351 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

I like my Hawke.  I would never want to harm him, or any returning characters.  It helps that I've already killed the characters I did want dead.

[Sidney]

Wouldn't Hawke supposedly being behind the mage rebellion be enough reason to kill him/her? Especially for a devout Inquisitor.

 

As for whether or not Bioware will let us kill Hawke. I hope so, it would provide some much appreciated DA2 catharsis, and having Hawke be untouchable would stink too much of DA2's rail-roading and Tallis.  

 

Hawke wasn't behind it and since Cassandra knows the truth and has for years there isn't much reason there.

 

Tallis OTOH is inexcusable she is still alive and I'd be more than happy to gut her like a fish in DAI if I had the chance.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I am not use to seeing you post in a positive light. Are you actually enjoying what you are seeing lately from DAI?

I'm just really good at headcanon.

 

I haven't seen much negative from Inquisition of late.  The positive stuff I would like to see they're not talking about.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hawke wasn't behind it and since Cassandra knows the truth and has for years there isn't much reason there.

Cassandra "knows" what Varric told her.

[The Hierophant]

A couple things:

By "did nothing about it", I assume this means that Hawke didn't simply murder a Chantry sister and her Templar guard where they stood, assuming that Hawke actually accepted the task of escorting the saarebas. After that, there was no way for anyone to expect that a sister of the Chantry would actually go so far as to murder the son of the Viscount, and besides, Hawke is not the law enforcement of Kirkwall. He/she is under no obligation to follow up on all these crazy leads. Heck the only reason you rescue the Viscount's son in the first place was for money, not for kindness. That the city is basically filled with ineffectual guards, an even more ineffectual Viscount, a growing swath of religious fanatics and blood mages is a much bigger problem. That place was a doomed powder keg from the start.

A diplomatic Hawke has a potential stake in Kirkwall's stability as they've just finished hightailing it from Lothering, and Petrice's plans to enflame a conflict with the Qunari military could present a danger to the safety of their family who's now short of one member.

Kirkwall being a dump is no excuse for Hawke lacking the ability to notify Elthina about Petrice at the end of Shepherding Wolves. Them succeeding is not an issue but their apathy, and lack of initiative in the face of a threat who tried to have them killed is. I'm surprised an aggressive Hawke lacked the option to fight Varnell and Petrice then use the house's tunnels to dump their bodies on the WC.

Just what exactly would Hawke even have to say about the idol? The only time Hawke ever saw the thing in its original form, it was just for a brief moment before Bartrand ran off with it and left everyone to die in the Deep Roads, and he didn't come back for years.

After the reunion with Bartrand in Act2 Hawke could've brought up the matter (which is a magic based one) to Cullen a Templar captain, along with the description of the buyer Bertrand gave them. Cullen potentially reciting the incident to Meredith could've been priceless.

Unless people have forgotten, the only reason Hawke and possibly the sibling are even diving into the lousy darkspawn tunnels again is because Corypheus himself was sending Carta dwarves to kill them and get their blood. Unless one wishes to fault the characters for lack of clairvoyance, there's no reason they should have expected to encounter an ancient darkspawn that can mimic the call of the Old Gods. As for Corypheus' "freedom", I guess it's also Hawke's fault for not hearing the creepy music that played during the scene. We like to forget that specific camera angles seen in cut scenes are not actually what the protagonist sees.

Hawke released Corypheus in order to defeat them. Them being ignorant of their failure doesn't absolve them of unwittingly unleashing him on Thedas.

[Enigmatick]

I want to see whether my admittedly radical headcanon will survive Hawke's reappearance.

I won't fault BioWare if it doesn't (though it will quite thoroughly undermine the whole concept of the unreliable narrator from DA2), but for some reason I think it will.

Share your headcanon with the class, Sylvius.

 

Also I'm using you as a basis for a wizard companion in the Pillars of Eternity beta, hope you don't mind.

[Marshal Moriarty]

People are far too hard on Hawke - there is nothing he/she could have done to prevent most of the events of DA2. At least in Acts 1+2, - Act 3 is a litlle different, as I'll get to later. Basically its still the case in Act 3 that Hawke has very limited room to influence events, but the rushed nature of the final Act makes any in depth analysis rather pointless - it simply is too rushed and mishandled to give a fair appraisal of any of the character's actions during that Act.

 

But for most of the game, the writing and storytelling is very good, because it doesn't allow Hawke any quick and easy fixes. You have several opportunities to tell the people in office about Petrice (you can tell the Grand Cleric and the Viscount). But neither can do anything about it, unless she acts openly. Without evidence, she will just deny it, and if she is removed from her post during this time, she will simply conduct her affairs in secret. If she is arrested or killed without any evidence, it will cause a riot amongst her followers. To deal with her, Hawke and the Arishok had to wait for her to move openly - *then* get rid of her. Hawke and the Grand cleric planned to do it with an arrest, the Arishok did it with an execution. Either way, they had been shown to have just cause to deal with her, which they didn't have before she moved against Sheamus.

 

Hawke is just one person. Sure a person with great personal skill and many contacts, but the problems of Kirkwall are political and ideological. They cannot be solved by simply swinging a sword or shouting at people until they give in (the standard way that Shepard resolved disputes in Mass Effect, and its utterly ridiculous each and every time it happens). If it was that easy to resolve these kinds of disputes, by having charismatic heroes shout at people to stop fighting because they just should, then why isn't Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson in Gaza right now, telling the Israelis and Palestinians to stop fighting? Because that's an idiotic suggestion and it wouldn't work (hell even the Pope, who has been a sensation by actually promoting peace and tolerance, and who commands more moral authority than any world leader right now, couldn't do anything!) These kinds of deep seated problem just rumble away, and cannot be solved by one hero bellowing cheesy speeches at them.

 

There was no way for Hawke to know that the idol was involved. Bartrand was the only one who could have told them, and he was too far gone by that time. Add in that there is genuine fault on both sides of the Mage/Templar conflict, the fact that the title of Champion confers no rights or mandate to make decisions about the governance of Kirkwall, or the status of the Circle and Templars, and it becomes harder and harder to see what Hawke could have done differently. There is clearly a case for Hawke's involvement (i,e the situation is deterioating rapidly, with no hope of a peaceful resolution, and the people are actively calling on Hawke to intervene, giving some kind of mandate for such action). But again, what could Hawke do?: With no authority to remove either Meredith or Orsino, and with no outside recourse (Leliana makes it clear that the only intervention that the wider Chantry will take is to march on Kirkwall if the stuation isn't resolved), the situation is extremely delicate.

 

Of course, such discussions are made more difficult by the fact (I consider it a fact anyway) that Act 3 is by far the shortest, weakest, most rushed and generally poorly laid out and written of the game. Its a shame because the tone and atmosphere of the 3rd Act is pretty good, as Meredith and the Templars start to take a strangehold, and crack down on Kirkwall. The opening scene with Orsino;s rally, the heavy Templar presence in the Keep, the Seneschal's worries, Aveline being hounded by the Templars to give up more and more authority etc). But the quests are so poor, railroading you along in increasingly absurd ways (the Mage/Templar alliance attacking Hawke, even if Hawke supports removing Meredith is a prime example), After the first couple of encounters, its obvious what is going on - you should at least have been able to return to Orsino at this point and discuss how to proceed, instead of just continuing to provoke them.  

 

The final Act is a just a rushed mess, and its unfair on any of the characters to use their actions in that Act against them (as basically everyone seems to lose somewhere in the region of 50-60 points from their IQ, make outrageous decisions that are almost completely unsupported by the narrative, and even the basic foundation for many of the quests is so flawed that you wouldn't even attempt them, if the game wasn't forcing you). Its unfortunate that the state of this final Act causes people to overlook the superior storytelling from the rest of the game. Hawke isn't responsible for what happens in Kirkwall, he/she is simply proof that no matter how talented the individual, there are forces (political, religious, racial etc etc) that are too powerful to prevent. You might as well try to hold back the tide - the best you can do is simply to do what you can, save who you can, and make the choices that you think are right.

 

And that for me makes DA2 one of the best Bioware main stories. Because its more down to earth, relatable etc, and even though the stakes are lower (i.e the world isn't going to be destroyed or anything), but they seem to mean more because its a more intimate setting, with more connection on Hawke's part with the city and its people to that of other Bioware games. The important thing isn't whether Hawke was able to change events, its what Hawke - your Hawke - was like, and how he/she set an example, whether good or bad.

[Joseph Warrick]

Now that Hawke is back, the obvious question is...

 

...did she teach the Inquisitor how to catwalk?

[Dabrikishaw]

I've been wondering this myself.

[NewBlue]

I don't get it... why does everyone want to (basically) kill the video game version of themselves

[dekarserverbot]

about the OP, if given the chance i will kill him with EVERY inquisitor... and Merill is dead too. It's for natural selection, useless beings and spoiled brats should not be allowed to reproduce

 

Would the Inquisitor have a reason to kill Hawke? They've likely never met....

inquisitor is a  survivor from Kirkwall, (s)he has the same reasons to kill him than any warden (instead of HN and CE) has to kill Howe

[90s Luke]

inquisitor is a  survivor from Kirkwall, (s)he has the same reasons to kill him than any warden (instead of HN and CE) has to kill Howe

 

The Inquisitor isn't a survivor from Kirkwall....

[Teddie Sage]

Ugh... This thread again. I'll never kill my Warden or my Hawke. I cherish them both.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I love my Hawke. Now we just confirmation of Tallis' return and my day will be made!

[KaiserShep]

A diplomatic Hawke has a potential stake in Kirkwall's stability as they've just finished hightailing it from Lothering, and Petrice's plans to enflame a conflict with the Qunari military could present a danger to the safety of their family who's now short of one member.

Kirkwall being a dump is no excuse for Hawke lacking the ability to notify Elthina about Petrice at the end of Shepherding Wolves. Them succeeding is not an issue but their apathy, and lack of initiative in the face of a threat who tried to have them killed is. I'm surprised an aggressive Hawke lacked the option to fight Varnell and Petrice then use the house's tunnels to dump their bodies on the WC.

 

As I said, this basically boils down to Hawke not simply killing Petrice and Varnell right from the start, because every other option would have been pointless anyway. Reporting anyone, let alone a prominent figure, to the authorities without a shred of evidence to support these claims is foolish and a waste of time. Despite what some may think, Petrice's choices beyond that point are not Hawke's responsibility. It's not Hawke's fault that Saemus is murdered, because there's no way this could have been predicted.

 

 

After the reunion with Bartrand in Act2 Hawke could've brought up the matter (which is a magic based one) to Cullen a Templar captain, along with the description of the buyer Bertrand gave them. Cullen potentially reciting the incident to Meredith could've been priceless.

Hawke released Corypheus in order to defeat them. Them being ignorant of their failure doesn't absolve them of unwittingly unleashing him on Thedas.

 

I don't recall Bartrand saying anything particularly meaningful about who the buyer was, and in my playthrough, Anders was already given the boot from the group, so there was no one to snap him out of his idol-addled state and I let Varric put him out of his misery. Again, there's no evidence to link Meredith either, and the Templars are not about to start investigating the Knight-Commander without something more compelling than some vague description.

 

Actually, being both unaware of the intricacies of ancient evils and being under constant threat of death by taint-addled thralls does absolve Hawke. Really, what should Hawke have done in this situation?

 

about the OP, if given the chance i will kill him with EVERY inquisitor... and Merill is dead too. It's for natural selection, useless beings and spoiled brats should not be allowed to reproduce

 

inquisitor is a  survivor from Kirkwall, (s)he has the same reasons to kill him than any warden (instead of HN and CE) has to kill Howe

 

Where did you get that the Inquisitor was a survivor from Kirkwall, and how is Hawke in any way shape or form comparable to Howe?

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I'm simply a sucker for both Felicia Day and lethal lady assassins, but her story is another facet I liked. I want to know if she'd side with or against the Qunari once the events of DAI start.

[ebevan91]

If Hawke is back, then is Bethany/Carver?

I doubt it, because one or both could be dead. But would be nice for Hawke to at least mention them.

[Altima Darkspells]

I admit, it may be entertaining if Sera tries to make a Hawke who romanced Isabella uncomfortable.

"Hey, Sera."
"Yes, Hawke?"
"Here's my family crest."
"So...?"
"Turn your head a little to the side."
"Okay, but I don't know ARGH CANNOT UNSEE."

[Killdren88]

If Hawke is back, then is Bethany/Carver?

I doubt it, because one or both could be dead. But would be nice for Hawke to at least mention them.

 

If Bethany is with Hawke, I will do what I couldn't while playing DA2 because lets be honest...that's weird and creepy

 

[The Hierophant]

As I said, this basically boils down to Hawke not simply killing Petrice and Varnell right from the start, because every other option would have been pointless anyway. Reporting anyone, let alone a prominent figure, to the authorities without a shred of evidence to support these claims is foolish and a waste of time. Despite what some may think, Petrice's choices beyond that point are not Hawke's responsibility. It's not Hawke's fault that Saemus is murdered, because there's no way this could have been predicted.

Petrice wasn't a prominent chantry figure until she was promoted after act 1. Aside from killing Petrice to curb her plot and influence among the Chantry faithful, the issue is that Hawke made no attempt whatsoever to undermine her scheme despite Petrice clearly explaining her plan to instigate conflict between Kirkwall against the Qunari. Petrice having the ability to murk a squad of Qunari should've set off alarm bells.
 

I don't recall Bartrand saying anything particularly meaningful about who the buyer was, and in my playthrough, Anders was already given the boot from the group, so there was no one to snap him out of his idol-addled state and I let Varric put him out of his misery. Again, there's no evidence to link Meredith either, and the Templars are not about to start investigating the Knight-Commander without something more compelling than some vague description.

I said nothing about Cullen investigating Meredith personally as Kirkwall should have a crap ton of blonde women. My point is that Cullen learning and or investigating the idol would probably have to run that info by Meredith due to the chain of command, and potentially unintentionally clue his boss onto the nature of her recent purchase. Considering what the idol did to Bartrand it makes no sense for Hawke to ignore the danger it presents, and not alert the Viscount or Cullen who he's both on speaking terms with.
 

Actually, being both unaware of the intricacies of ancient evils and being under constant threat of death by taint-addled thralls does absolve Hawke. Really, what should Hawke have done in this situation?

Corypheus's escape is still on Hawke's head since he failed to kill Cory especially after he used the Key to unseal him.

But to Hawke's credit the plot demanded them to be incompetent through the lack of initiative, alzheimers, and or common sense in order to move the conflict towards it's intended climax. Cory's and Tallis' situations were like beating a dead horse with a stick.
 
Though i doubt Hawke's competency will matter much in DAI since they're not the pc.

[dekarserverbot]

 
Though i doubt Hawke's competency will matter much in DAI since they're not the pc.

 

He represented no compentency that mattered IN ITS OWN GAME.

[HTTP 404]

If by 'instigated' you mean 'unfortunately happened to be in the area when it occurred and got blamed for it', probably a lot.

 

If by 'instigated' you mean 'actually had a major hand in causing', probably about as many as s/he did in DA2. That is, none.

Also people who want to kill Hawke make me sad.

 

Hawke is fine, just not liked by association for those that 'hate' da2.  Also I love your name.  Happiness is good.  Your name is also a part of my e-mail address.