since they do not talk having the warden helping in the mp section would be fun
That might be an idea, but I'd fear that would take away the potential for if say, people like myself romanced Morrigan. Had she not been in this at all, I wouldn't have an issue with not seeing him. And I'm sure those who romanced Leliana, who is also appearing in this game, might feel a tad slighted if they don't make an appearance at all, too.
Vengeance!
BATMAN!!! Sorry... I know I am late to that party.
BATMAN!!! Sorry... I know I am late to that party.
Just a little. 
Personally, I think the choice to go with a more railroaded and concrete personality for Hawke was the right decision for the story being told in DA2.
Compared to DAO, DA2 was a much more intimate and personal story, and one that wouldn't have worked nearly as well if more player agency was afforded to the character.
Think about it. Sure, Hawke sould have theoretically fled from anywhere in ferelden, but the story pretty much required certain key ingredients to be told. he wasn't magically railroaded in to an ancient order and then given the reins, he was a rising star in a single city with a rigidly defined culture.
DA2's story literally dould not have been told if Hawke was, say, a dalish elf or an orzimmar dwarf. The story hinges completely around hawke believably rising to power through circumstances that are logical for his backstory. Being a commoner from Lothering, having a mage sister, not being dalish, and a lot of other things are integral to the belivability of that story. It played a lot more naturally than any of the transitions for the opening choices in origins to the player being inducted in to the grey wardens.
DA2 had several problems, most famously the excessive map re-use and lack of follower gearing options, that stunted its breadth in a gameplay sense, but in a narrative sense it was a very specific story about one very specific small event with very natural cause and effect to that end.
If anything, compared to DA2's story, The overall plot of DAO was far less natural and belivable. You will always be a grey warden, and you will always be immediately thrust in to a position of command over an organization you know nothing about, with no oversight, despite it being an ancient worldwide society charged with fighting the only known global level threat in the entire world.
The thing is, in DAO you had to make that kind of storytelling conceit in order to facilitate the kind of player agency it provided. Your background as a player choice was sensible because, in the larger scheme of things, it didn't matter at all to the story. It was literally just a series of starter quests before the actual plot started.
Hawke's story in DA2 however is integral to the plot from start to finish. He doesn't do a starter bit and then immediately become someone important and have a story from there. For the first act to work at all he HAS to be a dirt poor refugee, with kirkwall ancestry, and a mage for a sister. Kirkwall ancestry prevents him from having elven heritage. Having a mage sister prevents him from beign a dwarf.
There's so much in the game that revolves around certain particulars of Hawke that the player can't choose that they literally could not have told the story of kirkwall without removing the choices they did. That would be a shame, because for all its troubles, what DA2 did exceptionally well was tell an excellent stroy not only about the protagonist, but about those who accompanied him.
That's the difference between the two that people don't get I think.
DAO was a game about the player, guest starring the companions. DA2 was a game as much about the companions (and the city itself) as it was about the player. When you put that much of a premium on the complexities of how companions interact with the player, you have to place limits for those characters to be interesting.
DAI is headin back to the "primarily about the player being the chosen one and how he saves the world" trope, and it looks like a fantastic game. Hawke absolutely deserves a role, if anything because he's an actual character, wheras the player's blank slate Warden Commander from DOA is simply propped up by headcanon with very little actual substance as a character that would be interesting to interact with as an NPC. DAO is not a story about the Warden Commander. It's a story about Ferelden. Ferelden is the main character, not you.
It would be a bit like playing half life 3 and having Gordon Freeman as an NPC. There would be little point. Gordon Freeman, like the Warden Commander isn't a person as much as he his a series of events. He's not going to have interesting conversations with you because he was specifically designed not to have a personality. His Story arc is on solely defined by circumstance and railroading with very few choices that define him, rather than the world, as a character. Hawke is a different matter. Hawke's entire story is about a much more established an interesting character, and the player has influence on a personality and more important a set of core values that define Hawke rather than the country and world in which he lives.
This is why Hawke is a much more natural choice for heavy NPC inclusion. He's easier to define and write based on previous player choices wheras the Warden Commander wouldn't last past a few paragraphs of dialogue because everything he is is already covered in common public knowledge. He has very little substance as a person outside of being the Hero of Ferelden wheras Hawke has a clearly defined personality as Hawke ouside of his legend as the Champion of Kirkwall. In fact, that was the entire point of DA2, to determine who Hawke was, not what the result of his actions was.
I'd love to see my Warden Commander make a cameo, but I don't think he's capable of carrying as a full fledged NPC. He's just not a very interesting person when tracked my metrics one could judge from simply playing the game rather than supporting decisions with an imagined headcanon, and you can't write branching dialogue and a belivable character around the infinite scope of headcanon.
*snip*
As David Gaider said way back, your old hero isn't yours anymore. All they would really need to take into account is your race/romance and perhaps another couple key choices as to determine if you were good or not. i.e did you murder all of the dalish for the werewolves, or bring about peace, etc.
But after that, what they choose to do with your old hero, that's up to their story. It's been 10 years, and no doubt the Warden has grown up and essentially, become their own person. So I personally would like to see how Bioware will utilize that, and how they'll take advantage of our choices, via the Keep.
As David Gaider said way back, your old hero isn't yours anymore. All they would really need to take into account is your race/romance and perhaps another couple key choices as to determine if you were good or not. i.e did you murder all of the dalish for the werewolves, or bring about peace, etc.
But after that, what they choose to do with your old hero, that's up to their story. It's been 10 years, and no doubt the Warden has grown up and essentially, become their own person. So I
personally would like to see how Bioware will utilize that, and how they'll take advantage of our choices, via the Keep.
For me it is actually easy for my wardens personality (picture) he is always the good guy in overall. that kind of personality is easy but what I have come to understand is that usually the small things is difficult to control. take this as an example for my warden:
He doesn't tolerate "blood magic" in any sense no one deserves mercy for that.
That kind of things is difficult but what is required is a Action situation you are in, that way you don't have to go into the details of the character.
As David Gaider said way back, your old hero isn't yours anymore. All they would really need to take into account is your race/romance and perhaps another couple key choices as to determine if you were good or not. i.e did you murder all of the dalish for the werewolves, or bring about peace, etc.
But after that, what they choose to do with your old hero, that's up to their story. It's been 10 years, and no doubt the Warden has grown up and essentially, become their own person. So I personally would like to see how Bioware will utilize that, and how they'll take advantage of our choices, via the Keep.
I don't think that's what was meant here, though. I think that in context Gaider was saying that this was an entirely different Warden.
I don't think that's what was meant here, though. I think that in context Gaider was saying that this was an entirely different Warden.
No, not in the context of the recent tweet, sure. It was said way, way back that IF the Warden DID come back, we have to keep in mind that they are no longer ours and the writers can do what they want with them, etc.
No, not in the context of the recent tweet, sure. It was said way, way back that IF the Warden DID come back, we have to keep in mind that they are no longer ours and the writers can do what they want with them, etc.
I'm aware.
Hawke was more of a character on her own than The Warden, i agree. And because of that we had more character development than the The Warden ever could have. But... Why is that such a bad thing for The Warden?
I could have played that story 10 times over with different class, race and sex and still would my choices %99 similar if I were to do it whole-heartedly. Maybe because it was such a blank plate that The Warden has more sympathy then Hawke holds in general -which is the case for me too. Plus DA:O felt more like a family with companions having a same place to share, that campfire - made you felt warmer in general. Besides crew interactions were better IMPOV. And the companions themselves... Alistair, Morrigan, Leilana, Sten, Zevran... Maybe Oghren was a bit dwarven-sterotype a bit. DA:2's most loved companion is Varric. He is fun, I agree, but the guy doesn't even have a fixed opinion on matters in a city such as Kirkwall. Origins characters, especially Leilana, Alistair and Morrigan were like a part of the puzzle compared to that.
It only makes sense that people like The Warden who romanced Morrigan, did the DR and went with her through the Eluvian because It was all part of the same game. First Dragon Age games was Dragon Age: Origins. People have played it as a whole and one character. I didn't wanted to kill my character because there was a way to survive. And since that way was such a rare and came from a friend, at it's minimum, it's only normal you accept it. Then you take over the Awakening with that exact same character naturally, so is the case for Witch Hunt. So I don't like the idea that my Warden is dead and I have played with some unknown, most importantly unknown to me, through Awakening then hunt the Morrigan with him. Seriously I don't remember it but why the hell would that Warden chase after Morrigan. If the Dark Ritual never happened and if I'm going to fail on killing her while not knowing what she is going to do other than she has his own agenda what was the point of The Witch Hunt? This whole thing doesn't add up to the experience of the first game which established the franchise and still favored over it's sequel.
Random characters popping up are never a good thing either. When we get to know heroes like The Warden and Hawke what value they hold if from the middle of nowhere an Orlesian Commander would pop-up and become basically stood equally to them? I mean it never is such a good idea to abandon a character when you already made it possible to establish him as a character. The Warden going through the DR, Awakening and Witch Hunt is a fit. I don't know how serious this Dalish Elf - Orlesian Commander storyline has been established int their plans so far but this itself is game breaker big enough for me to cut my ties with the franchise. I'm sure lots of people would have the same disappointment regarding to character of The Warden. So I'm fine with this Warden they have hinted enough with DLCs in Origins being their Warden in his characteristics. But although never established as Cannon the likely hinted scenario of his should stay as hinted.
For me it is actually easy for my wardens personality (picture) he is always the good guy in overall. that kind of personality is easy but what I have come to understand is that usually the small things is difficult to control. take this as an example for my warden:
He doesn't tolerate "blood magic" in any sense no one deserves mercy for that.
That kind of things is difficult but what is required is a Action situation you are in, that way you don't have to go into the details of the character.
I'm sure it will more likely be action oriented as to avoid any giant oversights, etc.
Personally, I just hope the Warden says silent and lets Hawke do the talking. It'll be like Red from Pokemon Gold. Hawke can even some quote about him being the "silent type" or "man/woman of action".
No. There's a thread about that. It is assumed that they meant the Keep will import your Warden's portrait (and only in the keep, not in the actual game).Oh. My. God... could this be confirmation?The warden and the Keep.
Not necessarily. DA:I is going to implement Origins' decisions. So profile picture from Origins might be the one that is going to be implemented. This doesn't confirm Warden is going to be in the Inquisition.
As David Gaider said way back, your old hero isn't yours anymore. All they would really need to take into account is your race/romance and perhaps another couple key choices as to determine if you were good or not. i.e did you murder all of the dalish for the werewolves, or bring about peace, etc.
But after that, what they choose to do with your old hero, that's up to their story. It's been 10 years, and no doubt the Warden has grown up and essentially, become their own person. So I personally would like to see how Bioware will utilize that, and how they'll take advantage of our choices, via the Keep.
It's not like they haven't made a PC character into a NPC before.
At least it's not untreaded ground.
Guest_Trojan.Vundo_*
yeah that would be good.Personally, I just hope the Warden says silent and lets Hawke do the talking. It'll be like Red from Pokemon Gold. Hawke can even some quote about him being the "silent type" or "man/woman of action".
Don't let me get into whole Revan and Old Republic business though. I had my share of biggest disappointment after not having KotOR 3 then all getting blown up with TOR story-line. Seriously backstabbed Exile? I'm not blaming on this one though. You know... Circumstances! Lucas though... Luke Skywalker is the strongest Jedi and Darth Sidious is the strongest Sith because I'm the one who wrote them. Characters like Nihilus, Exile, Kreia whom all had some character in the force are forgotten, just like that. Anyway...
Am I the only one who wants the Warden I described should have been the more-likely-canon in story? Like Alistair being King, Leilana living... It's just with DLCs like Awakening and Witch Hunt it always gave me that vibe. I would be OK with it if Origins' original campaign was the end of it all.
Not necessarily. DA:I is going to implement Origins' decisions. So profile picture from Origins might be the one that is going to be implemented. This doesn't confirm Warden is going to be in the Inquisition.
Keep might function as a bridge for the appearance but to what degree? I mean Keep might save an image of your Warden's portrait then show it in game to you so you can copy it. But is it going to automatically determine it for you in-game character creation screen? It's hard... Maybe using some kind of template algorithm it might be possible but I think it's kind of useless considering how drastically graphics changed after two games. Doesn't matter though, more The Warden the merrier.
Keep might function as a bridge for the appearance but to what degree? I mean Keep might save an image of your Warden's portrait then show it in game to you so you can copy it. But is it going to automatically determine it for you in-game character creation screen? It's hard... Maybe using some kind of template algorithm it might be possible but I think it's kind of useless considering how drastically graphics changed after two games. Doesn't matter though, more The Warden the merrier.
It could potentially help with hair colour and race, etc and save you time. But if it's anything like how ME assumed your character looked when importing, I'd rather just start from scratch. xD
I dont think that bioware would just tweet regarding a portrait appearance in DAK it is just to simple. No what i think is that the keep will function as a bridge for the appearance. No CC.
NEVER Take anything at face value in tweets
Well, they've already said there will be a character creator for Hawke and potentially the Warden. They just didn't say where they would be exactly.
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