People feeling strongly opposed to the Chantry doesn't equate to how they feel about real world religions, since most of the people I know who dislike the Chantry aren't atheist, and are religious. That's what I was trying to get across.
or any other group in game
@Char: I'm sorry that you've never had a positive experience with religion. I must say that you seem like the most rational secular voice I've heard on the topic so far. I am also confident that you will not be disappointed in not having to embrace religiosity in your playthru.
My entire point however was that the term "herald" is secular. It is no different than "refugee" or "warden (or "hero of").
Yes, Andraste has become a religious icon - but we still have zero knowledge of how the speech that uses that term plays into the game, or if it is even avoidable altogether by those who would rather not wish to be associated with topics they feel uncomfortable with.
Though - that would beg the question - does that not open up a can of worms about a LOT of things people are uncomfortable with? Should all things that could make people uncomfortable be excised from games? And if the alternative is inclusion of all things - how can a truly cohesive story ever explore ANY topic?
I see a definate resemblance.
As do I. I think it would make sense that the Dalish protagonist could believe this figure to be the Creator Falon'Din.
I question that "Someone must've created it" is the default assumption in absence of any real knowledge. Creator gods always run into the question of who has created them, and if nothing has, then given the absence of evidence, the same assumption is more plausibly made about the world in the first place. So while not exactly illogical, a creator god is certainly a very odd claim to make. Other gods don't run into the same kind of problem, though in both cases the main question is "are they deserving of worship?" - which is what this topic is ultimately about.
I wouldn't want to be co-opted by an ideology that counts someone as worthy of worship if I don't. I can't have complete control over how I am perceived by the world, but I want a say in it.
Getting more into the matters of DAI's story, another question is "are we supposed to associate 'Andraste' with that Fade spirit in the trailer?" I say the story is highly suggestive in that regard and as such appears to support a religious angle much more than a non-religious one which would regard the Fade as a dimension in which what people believe can become manifest, and the spirit owing its appearance to that fact.
Well from a theological perpective God is God because he created everything. You can ask "But who created him?" and that would be a fair point but again that's why he is God. Every cause has an effect, and every effect generates another cause, and on and on. God would be the effect without a cause, or the cause uncaused. God simply is, he is a timeless and spaceless intelligent being that created time and space - the universe. So beings like us humans living in the universe and are bound by its laws could not even understand something that is outside their little bubble and is not affected by the laws of the universe.
Now in the world of Dragon Age does the Maker deserve worship? this is a very interesting question because reading the lore we see that even though the Maker is inspired in the judeo-christian God the Maker is nothing like the judeo-christian God.
The Maker seems to be very whimsical and distant, he doesn't seem to care much about mankind. Even his attributes seem to not be too godly at all but I guess that's what happens when the God of a fantasy world is thought up by people in a desk. Any God invented by people tends to fall short if you compare it with the real deal.
With the introduction of The Elder one, who seems to play the part of Satan, it seems that Bioware wants to point at the existence of the Maker, after all when the bad guy says that God doesn't exist you know God exists. But they won't show undeniable proof of the Maker or Andraste's existence (as his "bride" at least, Andraste existed in the world of Dragon Age) because they want to please all audiences, atheists, agnostics and believers. They will leave it as a mystery and up to player interpretation.
I read it earlier, but I didn't have anything to add. I'm aware of the history with Drakon, Orlais, the Chantry, and the Inquisition that became the Seekers of Truth and the Order of Templars; however, my earlier points were mainly addressing that some people dislike the Chantry of Andraste for one reason or another, and it's seldom an issue of the organization simply being a religion. I'm also not looking to debate the morality of the Chantry or whether they're right or wrong, as it'll sidetrack us from the actual discussion (and it's an issue that people disagree on strongly).
People feeling strongly opposed to the Chantry doesn't equate to how they feel about real world religions, since most of the people I know who dislike the Chantry aren't atheist, and are religious. That's what I was trying to get across.
As for the war with the Dales, there are two historical accounts (the Chantry and the Dalish version), and each one blames the other as the instigator of the war. The developers refuse to confirm which account is the correct one.
On Twitter:
@PatrickWeekes If this has been said I'm sorry, but will all inquisitors be called the Herald of Andraste or will title depend on the PC?
Patrick Weekes: That's sort of a spoiler. Rest assured, I believe we handled it in a way devout Andrastians and atheists alike can take.
well lobselvith tried to be reasonable. but i still dont get why atheists hav a problem with a damned in game title. they take things way too seriously. okay, since they cant destroy religion in the real world, they want to destroy it in the game world but now that it appears they cant do so, they are anxious. We get that part, the part i dont get is why ppl are sweating over a game
Well i dont associate with secularism positively. I want to help humanity through religious teaching and charity. But i digress, the game painted the chantry and templars in da2 as evil as they cud. it went against what i wanted. i didnt make any posts anywhere saying that i wud burn down everything related to da coz it didnt go as i wanted. It is just a game, take it easy. If the game makes u a symbol of religious glory think of all the good youll be doing. anyway remember its just a game.
Pretty much what you said. Just wanted to say that the chantry is like a coin. Dont make one side of it make the other ambiguous. There are both sides. After much evaluation i think the chantry doesnt deserve destruction as many in this thread want.
Plus, im sure well find out more about them. I think they will have allegations about turning mages tranquil for finance, causing templars to be addicted to lyrium on purpose, deep political roots into orlais, and ofcourse corruption. Wonder how that will affect ppl's gameplay. Personally, i wud overturn the entire clergy and replace them.
I would love to weed out the corruption in the Chantry
As do I. I think it would make sense that the Dalish protagonist could believe this figure to be the Creator Falon'Din.
one bad apple means theres plenty more. the whole clergy wud need to be overturnedI would love to weed out the corruption in the Chantry
one bad apple means theres plenty more. the whole clergy wud need to be overturned
I wouldn't mind replacing them with people with less bias
Falon'Din, well not the first thing i wud want. But hey he seems to be one of the nice guys in elven lore. Im sure he is a spirit. Just a generic spirit of hope wud do for me.
I'm simply talking about the elven Inquisitor might see it (as one possible option for the player), given their cultural and religious upbringing, as well as how some of the People could interpret it as well. There is a similarity in the appearance of the two figures:
What if, and this is a big if, the spirit changes depending on your race?
It probably won't happen, but it would be funny if that would happen.
religious persecution in the west is non existent. if anything its the religious ones who are ridiculed and sometimes well apartheited. i wud know, trust me.I have no wish to destroy religion in the real world, I only wish that it would stop being an excuse to persecute others. I would like religion to keep to it's ability to draw people together and give them hope and companionship- something I think is possible, and should be encouraged. I think much of the distress comes from people preferring to be able to choose, and not be limited in the development of their characters, as much as religious beliefs.
I will take the game as a positive learning experience if I must play as a religious character, and I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with the secular community. Many of us have become accustomed to being defensive and/or ridiculing people of faith because not being a believer can be a harsh experience at times- I've had people assume instantly that I must be hateful or untrustworthy simply because I believe the reward for my good deeds is in this lifetime, in the lives of people I've volunteered with and in the memories of my friends.
If the Maker didn't imprison the Old Gods of Tevinter, who did?
The Dalish creators make no mention of them or the origin of the darkspawn beyond "its another thing the humans did", the Stone is not a sentient being
Well it occurred after their gods "ceased" talking to them, if they ever did at all.
It would be obvious that the Dalish Pantheon weren't involved, the entire series of events happened after they were locked away, assuming they existed period and the Dalish weren't being strung along with a Pride demon with a chip on it's shoulder.
I don't like the idea od mages have "smarter" conversation options than any other class, besides I imagine that will be handled with all the grace of a hippo in a tutu. I sense a "you are the inquisitor its what you do and thats the end of that"
There isn't really any inherent cultural bias with Andraste herself. The elves recognized her as a great leader and joined her rebellion, and surfacer dwarves are certainly going to be at least familiar with her.
Bodan Fedic is Andrastian, As is that other Surface Dwarf who wanted the Chantry opened.
Surface Dwarves seem to be alright with the idea of the "Maker" 
What if, and this is a big if, the spirit changes depending on your race?
It probably won't happen, but it would be funny if that would happen.
It would definitely be an elegant spin on the old "I appear to you as you would perceive me to look" approach that a lot of supernatural or extra-planar entities seem to take when dealing with mortal, earthbound folk in fantasy fiction.
and more devout. that mage Keilli in DAO is a pretty good start. then ill hire that mother at ostahar if shes still alive.I wouldn't mind replacing them with people with less bias
I'm simply talking about the elven Inquisitor might see it (as one possible option for the player), given their cultural and religious upbringing, as well as how some of the People could interpret it as well. There is a similarity in the appearance of the two figures:
Now I'm hoping there's an Armor of Andraste to appear in the game
and more devout. that mage Keilli in DAO is a pretty good start. then ill hire that mother at ostahar if shes still alive.
Why would a delusional and suicidal mage be a good place to start?
The green lady looks too much like the statue of Falon'Din to be a mere coincidence
Hawke: It cannot be a coincidence? It sounds exactly like a coincidence!
this now this i wanted to say. Hats off to u sir, our minds think alike.Well from a theological perpective God is God because he created everything. You can ask "But who created him?" and that would be a fair point but again that's why he is God. Every cause has an effect, and every effect generates another cause, and on and on. God would be the effect without a cause, or the cause uncaused. God simply is, he is a timeless and spaceless intelligent being that created time and space - the universe. So beings like us humans living in the universe and are bound by its laws could not even understand something that is outside their little bubble and is not affected by the laws of the universe.
Now in the world of Dragon Age does the Maker deserve worship? this is a very interesting question because reading the lore we see that even though the Maker is inspired in the judeo-christian God the Maker is nothing like the judeo-christian God.
The Maker seems to be very whimsical and distant, he doesn't seem to care much about mankind. Even his attributes seem to not be too godly at all but I guess that's what happens when the God of a fantasy world is thought up by people in a desk. Any God invented by people tends to fall short if you compare it with the real deal.
With the introduction of The Elder one, who seems to play the part of Satan, it seems that Bioware wants to point at the existence of the Maker, after all when the bad guy says that God doesn't exist you know God exists..
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