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[Ieldra]

@Ieldra2:  I certainly have no knowledge that provides me with greater insight, but I absolutely believe you will not be forced to celebrate the Chantry, Andraste or the Maker.
 
Here's to hoping I am right.  While I "might" consider being devout (just because I hate mouthy bad guys) - I'll probably be non-Andrastian at the core, but absolutely fight for the rights of Andrastians to believe in their faith (as this is close to how I am concerning real world religion).

Absolutely. The problem, though, is that a functional religion is always somewhat political. Religion is, after all, a social phenomenon, more than just individual belief. What (most) other people believe is ultimately irrelevant to me, but what policies they support as a result of their belief, that is not. The concept of the separation of church and state does not seem to be well-developed in Thedas, so I guess if we can influence policy as the Inquisitor, we'd have a hard time keeping certain policies from creeping in through religious channels. Not that I expect DAI to simulate such. I like the strategic elements they added quite a bit, but I don't think it will get this deep.

[Ieldra]

I posit that "Herald of Andraste" suggest that the Chantry, or elements of it (potentally including the Circle and/or the templars) associates something positive of the Inquisitor, rather than vice-versa.  Even if that associaton might be as a Dark Messiah
 
Remember, we have only heard others address the Inquisitor as such.  We have not heard the Inquisitor say anything like, "i am the Herald of Andraste"

I think how this comes across will depend on the options we have to express our characters in this matter. An Inquisitor who's called "Herald of Andraste" and hates it can be interesting to play if the game lets me. An Inquisitor who puts an Imperial Chantry-like spin on Andraste would also be interesting.

[Milan92]

The potential to manipulate the faith itself due to the fact that everyone believes you are its prophet's prophet is pretty interesting. Maybe I shouldn't be so hasty to deny this new title...

 

Instead of the Elder One, its the inquisitor that shall say "Bow before your new god and be spared.".

[Feybrad]

They shall submit to the Qun.

 

That is all.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Instead of the Elder One, its the inquisitor that shall say "Bow before your new god and be spared.".

 

Hail to the king.

[Ieldra]

Instead of the Elder One, its the inquisitor that shall say "Bow before your new god and be spared.".

Nah. I'd rather say "Follow me and you'll become as gods."

[Medhia_Nox]

 I would say:  "There is nothing but you and the mire!  Toil and tears are your ONLY salvation.  Death your only reward. NOW DIG!" 

 

Yeah - I'm all about the good times. 

[Iakus]

Sure, the Dalish protagonist could look positively on Andraste, but I think divine intervention is another matter entirely. Velanna expressed admiration for Andraste, but she didn't revere her in the same way that Leliana did, as a divinely blessed figure. I don't think it's likely the Dalish protagonist would presume that Andraste bequeathed this power to the protagonist, considering that the elven protagonist doesn't follow the Andrastian faith and doesn't view her with any "special abilities". Andraste was a secular war leader to the Dalish, so I think the protagonist would view this encounter differently than the human protagonist will. 

Depends on how the Dalish view the afterlife.  I'm not sure if they believe spirits return to the Fade or not.  But if they do, a Dalish Inquisitor could plausibly believe this ability was given to them by Andraste or a similar figure without believing the powers are divinely gifted..

 

I mean, Justice was able to infuse the Warden-Commander's weapons with something that allowed them to seal Fade Rifts in the Blackmarsh.

 

Something tells me this whole situation will ultimately fall under the Thedas version of Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane

[Vilegrim]

Perhaps it is because games tend to be focused toward a younger crowd, but mages presented in the game do nothing but resort to violence.  Violence that disregards anyone but themselves and their personal agenda.  This, for me, completely negates anything they're trying to say. 
 

 

 

 

Then the Chantry can't say anything either, no faction in Thedas can if using force invalidates what they say.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Vilegrim:  That is simply not correct.  

 

Not every factions FIRST choice is to resort to violence. 

 

In three books and two games - I have yet to see any attempt at civil resistance.  What I have seen is mages like Jowan resorting to blood magic out of jealousy and weakness - then using it for his own selfish desires.  Same with Zathrian, Connor, Uldred, Avernus, Adrian, Orsino, the Kirkwall killer (can't remember his name) and - of course - Anders. 

 

Yes, of course you can point to a host of sick Templars.  You will not find me their allies either (unless they come to heel). 

 

This is what comes of an "ends justify the means mentality" -  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it in the process that he does not become a monster." 

[Aimi]

the Kirkwall killer (can't remember his name)

Quentin.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You know the main point of my whole Gumbydraste comparison thing was that it doesn't really seem to me to resemble anyone we know of. So why would the Inquisitor have to believe that it came from the Creators or Andraste or any of their potential gods at all. Maybe it's someone new.

[CronoDragoon]

In three books and two games - I have yet to see any attempt at civil resistance.  What I have seen is mages like Jowan resorting to blood magic out of jealousy and weakness - then using it for his own selfish desires.  Same with Zathrian, Connor, Uldred, Avernus, Adrian, Orsino, the Kirkwall killer (can't remember his name) and - of course - Anders. 

 

What Orsino was doing at the beginning of Act 3 is pretty much the definition of civil resistance. Elthina basically told him to shut the **** up.

[Vilegrim]

@Vilegrim:  That is simply not correct.  

 

Not every factions FIRST choice is to resort to violence. 

 

In three books and two games - I have yet to see any attempt at civil resistance.  What I have seen is mages like Jowan resorting to blood magic out of jealousy and weakness - then using it for his own selfish desires.  Same with Zathrian, Connor, Uldred, Avernus, Adrian, Orsino, the Kirkwall killer (can't remember his name) and - of course - Anders. 

 

Yes, of course you can point to a host of sick Templars.  You will not find me their allies either (unless they come to heel). 

 

This is what comes of an "ends justify the means mentality" -  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it in the process that he does not become a monster." 

 

 

The Chantries is, they have a  standing kill all non-believers order.   The mages tried civil disobedience, they tried talking and debating and arguing...and nothing changed, if anything things got worse, then they got violent, when they where being purged, they fought back.

[90s Luke]

I had a thought.

 

Given that Andraste was an Alamarri barbarian who rejected her culture's beliefs, what if the Elder One is some sort of avatar for Korth the Mountain-Father? We have seen Avvar barbarians (an offshoot of the Alamarri who rejected unification) in gameplay videos.

[LobselVith8]

Depends on how the Dalish view the afterlife.  I'm not sure if they believe spirits return to the Fade or not.  But if they do, a Dalish Inquisitor could plausibly believe this ability was given to them by Andraste or a similar figure without believing the powers are divinely gifted..

 

I mean, Justice was able to infuse the Warden-Commander's weapons with something that allowed them to seal Fade Rifts in the Blackmarsh.

 

Something tells me this whole situation will ultimately fall under the Thedas version of Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane

 

The Dalish believe the halla guide the dead into the afterlife. Andraste isn't someone who would stand out for the Dalish; she was a war leader who Shartan sided with against the Imperium. You could be right about someone similar, however; someone more closely associated with elven culture, or the pantheon of Creators who are followed in the elven religion. I think what happens in the Beyond will be colored by the background and spiritual view of every protagonist - ideally, every main character will see the situation differently.

[TheEternalStudent]

The Dalish believe the halla guide the dead into the afterlife. Andraste isn't someone who would stand out for the Dalish; she was a war leader who Shartan sided with against the Imperium. You could be right about someone similar, however; someone more closely associated with elven culture, or the pantheon of Creators who are followed in the elven religion. I think what happens in the Beyond will be colored by the background and spiritual view of every protagonist - ideally, every main character will see the situation differently.

I think the Dalish could appreciate Andraste better than anyone else in Andrasteism. An opressed group, thinks they have a chance at freedom, only to be betrayed. Andraste was cool to the Dales, it's the people that followed her that treated them poorly.
Though how well versed the Dalish are on Ancient Age history is unclear.

[LobselVith8]

You know the main point of my whole Gumbydraste comparison thing was that it doesn't really seem to me to resemble anyone we know of. So why would the Inquisitor have to believe that it came from the Creators or Andraste or any of their potential gods at all. Maybe it's someone new.

 

It's too late; Gumydraste is now a serious contender for the enigmatic figure in the Beyond. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If it is Andraste who gives us our power, chances are she will identify herself as such. That way no matter what race we play, them saying we got our power from Andraste is accurate. 

[LobselVith8]

I think the Dalish could appreciate Andraste better than anyone else in Andrasteism. An opressed group, thinks they have a chance at freedom, only to be betrayed. Andraste was cool to the Dales, it's the people that followed her that treated them poorly.
Though how well versed the Dalish are on Ancient Age history is unclear.

 

I'm not arguing the Dalish protagonist would automatically hate her; Velanna expressed her admiration for Andraste, even if the elven protagonist argued that Andraste simply used their ancestors for their own ends. I simply don't think the Dalish main character would see Andraste as a divinely touched figure, in the way that someone who adheres to the Andrastian faith would. The Dalish don't see Andraste as a divine figure; to them, she was a war leader. It's a stretch to go from 'war leader' to spirit with 'divine powers'.

 

Logically, the Dalish, Dwarven, and Vashoth protagonist would see the figure through the spectrum of their own background, which would differentiate it from the experience of the human character.

[Iakus]

The Dalish believe the halla guide the dead into the afterlife. Andraste isn't someone who would stand out for the Dalish; she was a war leader who Shartan sided with against the Imperium. You could be right about someone similar, however; someone more closely associated with elven culture, or the pantheon of Creators who are followed in the elven religion. I think what happens in the Beyond will be colored by the background and spiritual view of every protagonist - ideally, every main character will see the situation differently.

It may also be colored by the events around the Breach itself.

 

After all, it occurs at a location where the Sacred Ashes had been kept for a thousand years, guarded by numerous Fade Spirits that took the form of her followers (or may in fact have been the spirits of her followers) And thousands of Andrastreans of various stripes of belief are killed in that location.  A creature of the Fade may think it only makes sense to take on the form of Andraste.  They imitate what they see in the waking world, after all.

[Darkly Tranquil]

@Vilegrim:  That is simply not correct.  
 
Not every factions FIRST choice is to resort to violence. 
 
In three books and two games - I have yet to see any attempt at civil resistance.  What I have seen is mages like Jowan resorting to blood magic out of jealousy and weakness - then using it for his own selfish desires.  Same with Zathrian, Connor, Uldred, Avernus, Adrian, Orsino, the Kirkwall killer (can't remember his name) and - of course - Anders. 
 
Yes, of course you can point to a host of sick Templars.  You will not find me their allies either (unless they come to heel). 
 
This is what comes of an "ends justify the means mentality" -  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it in the process that he does not become a monster."

There is no scope for mages to negotiate with the Chantry; a slave does not negotiate with his master, he obeys or he dies. If the slave wants freedom, his only choice is to rise up and slay his master. The only way the mages can ever be anything but the Chantry's slaves is to fight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There is no scope for mages to negotiate with the Chantry; a slave does not negotiate with his master, he obeys or he dies. If the slave wants freedom, his only choice is to rise up and slay his master. The only way the mages can ever be anything but the Chantry's slaves is to fight.

The Mages are not slaves of the Chantry. David Gaider himself has put this notion down a couple years ago. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

The Mages are not slaves of the Chantry. David Gaider himself has put this notion down a couple years ago.

Can you link the post? I would be interested to see it, because it looks an awful lot like slavery to me.