156 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

If your main interest were making money, you'd do better to leave games and get into regular software development. People who make games are passionate about games... but they still like to do stuff like pay their bills.

Missed these earlier...

Going way OT, but how come you bought TW2 if 1 bored you? Obviously the right decision, but how'd you make it?

I play lots of games, so I rarely demand or expect any specific game blow me away. If I hear good things about a game, I'm willing to give it a try.

The original Witcher was not a bad game. It simply still felt uneven to me. The previews I saw for Witcher 2 suggested that it was better, and I found it to be so in a large number of ways.

I know it's a bit off topic, but out of curiosity in regards to the gaming industry, why?

If you're going to make me deal with naked, brutally murdered women five times in a row, you have to have a better pay-off than 'this dude is crazy.' It stopped being a noire story and just became a generic slasher/horror game.

[Sanunes]

 

This is deliberate tactic.

Bioware got only complaints about ME 3 by the people who finished the game. So by reducing the number of people who finish the game, they are reducing the number of complaints.

 

...just kidding!

 

In all honesty, I do wonder why Bioware makes such a huuuuuuge game, and move the release date for it two times (and I'd guess this reflects on the budget side as well). Do they expect the enormous size reflect in sales?

But, then again, I don't complain, because I certainly enjoy getting more game for my money. So I can wait for it. And I will definately complete it.

 

 

I understand where people keep thinking BioWare has delayed the game twice, but in reality the first delay happened before they even announced the release date. There will always be the 'we were originally thinking Fall 2013, but decided to go Fall 2014" debate as a delay, but for what I understand the industry won't consider it a delay because it was never officially announced to be released in Fall 2013.

 

I am one of the people who never finished Witcher 2. Everybody said that I absolutely must like it, because it's one of the best modern RPGs. So I bought it on sale, and I just disliked the character, hated the interface, hated the demands on the hardware, hated the lack of party, the action orientation, the everything that was not like DAO.

 

After the game crashed 3 times in the cutscene after the defeat of the Hydra, I turned to something else. Maybe I'll pick it up again. Maybe I'll finish Divinity: Original Sin first.Which is also on my maybe list.

 

I understand where you are coming from, when I was playing The Witcher 2 I had a really hard time playing for I never felt any attachment to the character and I disliked him a lot.

[schall_und_rauch]

Not everything they do is based around sales. I think to do what they do at all they have to care a lot about what they're creating.

 

My personal belief: I think that the people who are actually producing the game: Writing the story, designing the combat system, creating the levels, doing the artwork, keeping it all together -- for them, it's absolutely about creating. About doing something they love to do and getting positive feedback from the fans.

 

However, in the end, somebody has to decide "yes, we will pay for all this open world and exploring and 8 different romances and naming your items and 150 hours of gameplay". And those people need to be convinced that it will pay off by the sales. Call them "suits", call them "EA", whatever. At the end of the day, somebody has to draw the bottom line on the money, and they will make the decisions of how big the game is going to be. And everybody who's in the business knows that this is the way it is.

 

(I'd like to include at this point the business dollar kitty that is frequently used on David Gaider's blog, or the gaming developer blog that he links to, but I can't find it quickly)

 

The trick is to make a great game despite of this. For example, by putting in the extra hours so everybody can #ridethebull. Oh, and by the way, big thanks and kudos to the team for doing all of this!

[schall_und_rauch]

 

I understand where you are coming from, when I was playing The Witcher 2 I had a really hard time playing for I never felt any attachment to the character and I disliked him a lot.

 

My biggest issue with Witcher 2 was not so much the character, but the gameplay and UI issues. The UI was just horrible. Giving spells obscure names that I need to memorize just for the hell of it, rather than calling them "summon, fire, paralyze, heal, etc" is just a way of telling me you hate me.

[Lady Shayna]

 

I might have thought that Bioware was more of a niche developer (albiet a bigger niche developer) and that DA in particular doesn't have a real broad appeal because it doesn't have  a TPS (Mass Effect) or FPS (Skyrim, FNV) appeal so they were targeting their "core" base that wants an expansive tale but if the completion stats are what they are then either the BSN is really not representative of their core (clearly it isn't of any mass market) but of the coriest , hardcore of the non-represenative core.

 

 

Possibly.  For myself, it took me a couple of months to really complete DA:O, or instance.  With my first character, I go to the choice about the DArk Ritual, and accidentally spoiled myself on what the choices entailed.  I wanted to chose to do the ritual, but I couldn't go through with it, since my character was just adamantly opposed to it.  I then went back and played every other origin and continued those characters to Denerim.  Then, finally deleted that original version of my human noble character and created a new one who would be willing to choose the ending I wanted to see.  

 

Considering how long it took me to get there, I may well have been counted as a 'never completed'.

 

I've done similar things before in other games.  For instance, I played through Baldur's Gate 5 or 6 times before actually finishing the end boss.  Similar thing with BG 2.  Yet I was an active and vocal fan the whole time.  

 

Then again, I like to wander around a lot, but am not really a 'completionist'.  Achievements listings, for instance, have no value to me. *shrugs*  Different strokes, yes?  

[Maliken]

My biggest issue with Witcher 2 was not so much the character, but the gameplay and UI issues. The UI was just horrible. Giving spells obscure names that I need to memorize just for the hell of it, rather than calling them "summon, fire, paralyze, heal, etc" is just a way of telling me you hate me.

 

UI was hit and miss, the most cumbersome was the inventory but otherwise the journal and character talents and traits/abilities were done okay.  And as for spells, there are only 5 to choose from.

[AlanC9]

Possibly.  For myself, it took me a couple of months to really complete DA:O, or instance.  With my first character, I go to the choice about the DArk Ritual, and accidentally spoiled myself on what the choices entailed.  I wanted to chose to do the ritual, but I couldn't go through with it, since my character was just adamantly opposed to it.  I then went back and played every other origin and continued those characters to Denerim.  Then, finally deleted that original version of my human noble character and created a new one who would be willing to choose the ending I wanted to see.

Something I don't follow about this. Why not just finish the first playthrough doing what's right for that character, instead of deleting that character? The second HN was a new character anyway, and nobody says you can't have two HNs.

As for whether you counted as completing it, I suppose you do now. Bio never stops tracking this stuff. They noticed a spike in ME2 completions immediately prior to ME3's release, for instance.

[Lady Shayna]

Something I don't follow about this. Why not just finish the first playthrough doing what's right for that character, instead of deleting that character? The second HN was a new character anyway, and nobody says you can't have two HNs.
 

 

Because *I* didn't want to play through that ending, regardless of what my character wanted to choose. Wasn't going to watch Alistair die.  So, it left me in a catch 22 type of situation.

 

Edit: Also, I'm having trouble finding/accessing my old account, so I've lost all of my DLCs and play history.  Bleah.

[Little Princess Peach]

you play the game to enjoy it not to see whom can complete the most dungeons last  time I checked there was no race going on .

[AlanC9]

However, in the end, somebody has to decide "yes, we will pay for all this open world and exploring and 8 different romances and naming your items and 150 hours of gameplay". And those people need to be convinced that it will pay off by the sales. Call them "suits", call them "EA", whatever. At the end of the day, somebody has to draw the bottom line on the money, and they will make the decisions of how big the game is going to be. And everybody who's in the business knows that this is the way it is.
 

This is what's always puzzled me about DAI, actually. Bio seems to be throwing a lot of money into almost everything. My understanding was that EA wanted to get away from this swing-for-the-fences development strategy.

[AlanC9]

Because *I* didn't want to play through that ending, regardless of what my character wanted to choose. Wasn't going to watch Alistair die.  So, it left me in a catch 22 type of situation.
 

Well, you didn't have to watch Alistair die. There's always the US.

So there are some plots you just won't do, eh? I'm like that too, but only with plots that require the PC to be evil. Star Wars games excepted; for some reason I can play DS just fine.

[CronoDragoon]

Well, you didn't have to watch Alistair die. There's always the US.

So there are some plots you just won't do, eh? I'm like that too, but only with plots that require the PC to be evil. Star Wars games excepted; for some reason I can play DS just fine.

 

He won't let you if you're in a romance, though, which is probably the case here.

 

Edit: Also, which games did you have in mind for making the PC be evil?

[Lady Shayna]

He won't let you if you're in a romance, though, which is probably the case here.

 

Yup.

[TheGusWho]

Isn't there the option to leave him behind in the final battle, though? I thought if you left him with the rest of your companions to guard the gate and you opted out of the Dark Ritual, you could still sacrifice yourself even if you were in a relationship with him.

[CronoDragoon]

Yup.

 

That happened to my sister, and after he dumped her for being an elf! Then in Dragon Age 2 Fenris turned on her when she sided with the mages.

 

Poor girl couldn't catch a break.

[Lady Shayna]

Isn't there the option to leave him behind in the final battle, though? I thought if you left him with the rest of your companions to guard the gate and you opted out of the Dark Ritual, you could still sacrifice yourself even if you were in a relationship with him.

 

I never played through it, but my understanding was that you could leave him in Denerim, hog tied and with a dozen guards around him to keep him from leaving on pain of death, and he would still pop up to sacrifice in your stead.  

[Sidney]

I am one of the people who never finished Witcher 2. Everybody said that I absolutely must like it, because it's one of the best modern RPGs. So I bought it on sale, and I just disliked the character, hated the interface, hated the demands on the hardware, hated the lack of party, the action orientation, the everything that was not like DAO.

 

After the game crashed 3 times in the cutscene after the defeat of the Hydra, I turned to something else. Maybe I'll pick it up again. Maybe I'll finish Divinity: Original Sin first.Which is also on my maybe list.

 

 

It was the combat that killed it for me, the sense that it was more Assasin's Creed or Arkham where "I" was doing the work no Geralt.

 

I always found it odd that after the lashing DA2 got for "no race selection" and the "awesome button" TW2 got a mass of love for a no customization other than the hair main character and combat that was all action all the time.

[Elite Midget]

Well, only like 1% actually finish everything Skyrim has yet that game is pretty rad and well received. So it really depends.

 

Do they not complete the content due to it being so vast or because they lose interest or were never hooked? Skyrim has the whole "vast" going for it, hopefully that's the reason for DA:I as well since the game does look awesome so far.

[TheGusWho]

THAT BOY. Although now I'm curious to know what happens if you romanced Alistair but recruited Loghain and declined the dark ritual - would Alistair still show up in that instance? I guess this just means I'll have to play through DAO again. Darn.

[Sidney]

Possibly.  For myself, it took me a couple of months to really complete DA:O, or instance.  With my first character, I go to the choice about the DArk Ritual, and accidentally spoiled myself on what the choices entailed.  I wanted to chose to do the ritual, but I couldn't go through with it, since my character was just adamantly opposed to it.  I then went back and played every other origin and continued those characters to Denerim.  Then, finally deleted that original version of my human noble character and created a new one who would be willing to choose the ending I wanted to see.  

 

Considering how long it took me to get there, I may well have been counted as a 'never completed'.

 

I've done similar things before in other games.  For instance, I played through Baldur's Gate 5 or 6 times before actually finishing the end boss.  Similar thing with BG 2.  Yet I was an active and vocal fan the whole time.  

 

Then again, I like to wander around a lot, but am not really a 'completionist'.  Achievements listings, for instance, have no value to me. *shrugs*  Different strokes, yes?  

 

 

I'm not always a big completionist working into every nook and cranny but the main storyline I will always finish. That is really why I play the Bioware games and why Skyrim seems so wildly unsatisfying to me.  The thing is your "incomplete" is still get a ton of value out of the game just not in a way I thought people would play.

 

I would think what you describe isn't complete but I'd also think that sort of heavy replay and incompleteness is also not common. IIRC I think they had stats on replay and most people aren't doing that either so you and the replay and me and being complete still marks us as heavy outliers in gaming even with the Bioware games. That fact will always surprise me and I guess the question on lack of completion for that large segement of game audience that isn't trying different things like you are is why? Is it just time? Do they not like the story. I know some people I recommended ME to stopped because there was to much talking for a game but again that is a tiny anecdotal group.

[Sidney]

Well, only like 1% actually finish everything Skyrim has yet that game is pretty rad and well received. So it really depends.

 

Do they not complete the content due to it being so vast or because they lose interest or were never hooked? Skyrim has the whole "vast" going for it, hopefully that's the reason for DA:I as well since the game does look awesome so far.

 

 

...but that is a real sandbox. Skyrim is a single player WoW basically where the grind is the purpose so I can see people not playing "the story". I'd be curious to compare Skyrim with Borderlands 2 because both are big open shoot n' loot games (shoot,stab, magicalize whatever) but Borderlands seemed to be more consistent about putting the plot in front of you whereas Skyrim didn't seem to make any effort to "push" you in that way.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Good. 

The less completion there is - the more elitist I can feel about myself   

There is nothing like hitting the gym, come home and take a shower, go naked over to the PC to check the completion stats for a game you completed thrice on hardest difficulty at less than 10% - then soap yourself infront of the mirror and revel in your awesomeness with this soundtrack in the background: 

https://www.youtube....h?v=4yG0QE9ce3U

[Lady Shayna]

Hard to say.  Could be a lot of things.  I don't finish most JRPGs I try, for instance, because I usually hit a point where I have to grind, and I find that boring.  Thus, every time I think of picking it back up I'll think, "But I have to spend all evening grinding.  I'll do something else instead", until I eventually stop thinking about continuing it.  Yet, I've still played a couple of dozen of them.

 

Come to think of it, that's kind of weird.  Heh. Honestly, my husband buys them for himself, and I play them afterwards, so I suppose if it were just me, I wouldn't have bought them at all. 

 

Other games I'll hit a big boss battle and get frustrated enough from it that I "take a break", and after a couple of weeks, forget enough about the story that my urge to continue playing is well below my desire to avoid frustration.  Most of my BG games were like this, but I still eagerly bought BG 2 and all expansions because I liked the rest of the game well enough.  Divinity: Original Sin is dangerously close to reaching this point at the moment.

 

Other games I'm just not enjoying that much, so the first set back or irritating quest choice will put me off the game altogether: DA2, Fable, etc. 

 

On the other hand, I enjoyed the story in ME1 well enough that I forced myself to finish, but it was so far outside my wheelhouse in play style that I never even took a second look at the rest of the series, so finishing a game is not a guarantee that I like it enough to buy another, either.

[DrDeeft]

Good. 

The less completion there is - the more elitist I can feel about myself   

There is nothing like hitting the gym, come home and take a shower, go naked over to the PC to check the completion stats for a game you completed thrice on hardest difficulty at less than 10% - then soap yourself infront of the mirror and revel in your awesomeness with this soundtrack in the background: 

https://www.youtube....h?v=4yG0QE9ce3U

 

Man, I thought I was the only guy who did this!

[LPPrince]

I can't speak for anyone but myself;I complete all games I play that I find somewhat enjoyable. Very few have been left unfinished.