@Tevinter Rose: I believe the term used it "tearing it down". I'm specifically speaking about people who want to destroy the Chantry.
Let it be said, btw, that I don't actually care. By all means, crush away the world in your gameplay. I hope for everyone to get the game state they want (while knowing that's ridiculous and couldn't happen).
What I actually care about is the hypocrisy that plagues the minds of certain forumites.
@Ynqve: It means exactly what I think it means. You want to get rid of a religious group because you disapprove of how it acts. That, along with cultural groups, is exactly what ethnic cleansing means - so please do look up a definition.
Sure, you mask it under a vinier of justifications... what person looking to wipe out an entire group doesn't... but everyone who wants to destroy the Chantry but save the "elves" "mages" "nugs" and thinks they're somehow "more correct" are full of ****.
People... please educate yourself about the term "ethnic cleansing" before speaking. The definition is just a search engine away.
Do I have to quote myself? I guess I do.
And just to be clear. When I say tearing down the Chantry, I really do mean tearing down the organization itself. Not crucifying Andrastrians or killing priests on principle. If a new version of the Chantry would arise that doesn't have an army of addicts or promote abuse of elves and mages, then I would have no problem with it.
PLEASE tell me where I advocate for ethnic cleansing in that statement. Many, many religions have died out over the years. Some did end in genocide, others did not. I'm promoting the latter.
That doesn't really negate the point you know?
Beyond that, its common fabric in human society, its part of the daily life of Thedas.
It's long since had it's foundation.
A foundation that has crumbled with the loss of the templars and the circle of magi, which is a system that also had a weak foundation and it boiling over was inevitable.
They're pretty much impotent and near powerless without them. 
@Ynqve: You don't have to quote yourself, I would suggest following a thought through.
You can't just magic away a belief system...saying you want to borders on just childish wish fulfillment.
Saying you want to "tear it down" comes with conflict, bloodshed, dispossesed believers... rebellion.. .more conflict, crushing resistance.
A foundation that has crumbled with the loss of the templars and the circle of magi
How? It was built on a foundation of belief in the Maker, it adopted the Inquisition because it needed an order to watch over the mages that begged to have haven away from the public.
The loss of either institution is little to nothing, a Faith is a Faith, its world affairs have less then nothing to do with the success of a church, it still receives tithes from nobles, as far as we aware the Lyrium trade is still dominated by them, beyond that what exactly are you advocating here?
That because it somehow lost its army it deserves to be torn down?
@Dragonflight288: Most of our current religions have no armies (I think there's still "officially" a Papal militia) ... and atheist China STILL failed at it's iconoclasm..
@Ynqve: You don't have to quote yourself, I would suggest following a thought through.
You can't just magic away a belief system...saying you want to borders on just childish wish fulfillment.
Saying you want to "tear it down" comes with conflict, bloodshed, dispossesed believers... rebellion.. .more conflict, crushing resistance.
I never said I wanted to get rid of the faith or belief system. I want to get rid of the organization! How is that hard to understand? I would even be fine with a massive reformation! I don't want to persecute andrastrians or force people to convert to my belief. That would be horrible and I would never want that.
People really need to stop saying the Chantry "enslaves" mages, they do nothing of the sort. Tevinter enslaves alot of people & unsurprisingly is ruled by mages, the Chantry & templars defend other nations from falling to magic.
@Ynqve: Then you don't understand how a religion works. A religion is the organization and the belief system and most Andrastians would not simply perceive your conflict with the "organization" as some high brow misguided attempt at liberation.
There is no way, at all, except by utter make belief... that you could destroy the Chantry without bloodshed.
People really need to stop saying the Chantry "enslaves" mages, they do nothing of the sort. Tevinter enslaves alot of people & unsurprisingly is ruled by mages, the Chantry & templars defend other nations from falling to magic.
Whoa! Let's not assume that being against the Chantry's crimes mean that you accept whatever they do in Tevinter. Oppression and slavery is always appalling, no matter where it happens.
@Ynqve: Then you don't understand how a religion works. A religion is the organization and the belief system and most Andrastians would not simply perceive your conflict with the "organization" as some high brow misguided attempt at liberation.
There is no way, at all, except by utter make belief... that you could destroy the Chantry without bloodshed.
Maybe you noticed the fact that I have been using the words faith and belief instead of religion. So yes, I'm aware of how religion works. And I never said it could be done without bloodshed. But bloodshed =/= genocide. Obviously I would prefer it if I could do it without killing anyone, but it's never going to happen. Please, stop putting words in my mouth.
And for the record, I don't think we get the option to destroy the Chantry as an institution. But I do hope we get to completely reform it, and I would be fine with that.
@Dragonflight288: Most of our current religions have no armies (I think there's still "officially" a Papal militia) ... and atheist China STILL failed at it's iconoclasm..
The Chantry no longer has an army either. They deserted when teh Circle of Magi declared Independence.
I never said it should be easy or bloodless. I just pointed out that it's a big freaking difference between tearing down an organization and committing genocide. I don't give a damn about the Andrastrian faith in itself, but I really loath the Chantry for their politics. It's like wanting to overthrow a corrupt government or destroying a crime syndicate. It has very little to do with the religion itself. The Chantry is a huge organization with it's own military that abuses and enslaves people, it's easy to justify why you would like to get rid of it.
And just to be clear. When I say tearing down the Chantry, I really do mean tearing down the organization itself. Not crucifying Andrastrians or killing priests on principle. If a new version of the Chantry would arise that doesn't have an army of addicts or promote abuse of elves and mages, then I would have no problem with it.
Fair enough but putting those to the sword that you have morale differences with is still a cleansing or icide what ever word you want to preface it with. It is a idealogical difference and they are being put down because of that difference. Just call it what it is and you have done such. I lean towards the Chantry being corrupt and needing a major overhaul but agree that mages need to be monitored but not by the draconian methods of the past.
-People have been voicing a take down of the Chantry since Origins. People have been voicing a take down of the Dalish since Origins. People have been voicing a take down of the Qunari since Origins. People like being hardcore and extremist in their fantasy views. Why? Because it is fantasy and they can. This is nothing new or shocking. I advocate genocide against the darkspawn, whether they are intelligent or not.
-The Chantry has lost some if not most of its Templars, not all. It has lost control of the Circle, but doesn't mean that all mages have forsaken it. It stood before the Circle, it won't fall because it lost it. It lost its army, but hasn't lost its religious authority. They can still rally armies from all the Andrastian nations with a call for an Exalted March. However, if BW chooses to have the Chantry fall, nothing can be done about it, so whatever. But, I'd expect chaos and other people trying to set up new Chantries to replace the one that fell or whatever.
-Still, it's nice that you aren't forced to support the Chantry, but I'm glad to see we can play a more intense role with the Chantry.
@dragonflight288: My point is that a religion doesn't need an army to be perfectly fine.
There is no book I've read - nor game I have played - that has stated that the Chantry is collapsing. If there's some demon from Inquisition that blurted it out... I would imagine hyperbole wouldn't be beneath it to use.
"IF" the Divine dies in Inquisition... I wouldn't be worried, the Popes died all the time and not just because of old age.
Where did you see this crumbling foundation? I'd like quotes if you can manage it.
Note: I am not saying there isn't upheaval... but in times of upheaval... the first place people run toward is their faith (or whatever it is they believe in, government, science, whatever)
Actually the seekers of truth, which Cassandra is a member of, works for the Divine / Chantry.The Chantry no longer has an army either. They deserted when teh Circle of Magi declared Independence.
Actually the seekers of truth, which Cassandra is a member of, works for the Divine / Chantry.
15 people and a turnip does not an army make.
15 Lol. Apart from Lambert, we don't know what happened to the rest of them, don't recall learning of their demise?15 people and a turnip does not an army make.
Lol. Apart from Lambert, we don't know what happened to the rest of them, don't recall learning of their demise?
It's not that they're 'all dead', it's just that there wasn't that many of them to begin with.
The seekers where a dwindling order to start with, throw in some of them go native with the temps and start hunting mages, there's not many boots left for my gal Cass to boss about.
But that's a moot point, and veering off topic,
SO if people would like to get back to slapping each other over the importance of imaginary believe systems, we can get this topic back on track.
*smacks TheDragonofWhy* I don't condone slapping... it's barbaric and it disgusts me that anyone would even pretend slap. *smacks TheDragonofWhy again*
15 Lol. Apart from Lambert, we don't know what happened to the rest of them, don't recall learning of their demise?
Lambert had THREE, three of them with him in the White Spire when he confronted the conclave.
Actually the seekers of truth, which Cassandra is a member of, works for the Divine / Chantry.
Edit: The seekers of truth were also part of the first inquisition.
The seekers have separated from the Chantry to hunt mages. Cassandra is actually one of the few seekers left who works for the Chantry.
The Chantry no longer has an army either. They deserted when teh Circle of Magi declared Independence.
they can call the banners of faithful nations
the templars were never a force capable of waging an independent war against entire nations
Lambert had THREE, three of them with him in the White Spire when he confronted the conclave.
I do not recall learning about this anywhere, some reference or so would be appreciated.The seekers have separated from the Chantry to hunt mages. Cassandra is actually one of the few seekers left who works for the Chantry.
UserIf this has been asked I'm sorry, but will all inquisitors be called the Herald of Andraste or will title depend on the PC?That's sort of a spoiler. Rest assured, I believe we handle it in a way devout Andrastians and atheists alike can take.
So the Inquisitor name isn't Herald Andraste?
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