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The Elder One Discussion/Worship Thread - Old Gods Need Love Too!


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#76
DKJaigen

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Maybe Andraste did a lot more than just kick the Tevinter Imperium's ass...

 

Yeah.. I cant help but think that as well, but what did she do? How much did she truly knew about magical threats? Perhaps whatever it is she knew was what motivated her to march against Tevinter and the whole "bride of the Maker" thing was just a title atributed to her.

 

This is definite a nice theory. But it could also be the exact opposite. that andraste was manipulated in destroying the only empire at the moment who would have the knowledge and ability to stop the elder one. 


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#77
CapivaRasgor

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If the Black Prison theory is true, it would all make much sense. It would mean that Thedas was doomed to destruction the moment the Fade Walk happened. If the darkspawn didn't kill them all (lucky Grey Warden bastards), other stupid Magisters would recreate the experiment or fall prey to the Elder One's machinations, and unleash the Beast onto the world. Even the Old Gods can't save humanity, since they couldn't save themselves. Maker or not, it's really as if the gods have abandoned Thedas.

Then a woman has a revelation. The source doesn't matter, the important thing is that she knows that humanity has to change paths or is certain doom for everyone. And the first Exalted March began.


That has me wondering. Was Andraste really a phrophet or was she just a very charismatic leader? This could be just the years of christian bias that I’m exposed to daily by my family talking but… she waged war on the Imperium, she didn’t go around the place performing miracles, preaching about love&peace and martyring herself for a symbolic salvation, sure she was publicly executed, but that was because she was captured in battle, which is a consequence of the fact that she was waging a war on the Imperium. I’ve always had difficulty imagining her as the Christ like figure that the Chant describes as, I also wonder: could the Chant itself have been written post mortem by her followers? Inspired by the insightful remarks that she had when she was alive? Some times even misinterpreted (like that bit about “Magic must serve man, never rule over him” and all the jazz)? If that is the case, what if she never sang at all and was in fact a terrible singer? They’ve already dismissed Garahel sexual prowess in a similar fashion so I guess anything is possible lol.

There is also the possibility of her being a mage - a somniari even - according to some. If the theory of the Elder One being a prisioner of the Black City is correct than her being a mage is even more likely. I mean, how else would have she learned about the threat that the Elder One poses if not by being warned about it by a Fade spirit?

And also.. I can’t shrug off the feeling that the spirit offering her hand to the Inquisitor is Andraste, don’t know why though :P. That and the fact that the Elder One had been scheming to make Thedas as unstable as possible in the long time he awaited to invade.
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#78
CapivaRasgor

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This is definite a nice theory. But it could also be the exact opposite. that andraste was manipulated in destroying the only empire at the moment who would have the knowledge and ability to stop the elder one.


If that is the case, than the original Fade Walk may not be related to usurping the power of the Gods at all but an organized siege to destroy the Elder One. But honestly, I think this scenario is unlikely as Corypheus said that Dumat promised them the power of the gods themselves. That and the fact that Tevinter wasn’t exactly in a shape they could stop the Elder One after the First Blight.
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#79
azarhal

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That has me wondering. Was Andraste really a phrophet or was she just a very charismatic leader? This could be just the years of christian bias that I’m exposed to daily by my family talking but… she waged war on the Imperium, she didn’t go around the place performing miracles, preaching about love&peace and martyring herself for a symbolic salvation, sure she was publicly executed, but that was because she was captured in battle, which is a consequence of the fact that she was waging a war on the Imperium. I’ve always had difficulty imagining her as the Christ like figure that the Chant describes as, I also wonder: could the Chant itself have been written post mortem by her followers? Inspired by the insightful remarks that she had when she was alive? Some times even misinterpreted (like that bit about “Magic must serve man, never rule over him” and all the jazz)? If that is the case, what if she never sang at all and was in fact a terrible singer? They’ve already dismissed Garahel sexual prowess in a similar fashion so I guess anything is possible lol.

 

There was miracles according to the lore: sky raining fire to destroy Tevinter armies, famines, etc. The thing is that the lore claims these are action of the Maker and not Andraste. It is also a world with magic, what exactly are miracles anyway.

 

Some of the Chant is written in first person. It's unclear if these were written by Andraster herself or interpretation of what she said.



#80
Momiji.mii

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My theory about the identity of the Elder One is patched together from pieces of lore hinted about in previous games, as well as in the novels, web series and comics. 

 

A lot of my theories go against the lore as presented in the games, but we’ve already seen that much of what has been presented has been smoke screens and magic mirrors, distorting the truth of what really happened. It’s also worth noting that if something is mentioned in both DAO, DAA, DAII as well as other mediums, then it’s probably been seeded in order to be fully revealed later. 

 

(Putting this behind a cut because my, admittedly convoluted, explanation became ridiculously long as I was putting my thoughts into words.) 

 

Spoiler

 

So, short version: Who is the Elder One? My answer is that he/she is originally Fen’Harel, but by the end of the game he/she will be Fen’Harel possessing the body of an Archdemon. 

 

Edit: And yes, as I look at the length of this post, I realize that I apparently have no life. No regrets though. ;)


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#81
Shin_Seijurou

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So... maybe there's a connection between the findings of the Band of Three (the Enigma of Kirkwall) and the Elder One?

 

"It is well known that the Veil is thin in Kirkwall, small wonder given the suffering in the city. But we've discovered the magisters were deliberately thinning it even further."

 

This might - great emphasis on "might" - be related to the Venatori, we're talking about magisters after all. So, why thin the Veil? Just to summon the Forgotten/Forbidden Ones? Unlikely, as the next quote shows:

 

"The maddening thing is there is still no answer. But the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it is, must be destroyed. I fear one may already be unbound."

 

The fact that the Band did not find the answer, but knew of the presence of a Forgotten One, leads me to believe that summoning them was not the final goal. Enter the Elder One. They were trying to free/call him? Sorry if it has already been proposed/discussed/revealed, but it's just my 5 cents :]


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#82
DKJaigen

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If that is the case, than the original Fade Walk may not be related to usurping the power of the Gods at all but an organized siege to destroy the Elder One. But honestly, I think this scenario is unlikely as Corypheus said that Dumat promised them the power of the gods themselves. That and the fact that Tevinter wasn’t exactly in a shape they could stop the Elder One after the First Blight.

 

But is corypheus certain that it was dumat? The problem with the chantry is that they paint every single old god with the same brush and are not willing to realise that such beings may have different motivations and ambitions. If the old gods and the elder one where enemies it would explain a great deal what happend in thedas.



#83
Jayken

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But, well, there is one thing… if the Elder One is really an entity trapped/previously trapped in the Black City than why did it wait so long to try and take over Thedas? He could have used the First Blight on his favour or seized a chance in the years following it, when the mortal races were still too weakened to resist him. Why wait for a thousand years to enact his invasion? Was the violation of the Golden City not enough to get him out and since then he has been slowly “digging his way out”? Or was him playing a long scheming game for reasons unknown and biding his time?

That's really hard to say or even speculate on. It's possible that his imprisonment is tied to the Old Gods in some way. While the Old Gods slumber and roam the Fade, maybe they also act as jailers to the Black City. I've found it odd that even though we know the Old Gods are still able to move about the fade, despite being trapped underground, we don't really hear about them from mages or demons. Perhaps they are more benevolent than we have been led to believe. As each Old God has been corrupted and the Grey Wardens are subsequently forced to kill them, it may in theory, be weakening the Elder One's Prison. Now that 5th Blight has ended, two Old Gods might not be enough to keep him contained.

 

Of course in order for that to be true we would have to ask the question, why would Dumat lead the Magisters to the Black City? It could be a number of things really. Perhaps Dumat grew tired of being caged and decided to ally with the Elder One, concieably it may not have even been Dumat at all but an agent of the Elder One or even Fen'Harel. At that point though, I'm really beginning to reach beyond any factual speculation.

 

I still believe in the Black Prison theory, it's just hard to nail down a lot of the questions that arise because of it.



#84
jlb524

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That's really hard to say or even speculate on. It's possible that his imprisonment is tied to the Old Gods in some way. While the Old Gods slumber and roam the Fade, maybe they also act as jailers to the Black City. I've found it odd that even though we know the Old Gods are still able to move about the fade, despite being trapped underground, we don't really hear about them from mages or demons. Perhaps they are more benevolent than we have been led to believe. As each Old God has been corrupted and the Grey Wardens are subsequently forced to kill them, it may in theory, be weakening the Elder One's Prison. Now that 5th Blight has ended, two Old Gods might not be enough to keep him contained.

 

Hmm...that's interesting.

 

I agree and don't think the Old Gods are/were 'evil' and not what's threatening us (The Elder One is something else and worse).   The Old Gods may be responsible for imprisoning The Elder One in the first place?

 

I do believe the theory that Dumat = Andraste just like Urthemiel = OGB (with DR).  The question would be, what happened to Dumat's soul when Andraste was killed?  There were no Darkspawn around for it to possess and since it was 'born free from the taint' it probably wouldn't even have seeked out a darkspawn in the first place.  I think the soul simply went back to the Fade and the green figure the Inquisitor encounters is Dumat/Andraste (and they are helping by giving the Inquisitor power to close the rifts).

 

Morrigan never mentions what would happen to Urthemiel's soul if the OGB died...I wonder if she even knows?

 

 

Of course in order for that to be true we would have to ask the question, why would Dumat lead the Magisters to the Black City? It could be a number of things really. Perhaps Dumat grew tired of being caged and decided to ally with the Elder One, concieably it may not have even been Dumat at all but an agent of the Elder One or even Fen'Harel. At that point though, I'm really beginning to reach beyond any factual speculation.

 

I would guess that it wasn't Dumat speaking to them (and it's not Dumat who's granting Corypheus power in Legacy/giving Hawke a gift at Dumat's alter).



#85
azarhal

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Of course in order for that to be true we would have to ask the question, why would Dumat lead the Magisters to the Black City? It could be a number of things really. Perhaps Dumat grew tired of being caged and decided to ally with the Elder One, concieably it may not have even been Dumat at all but an agent of the Elder One or even Fen'Harel. At that point though, I'm really beginning to reach beyond any factual speculation.

 

I still believe in the Black Prison theory, it's just hard to nail down a lot of the questions that arise because of it.

 

What about the person claiming to be Dumat not actually being the primal dragon entombed deep beneath the earth that became the first Archdemon.

 

There is no way to prove that the first Archdemon was really the entity who talked the Magisters into entering the Golden City.



#86
Queen of Evil

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I have just discovered this thread and would like the Elder One to know I have abandoned my worship of the dragon Andraste and fully submit myself (and by consequence all Thedas) to his rule. With this in mind... Who shall I murder-knife first?

#87
myahele

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I think there are 2 "villains" in this. The Elder one and the leader of the venatori. That dragon we see I the end looked partiallity rotted and aged compared to the other dragons. The most obvious choice is that the elder one is actually an old god.

Nobody has ever seen an untainted old god in action, now would be a perfect time. I dont think the green glowy lad will ever be explained. I personally think its an elven god (Falon'Din) making a last ditch effort to stop its enemy.

If that's the case then it would makes sense why we cant use blood magic, due to is corrupting influence

#88
Spicen

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Now we have a pagan thread?
The wonders of BSN NEVER ceases to amaze me
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#89
CapivaRasgor

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Man I want to reply to so many posts...

@DKJaigen

I suppose that there was no failsafe way to know that it was Dumat who comunicated with the Magisters as it was done in the Fade and.. you know.

@Jayken and @jib524

I also never believed that the Old Gods were the malevolent beings the Chantry paints them as. We have very little to go on about them. WoT doesn't say much about them and their Codex entry is written from a Chantry scholar viewpoint and as such it could be biased.

The thought of the Old Gods being the jailers of the Elder One is also an interesting one. If that's the case then the cycle of Blights could be his revenge?

I also wonder about what connection do the Elder One and the Darkspawn/Blight cycle have? Could that be his original plan and after the attempt 5 out of 7 failed in record time he decided to look for another way, thus setting the stage for Inquisition?

There is also another thing: if the Old Gods were his jailers and their lives tied with his seal then after the death/reincarnation of the fifth could have weakened enough for him to influence Thedas. After all, everything on Thedas went to hell after the Fifth Blight, is it really a coincidence?
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#90
myahele

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The Dalish keepers did also mentioned 3 forgotten ones that whispers to them in their dreams. Up until DAO there were 3 remaining old gods since the fall of the Dales centuries ago.

Could this be a connection? They say that elves that worship these forgotten ones are worse than the city elves, for they truly are lost.

#91
Spicen

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The Dalish keepers did also mentioned 3 forgotten ones that whispers to them in their dreams. Up until DAO there were 3 remaining old gods since the fall of the Dales centuries ago.

Could this be a connection? They say that elves that worship these forgotten ones are worse than the city elves, for they truly are lost.

is there a reason perhaps for anyone to admire or worship the entities who embody destruction. Ofcourse those elves are lost.
And regarding the whole "worshipping" thing, we all know from skyrim that evil entities view their followers as tools at best. I cant believe some of these here, you do realise that this is just a game, right? Whats the deal with worshipping pixels lol

#92
CapivaRasgor

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is there a reason perhaps for anyone to admire or worship the entities who embody destruction. Ofcourse those elves are lost.
And regarding the whole "worshipping" thing, we all know from skyrim that evil entities view their followers as tools at best. I cant believe some of these here, you do realise that this is just a game, right? Whats the deal with worshipping pixels lol


The same deal of you believing they actually worship the Elder One...
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#93
Spicen

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By the way, i saw the trailer. It cud more or less confirm the presence of the make r, especially as a benevolent being.If maker was a fabrication, the dragon wud not hav even bothered. It seems it has a grudge against the maker. I think all things going well, its going to be a good game. I hope the maker returns to help his creation in their plight. its terribly irresponsible to leave his creation alone, hes such a crybaby lol.

#94
Spicen

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The same deal of you believing they actually worship the Elder One...

lol was just trying to find the funny side of it. Guess you elder one supporters are like qunari lol
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#95
Lady Mortho

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DA religion is so much more liberal with women, Andraste= fem dominatrix who is glorious.



#96
Spicen

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DA religion is so much more liberal with women, Andraste= fem dominatrix who is glorious.

no more liberal than the real world church.... except here its men who are denied the maker ....or just a chance to sit on a chair wearing clithes which cost 19 sovereigns each.

#97
Icy Magebane

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DA religion is so much more liberal with women, Andraste= fem dominatrix who is glorious.

That's a bit of a stretch...


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#98
jlb524

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Andraste likes to tie the Maker up and whip him?


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#99
Mistic

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Andraste likes to tie the Maker up and whip him?

 

That would explain a lot.


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#100
CapivaRasgor

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That would explain a lot.


Like why the Maker left. He couldn't stand her glory.