Ethnic cleansing? The Chantry is an ethnicity?
Uhm... Yes? Ethnicity is cultural, not racial. So yes, the Chantry and its follwoers could be considered an ethnicity. The targetting of a specific group, religious, political, racial or otherwise with the purpose of their destruction IS genocide. What is being advocated against the Chantry IS genocide.
Uhm... Yes? Ethnicity is cultural, not racial. So yes, the Chantry and its follwoers could be considered an ethnicity. The targetting of a specific group, religious, political, racial or otherwise with the purpose of their destruction IS genocide. What is being advocated against the Chantry IS genocide.
Ehh. Even if it's true, I don't necessarily agree that it's a bad thing. Some cultures are terrible and need to die. Not that I think the Chantry does, of course, but still.
Ehh. Even if it's true, I don't necessarily agree that it's a bad thing. Some cultures are terrible and need to die. Not that I think the Chantry does, of course, but still.
If a culture "needs to die" then it shouldn't be through persecution and genocide, but through actual unviability and self-caused disasters. No one deserves to die for being born to the "wrong parents" or for believing a certain way.
To stick my hand in a jar of bees, could Herald of Andraste just be just Inq's name with the Avaars? Maybe the Dalish will have a different name for the person sealing the fade rifts, having to do with their impression of who Inq is. I really don't think it has much to do with the actual Chantry.
I kinda shake my head at the people expressing such militant opposition to a notion we know so little about at this point. I don't mean the opposition of the Chantry - indeed, I too would like to deconstruct the current system, even if I think its outright destruction is a shortsighted and nigh-impossible notion. I mean this whole "Herald of Andraste" business. Yeah, some just don't like the notion of a divine superior existing at all, but what if you legitimately turn out to be Andraste's herald? Is this such a vile notion to be opposed at every turn? Wouldn't this be proof that divine forces exist, thus disproving atheism? Do the perks not outweigh the downsides? What if this puts you in the position to reorganize certain systems to your choosing?
Bottom line: I think that simply knowing that the title exists is insufficient reason to aggravate your blood pressure.
EmperorSahlertz, on 17 Aug 2014 - 7:17 PM, said:
Uhm... Yes? Ethnicity is cultural, not racial. So yes, the Chantry and its follwoers could be considered an ethnicity. The targetting of a specific group, religious, political, racial or otherwise with the purpose of their destruction IS genocide. What is being advocated against the Chantry IS genocide.
If a culture "needs to die" then it shouldn't be through persecution and genocide, but through actual unviability and self-caused disasters. No one deserves to die for being born to the "wrong parents" or for believing a certain way.
I still refuse to count philosophies as an ethnicity. By that logic, the Allies committed genocide on the Nazi's in WWII by killing them all with the specific intention of eradicating their poisonous beliefs for all time. Which I'm totally down with. Genocide applies to people groups, not beliefs.
To stick my hand in a jar of bees, could Herald of Andraste just be just Inq's name with the Avaars? Maybe the Dalish will have a different name for the person sealing the fade rifts, having to do with their impression of who Inq is. I really don't think it has much to do with the actual Chantry.
But I don't think the Avaar worship Andraste, just an assortment of nature-oriented gods. I highly doubt they would come up with that moniker on their own.
I still refuse to count philosophies as an ethnicity. By that logic, the Allies committed genocide on the Nazi's in WWII by killing them all with the specific intention of eradicating their poisonous beliefs for all time. Which I'm totally down with. Genocide applies to people groups, not beliefs.
Technically they did not, since people were not being targeted for specifically being Nazis. They were being targeted for being enemy soldiers. They didn't (officially) target any civillian population, even if there were confirmed Nazis amongst them, nor did they exterminate any captured Nazis out of hand. So no, what happened to the Nazis in WW2 and its wake was not genocide.
Genocide applies to ALL groups. Be they political, social, racial or ethnic.
I still refuse to count philosophies as an ethnicity. By that logic, the Allies committed genocide on the Nazi's in WWII by killing them all with the specific intention of eradicating their poisonous beliefs for all time. Which I'm totally down with. Genocide applies to people groups, not beliefs.
It does apply to beliefs
It does apply to beliefs
if it applies to religions, then I don't think you can draw the line at other beliefs
Technically they did not, since people were not being targeted for specifically being Nazis. They were being targeted for being enemy soldiers. They didn't (officially) target any civillian population, even if there were confirmed Nazis amongst them, nor did they exterminate any captured Nazis out of hand. So no, what happened to the Nazis in WW2 and its wake was not genocide.
Genocide applies to ALL groups. Be they political, social, racial or ethnic.
Ahh, but in the wake of WWII, the Allies attacked the Nazi philosophies and stamped out it's ideologies, trying to eliminate it and it's culture. Surely this systemic persecution of the Nazi ethnicity counts as a genocide? The poor dears.
Ahh, but in the wake of WWII, the Allies attacked the Nazi philosophies and stamped out it's ideologies, trying to eliminate it and it's culture. Surely this systemic persecution of the Nazi ethnicity counts as a genocide? The poor dears.
Unless they were being killed for their beliefs, that's not genocide.
I kind of just see this as a nickname. Once you have given it you can't ever get rid of it. It is kind of out your control as to how you got it. You just know that you walked out of the Fade. And now, people think you where sent by the Maker to save the world.
@dragonflight288: My point is that a religion doesn't need an army to be perfectly fine.
I agree. My point is that this is the very first time that the Chantry has had to face the world without one.
If a culture "needs to die" then it shouldn't be through persecution and genocide, but through actual unviability and self-caused disasters. No one deserves to die for being born to the "wrong parents" or for believing a certain way.
I agree, but I haven't really seen anyone argue against this, or at least not in this discussion. The only people that I would consider killing when it comes to the Chantry, are those who attack me first. And they wouldn't really die because of their beliefs, they would die because they tried to kill me. It's self defense. I will gladly spare anyone who lay down their weapon and I would accept their surrender.
I kind of just see this as a nickname. Once you have given it you can ever get rid of it. It is kind of out your control as to how you got it. You just know that you walked out of the Fade. And now, people think you where sent by the Maker to save the world.
This is what I think, and I'm pretty sure that we will have many dialogue options to agree with or deny the title... we can probably even use it to our advantage in various ways if we want. But it's about how the public views you and there's not much you can do to prevent that sometimes.
Unless they were being killed for their beliefs, that's not genocide.
"Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing of members of the group; ( 
Causing of serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; © Deliberate inflicting on the group's conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing of measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) Forcible transferring of children of the group to another group."
So, we totally executed a bunch of Nazi's for faithfully following their beliefs, I'm sure plenty of young nazi's experience mental harm from Allied propaganda, we did surround them with an environment dedicated to the destruction of Nazism, and devout Nazi's were deemed unfit parents, and their children were taken away.
You're right, it wasn't genocide. It was quadruple genocide!
This brings up the argument of whether it is justifiable to exterminate a culture or ideaology
Did the Aztecs deserve to have their culture eliminated because their religion demanded the sacrifice of innocents in vast numbers?
anyways, getting too off topic
This brings up the argument of whether it is justifiable to exterminate a culture or ideaology
Did the Aztecs deserve to have their culture eliminated because their religion demanded the sacrifice of innocents in vast numbers?
Hells yeah! Although in fairness, what replaced it was little better.
anyways, getting too off topic
I agree. This thread may wind up locked if we don't steer away from the real world issues... I won't be discussing it further because I don't want to be responsible for that.
I agree. My point is that this is the very first time that the Chantry has had to face the world without one.
It's the second time. The Chantry existed before the first Inquisition. They didn't flourish, and spread to most of Thedas until the two organizations joined forces, but the Chantry existed and spread the Chant before having a military arm...
It could be said that the Chantry has always had the Orlesian military doing it's bidding, and such a statement would be true... And it's unclear whether or not losing the templars/seekers would also result in the Chantry losing the Orlesian military...
Can we stay away from real world examples? It will only make things worse.
It's the second time. The Chantry existed before the first Inquisition. They didn't flourish, and spread to most of Thedas until the two organizations joined forces, but the Chantry existed and spread the Chant before having a military arm...
It could be said that the Chantry has always had the Orlesian military doing it's bidding, and such a statement would be true... And it's unclear whether or not losing the templars/seekers would also result in the Chantry losing the Orlesian military...
if anything the Chantry serves at the beck and call of Orlais, Drakon used it to justify his conquests, not the other way around
I still refuse to count philosophies as an ethnicity. By that logic, the Allies committed genocide on the Nazi's in WWII by killing them all with the specific intention of eradicating their poisonous beliefs for all time.
They did ._.
Off topic tangent relating to the statement in question.
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