantry gets: "But it's just a fake religion."
 

But wanting to destroy the elves gets: "That's disgusting genocide."

 

Wanting to keep the mages in the Circles sometimes gets: "This is just like people oppressing my X minority."

 

Note:  I don't want to destroy or kill any group in DA - if that must be said.  Nor do I want to kill any NPCs because I dislike the personalities presented

 

As I said people tend to bring their moral values to a game they play, which is completely normal I do it too.

 

So if you are an atheist you'll probably try to destroy the chantry or won't like to help them (I'm generalizing, I know not all will do this and yes I know the chantry are not saints)

 

If you are a religious person then you probably will help the chantry (generalizing again, roleplay is roleplay)

 

Many people have no problem knowing that in Dragon Age there are old dragons considered gods, and demons and spirits, etc... but if Bioware hints at the possibility of the Maker being real many feel threatened, because they perceive the Dragon Age world with the views they have about this world.

 

I'm calling it now, Bioware will hint strongly at the possibility of the Maker being real, but ultimately it will be left to character interpretation.

[General TSAR]

I am...worried. Yet again it appears one my protagonists is doomed to be associated with religious themes,

It's pretty awesome eh?

[falconlord5]

Yeah, not a title I'll be getting in any of my playthroughs.

[Steelcan]

The association of the Inquisition and the Chantry is likely going to be there, I know the devs have said otherwise, but I find it hard to believe that there will be no inter-dependency especially given the make-up of our squad and advisors

 

And based on what we've seen so far it is probably natural for the rest of Thedas to associate the Inquisitor with the Chantry and Andraste.  Furthermore, given the savior nature of the plot based on what we've seen, along with Shepard, I think its likely that we will be seeing a lot of religious parallels and certainly elements of a savior character in the Inquisitor.

 

Am I excited about it?

 

Not really.  I always like more options to role play characters, and role-playing an atheist or even (maker forbid) a follower of the other religious schools such as the Dalish Creators or the Old Gods of Tevinter would be interesting.  That said, if the options do not exist I may be mildly disappointed, but I already planned on playing an Andrastian human

[addiction21]

It's a big difference between wanting to tear down an organization and wanting to commit genocide. And I can't believe I actually had to write that.

 

Edited the phrasing..

 

But its not just a organization its also a belief. You can not just tear down the organized part and believe the rest will just fall in line with your belief.

 

 

[LobselVith8]

What I find interesting... is that wanting to destroy the Chantry gets: "But it's just a fake religion."

 

I was addressing how some people felt about the Chantry of Andraste over issues of magic, mages, and elves, and not necessarily dismantling the organization; however, most of the arguments I've read in favor of players who wanted to see it powerless had to do with the elves and the prohibition of the elven religion, or condemnation over the treatment of mages and the Chantry controlled Circles. Admittedly, there are other issues, of course, but it's seldom because of the Chantry being a religious institution, which was my main point.

 

Clearly, how some people feel about the Chantry might impact whether or not they want their character to be associated with the Andrastian faith, as well as the Dwarven, Vashoth, and Dalish characters having their own cultural and spiritual views.

 

But wanting to destroy the elves gets: "That's disgusting genocide."

 

Wanting to keep the mages in the Circles sometimes gets: "This is just like people oppressing my X minority."

 

Note:  I don't want to destroy or kill any group in DA - if that must be said.  Nor do I want to kill any NPCs because I dislike the personalities presented

 

It's a big difference between wanting to tear down an organization and wanting to commit genocide. And I can't believe I actually had to write that.

 

Pretty much this.

[Medhia_Nox]

Ynqve:  As I said, I don't want to do either (especially since my most despised group, the Dalish, seem hellbent on destroying themselves.).

 

But let me ask... how does one "tear down" an organization without bloodshed?  Hmm?  You think the Romans would have had better luck if they didn't line their roads with crucified Christians?  Destroying this fake religion is called fake ethnic cleansing my friend.  Just like destroying fake race X is fake genocide. 

 

Both are fake petty and barbaric.  I just want people on all angles to admit to their bloodlust instead of the "It's just fake religions." folks deceiving themselves into believing they have some sort of fake moral high ground.

[Master Warder Z_]

But its not just a organization its also a belief. You can not just tear down the organized part and believe the rest will just fall in line with your belief.

 

The Protestant church is proof of that.

 

How many purges did it survive after Martin Luther again?

[LobselVith8]

Ynqve:  As I said, I don't want to do either (especially since my most despised group, the Dalish, seem hellbent on destroying themselves.).

 

But let me ask... how does one "tear down" an organization without bloodshed?  Hmm?  You think the Romans would have had better luck if they didn't line their roads with crucified Christians?  Destroying this fake religion is called fake ethnic cleansing my friend.  Just like destroying fake race X is fake genocide. 

 

Both are fake petty and barbaric.  I just want people on all angles to admit to their bloodlust instead of the "It's just fake religions." folks deceiving themselves into believing they have some sort of fake moral high ground.

 

Well, the Chantry seems to be shattered and possibly impotent (given how Cassandra reacts by separating the Inquisition from the Chantry), so I think it can simply be a matter of not helping the organization and filling in the power vacuum in certain areas with the Inquisition, in terms of acquiring either the templars or the mages, and possibly taking control of the lyrium trade on the surface through an alliance with Orzammar. The Inquisitor's military wielding power in regions throughout Ferelden, Orlais, and the Dales would basically address how the elven pantheon might no longer be criminalized (by overriding the Chantry's edict), or allowing mages autonomy from the Chantry with the Inquisitor supporting the mages in the Mage-Templar War.

 

Therefore, the Inquisitor can shrug off any association with being Andraste's Herald, as well as not helping the Andrastian Chantry directly.

[dragonflight288]

Well, the Chantry seems to be shattered and possibly impotent (given how Cassandra reacts by separating the Inquisition from the Chantry), so I think it can simply be a matter of not helping the organization and filling in the power vacuum in certain areas with the Inquisition, in terms of acquiring either the templars or the mages, and possibly taking control of the lyrium trade on the surface through an alliance with Orzammar. The Inquisitor's military wielding power in regions throughout Ferelden, Orlais, and the Dales would basically address how the elven pantheon might no longer be criminalized (by overriding the Chantry's edict), or allowing mages autonomy from the Chantry with the Inquisitor supporting the mages in the Mage-Templar War.

 

Therefore, the Inquisitor can shrug off any association with being Andraste's Herald, as well as not helping the Andrastian Chantry directly.

 

There is also the possibility that we won't have the option to destroy the Chantry, but we can limit its power considerably so they no longer have the capacity to call Exalted Marches, or even have armed forces and simply be a religious organization without the teeth to sharpen their bite. 

[Ynqve]

But its not just a organization its also a belief. You can not just tear down the organized part and believe the rest will just fall in line with your belief.

Ynqve:  As I said, I don't want to do either (especially since my most despised group, the Dalish, seem hellbent on destroying themselves.).

But let me ask... how does one "tear down" an organization without bloodshed?  Hmm?  You think the Romans would have had better luck if they didn't line their roads with crucified Christians?  

 

Both are petty and barbaric.  I just want people on all angles to admit to their bloodlust instead of the "It's just fake religions." folks deceiving themselves into believing they have some sort of make believe moral high ground.

 

I never said it should be easy or bloodless. I just pointed out that it's a big freaking difference between tearing down an organization and committing genocide. I don't give a damn about the Andrastrian faith in itself, but I really loath the Chantry for their politics. It's like wanting to overthrow a corrupt government or destroying a crime syndicate. It has very little to do with the religion itself. The Chantry is a huge organization with it's own military that abuses and enslaves people, it's easy to justify why you would like to get rid of it. 

 

And just to be clear. When I say tearing down the Chantry, I really do mean tearing down the organization itself. Not crucifying Andrastrians or killing priests on principle. If a new version of the Chantry would arise that doesn't have an army of addicts or promote abuse of elves and mages, then I would have no problem with it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, the Chantry seems to be shattered and possibly impotent (given how Cassandra reacts by separating the Inquisition from the Chantry), so I think it can simply be a matter of not helping the organization and filling in the power vacuum in certain areas with the Inquisition, in terms of acquiring either the templars or the mages, and possibly taking control of the lyrium trade on the surface through an alliance with Orzammar. The Inquisitor's military wielding power in regions throughout Ferelden, Orlais, and the Dales would basically address how the elven pantheon might no longer be criminalized (by overriding the Chantry's edict), or allowing mages autonomy from the Chantry with the Inquisitor supporting the mages in the Mage-Templar War.

 

Therefore, the Inquisitor can shrug off any association with being Andraste's Herald, as well as not helping the Andrastian Chantry directly.

 

I can almost guarantee you none of that is going to be possible.

 

In fact i'd be surprised if the Inquisition survived five years after crisis and that is me being generous.

 

A wandering army without a purpose with fortifications across nations, loitering upon sovereign territory? interfering with matters of governance? Crud the Templars were killed and outlawed for less.

 

That was just money.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ynqve:  So, what you need is about a dozen elven Dreamers... cause while this is fantasy, the concept of just "wishing" away an organization without committing ethnic cleansing is... innocent.

[dragonflight288]

@Ynqve:  So, what you need is about a dozen elven Dreamers... cause while this is fantasy, the concept of just "wishing" away an organization without committing ethnic cleansing is... innocent.

 

Or the Chantry fell on itself because it never really had a firm foundation. 

[General TSAR]

The Chantry is a huge organization with it's own military that abuses and enslaves people,

Nope.

If a new version of the Chantry would arise that doesn't have an army of addicts 

 

Who else is gonna protect the faithful?

[Ynqve]

@Ynqve:  So, what you need is about a dozen elven Dreamers... cause while this is fantasy, the concept of just "wishing" away an organization without committing ethnic cleansing is... innocent.

 

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

Please, do enlighten me as to why you believe that overthrowing a corrupt organization = ethnic cleansing. I'm genuinely curious. 

 

EDIT:

@General TSAR

That's your opinion, I obviously don't agree. 

[Tevinter Rose]

@Ynqve:  So, what you need is about a dozen elven Dreamers... cause while this is fantasy, the concept of just "wishing" away an organization without committing ethnic cleansing is... innocent.

 

Ethnic cleansing? The Chantry is an ethnicity?

[dragonflight288]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

Please, do enlighten me to why you believe that overthrowing a corrupt organization = ethnic cleansing. I'm genuinely curious. 

 

I am as well.

 

At the very most, you'd probably need to exile the leaders to remote areas, or execute the more fanatic and bloodthirsty members who try to rile others up to bloodlust, but for the most part I don't see a need for "cleansing," as it were. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Or the Chantry fell on itself because it never really had a firm foundation. 

 

...A faith doesn't stand for a thousand years without a firm foundation.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ethnic cleansing? The Chantry is an ethnicity?

 

Yup, religious institution qualifies as a "social group" so according to the definition, it is in fact an ethnicity.

[dragonflight288]

...A faith doesn't stand for a thousand years without a firm foundation.

 

Or a lot of sword at the ready to quell any sign of dissent. 

[Ynqve]

I am as well.

 

At the very most, you'd probably need to exile the leaders to remote areas, or execute the more fanatic and bloodthirsty members who try to rile others up to bloodlust, but for the most part I don't see a need for "cleansing," as it were. 

 

Exactly, it's a far cry from genocide. Sure, you can argue and make a strong case about it being morally wrong. But still, it's not even close to ethnic cleansing. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ynqve:  It means exactly what I think it means.  You want to get rid of a religious group because you disapprove of how it acts.  That, along with cultural groups, is exactly what ethnic cleansing means - so please do look up a definition. 

 

Sure, you mask it under a vinier of justifications... what person looking to wipe out an entire group doesn't... but everyone who wants to destroy the Chantry but save the "elves" "mages" "nugs"  and thinks they're somehow "more correct" are full of ****.

 

People... please educate yourself about the term "ethnic cleansing" before speaking.  The definition is just a search engine away.

 

As for why... the people of Thedas aren't the Geth.  You don't just reprogram them.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or a lot of sword at the ready to quell any sign of dissent. 

 

That doesn't really negate the point you know?

 

Beyond that, its common fabric in human society, its part of the daily life of Thedas.

 

It's long since had it's foundation.

[Tevinter Rose]

@Ynqve:  It means exactly what I think it means.  You want to get rid of a religious group because you disapprove of how it acts.  That, along with cultural groups, is exactly what ethnic cleansing means - so please do look up a definition. 

 

Sure, you mask it under a vinier of justifications... what person looking to wipe out an entire group doesn't... but everyone who wants to destroy the Chantry but save the "elves" "mages" "nugs"  and thinks they're somehow "more correct" are full of ****.

 

People... please educate yourself about the term "ethnic cleansing" before speaking.  The definition is just a search engine away.

 

So opposing any religious organization is genocide?

edit: You can't really compare religions to culture, you can choose your religion.