650 réponses à ce sujet

[ziloe]

This topic is not something that Bioware can get away from they have to address the warden question they cannot let that character stay disappeared forever because it would have the same affect as if they killed the warden off. it just send the message that the warden fans can be sacrificed while the hawke fans has more worth

Not necessarily. From a game designer's perspective, Hawke is just a lot easier to implement. Where as, with the Warden, you'd have to implement a voice and the player agency is gone, given that you can't account for the 10 years that have gone by. With Hawke, you can. And because of that, a lot of fans might feel snubbed for it, so Bioware may just avoid that potential issue altogether.

Regardless, I believe it was David Gaider who once said that even IF they brought the Warden back, it's no longer yours. Personally, I'm totally okay with that. I just want some closure, as the Warden's mysterious disappearance ripped any of that away that I had, when my Warden went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, but is now apparently gone.

[dsl08002]

Not necessarily. From a game designer's perspective, Hawke is just a lot easier to implement. Where as, with the Warden, you'd have to implement a voice and the player agency is gone, given that you can't account for the 10 years that have gone by. With Hawke, you can. And because of that, a lot of fans might feel snubbed for it, so Bioware may just avoid that potential issue altogether.
Regardless, I believe it was David Gaider who once said that even IF they brought the Warden back, it's no longer yours. Personally, I'm totally okay with that. I just want some closure, as the Warden's mysterious disappearance ripped any of that away that I had, when my Warden went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, but is now apparently gone.

Thats the thing: it would be easier to implement Hawke, it would be easier to take the car to work, it would be easier to drop a bomb on a town to capture a killer.

This is once again a question between the easy path and the right path.

If its difficult you get points for trying. The person that tries something new and difficult get more points than the person who wants to make it easy for themself

[Heimdall]

Thats the thing: it would be easier to implement Hawke, it would be easier to take the car to work, it would be easier to drop a bomb on a town to capture a killer.

This is once again a question between the easy path and the right path.

If its difficult you get points for trying. The person that tries something new and difficult get more points than the person who wants to make it easy for themself

...Unless of course by failing they utterly ruin the experience and the character.

Points for trying? Small consolation when the result is wreckage.

[dsl08002]

There will always be risk but you should let it blind and intimidate you.

 

The only thing that you can say is that I will do my best, you cant ask for anything more than that.

 

The parable I can find here is that they implement morrigan and leliana from DAO and they look different from that engine but it look good regardless. if they can do that why not with the warden.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There will always be risk but you should let it blind and intimidate you.

 

The only thing that you can say is that I will do my best, you cant ask for anything more than that.

 

The parable I can find here is that they implement morrigan and leliana from DAO and they look different from that engine but it look good regardless. if they can do that why not with the warden.

That's not the same challenge. They not only have to come up with the Warden's face in the new graphics engine, they have to come up with a way to create a personality for him or her that's not dissimilar enough to tick off the fans, and for it to work with any Warden. To give you some idea of the scale of that challenge: I've completed the original campaign of DA:O with twelve Wardens, among them a homicidal Chantry-hating Dalish who nonetheless believes elven lives to be inherently valuable, and also a mostly benevolent and assimilated Dalish who values all lives except Loghain's. Then there's the magic-obsessed DN who did most of the evil decisions solely because that's the path to having the most powerfully magical army, and the mostly ruthless CE who nonetheless has a soft spot for any (non-Dalish) elf. And you can expect me to groan with irritation if any of that is directly contradicted by the developers' use of them, regardless of the fact that in my rational mind I know the programmers can't read my mind. Nor is that likely to be the strongest response on the part of the fans.

 

That's the sort of challenge and risk where you have to start considering whether or not "doing your best" is going to be good enough, and whether or not there's an easier task one can substitute.

[dsl08002]

That's not the same challenge. They not only have to come up with the Warden's face in the new graphics engine, they have to come up with a way to create a personality for him or her that's not dissimilar enough to tick off the fans, and for it to work with any Warden. To give you some idea of the scale of that challenge: I've completed the original campaign of DA:O with twelve Wardens, among them a homicidal Chantry-hating Dalish who nonetheless believes elven lives to be inherently valuable, and one of whom is a mostly benevolent and assimilated Dalish who values all lives. Then there's the magic-obsessed DN who did most of the evil decisions solely because that's the path to having the most powerfully magical army, and the mostly ruthless CE who nonetheless has a soft spot for any (non-Dalish) elf. And you can expect me to groan with irritation if any of that is directly contradicted by the developers' use of them, regardless of the fact that in my rational mind I know the programmers can't read my mind. Nor is that likely to be the strongest response on the part of the fans.
 
That's the sort of challenge and risk where you have to start considering whether or not "doing your best" is going to be good enough, and whether or not there's an easier task one can substitute.

Yes but ignore the character in the game and later get a small ending slide, its just rotten, rotten to the core

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yes but ignore the character in the game and later get a small ending slide, its just rotten, rotten to the core

So that alternative is out. But they've got an entire team of people trying to think of something to do. I think they'll come up with something at least decent for the Warden, in the next game if not this one.

[ziloe]

So that alternative is out. But they've got an entire team of people trying to think of something to do. I think they'll come up with something at least decent for the Warden, in the next game if not this one.

Even if we don't see the Warden (which I think is a major missed opportunity given Leliana and Morrigan's appearance), the reality is that Bioware is taking a huge chance with Hawke to begin with. They don't want another backlash and they're trying to make up for the previous mistakes, so I think we have to give them a little leniency and the benefit of the doubt that they're really trying. And sure, should this work out and the feedback for Hawke be positive, I think that gives them more belief in that leap of faith that is the Warden.

I mean it's not to say that if not in the main game, we won't see him/her in upcoming DLC expansions, if the want for it is still strong.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Even if we don't see the Warden (which I think is a major missed opportunity given Leliana and Morrigan's appearance), the reality is that Bioware is taking a huge chance with Hawke to begin with. They don't want another backlash and they're trying to make up for the previous mistakes, so I think we have to give them a little leniency and the benefit of the doubt that they're really trying. And sure, should this work out and the feedback for Hawke be positive, I think that gives them more belief in that leap of faith that is the Warden.

I mean it's not to say that if not in the main game, we won't see him/her in upcoming DLC expansions, if the want for it is still strong.

They're not taking much of a chance with me. I've never rolled a Hawke and probably never will.

[ziloe]

They're not taking much of a chance with me. I've never rolled a Hawke and probably never will.

While I wasn't a huge fan of how DA2 seemed to railroad our choices, overall it wasn't a terrible story. And had there been more options when it came to exploration and not recycling assets, it might have been a more worthy game to play. But for now, to pass the time? It's really not so bad, and it feels a lot easier to ease into because for whatever reason, I find it harder to replay passed DA:O's beginning more than a few times.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

While I wasn't a huge fan of how DA2 seemed to railroad our choices, overall it wasn't a terrible story. And had there been more options when it came to exploration and not recycling assets, it might have been a more worthy game to play. But for now, to pass the time? It's really not so bad, and it feels a lot easier to ease into because for whatever reason, I find it harder to replay passed DA:O's beginning more than a few times.

There's other games I can play to pass the time. I have a copy of Fallout 2 waiting for me on gog.com that I haven't even touched, for instance. And I'm only halfway through the main quest in Skyrim.

[robertthebard]

This topic is not something that Bioware can get away from they have to address the warden question they cannot let that character stay disappeared forever because it would have the same affect as if they killed the warden off. it just send the message that the warden fans can be sacrificed while the hawke fans has more worth

My canon Warden is already dead, they can't kill her off. There-in lies the problem, doesn't it? How many others took the US route? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Hawke is easy, relatively, since there's no end game scenario where Hawke is dead, just missing.

[ziloe]

There's other games I can play to pass the time. I have a copy of Fallout 2 waiting for me on gog.com that I haven't even touched, for instance. And I'm only halfway through the main quest in Skyrim.

I tell this to everyone who mentions Skyrim, btw. But if you're playing on PC, you absolutely must get the mod "Interesting NPCs." Most followers in it will even react to the quests you're in too, and for many of them, that includes the main storyline.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I tell this to everyone who mentions Skyrim, btw. But if you're playing on PC, you absolutely must get the mod "Interesting NPCs." Most followers in it will even react to the quests you're in too, and for many of them, that includes the main storyline.

My brother wanted Skyrim for the PS3, and he wanted a copy more than I did so he got to pick the platform. I wasn't even going to bother playing it (since I prefer PC gaming when I'm not doing tabletop, and also because summer vacation ends in about a week and a half and so this isn't the time to get a new game) except that he insisted I at least try.

 

Edit: Also, I rarely use followers. Edit2: Yes, this does make fighting dragons outside of the Main Quest more trouble than it's worth.

[ziloe]

My brother wanted Skyrim for the PS3, and he wanted a copy more than I did so he got to pick the platform. I wasn't even going to bother playing it (since I prefer PC gaming when I'm not doing tabletop, and also because summer vacation ends in about a week and a half and so this isn't the time to get a new game) except that he insisted I at least try.

 

Edit: Also, I rarely use followers. Edit2: Yes, this does make fighting dragons outside of the Main Quest more trouble than it's worth.

 

Ah, fair enough. Perhaps later then. I know it may only be a few months before the release of Skywind, a Morrowind mod updated with all the Skyrim assets, etc.

Ha, and yeah, I have no doubt that could be a problem. It makes me glad to know the dragons will be a lot better in DA:I. I always hated how they'd just ignore you in Skyrim, if you couldn't reach them in time or hit them with arrows, etc.

[KC_Prototype]

My canon Warden is already dead, they can't kill her off. There-in lies the problem, doesn't it? How many others took the US route? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Hawke is easy, relatively, since there's no end game scenario where Hawke is dead, just missing.

So....

[Chari]

My canon Warden is already dead, they can't kill her off. There-in lies the problem, doesn't it? How many others took the US route? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Hawke is easy, relatively, since there's no end game scenario where Hawke is dead, just missing.

If your Warden's dead there's still the orlesian one
My warden is alive and I want to see her not being forgotten and tossed away yet the failure called Hawke getting more spotlight

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I always hated how they'd just ignore you in Skyrim, if you couldn't reach them in time or hit them with arrows, etc.

Please tell me what sorcery you used to accomplish this. I freaking hate these fights. The High Dragon on the slopes of Mt. Sacred Ashes was less painful because at least that one I can win.

[ziloe]

Please tell me what sorcery you used to accomplish this. I freaking hate these fights. The High Dragon on the slopes of Mt. Sacred Ashes was less painful because at least that one I can win.

Reloading.

[ziloe]

If your Warden's dead there's still the orlesian one
My warden is alive and I want to see her not being forgotten and tossed away yet the failure called Hawke getting more spotlight

Hawke is not a failure. The story itself was fine, and EA didn't anticipate their newly acquired IP would recieve such a backlash for the rush. But now that they have, they know better. If they didn't, this franchise wouldn't have had the extension it has.

[robertthebard]

So....

So it's easier to take the default Hawke, whom everyone gets to see at the beginning of the game, and is easily recognizable to add to a trailer. I wonder, how many default Wardens are there?

If your Warden's dead there's still the orlesian one
My warden is alive and I want to see her not being forgotten and tossed away yet the failure called Hawke getting more spotlight

Hawke, at least, was believed to still be alive, instead of possibly confirmed dead. Hawke had a default appearance that everyone that's played the game, and a lot of people that haven't can probably recognize. I wonder, however, how blown up the boards would have been if they'd said "that Warden is your Warden"?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I wonder, however, how blown up the boards would have been if they'd said "that Warden is your Warden"?

They'd probably find bits on Mars.

[ziloe]

They'd probably find bits on Mars.

At least until it was revealed you could customize them to your hearts content. ;D

[ziloe]

My canon Warden is already dead, they can't kill her off. There-in lies the problem, doesn't it? How many others took the US route? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Hawke is easy, relatively, since there's no end game scenario where Hawke is dead, just missing.

You can kill off Mordin in ME2 as well. But it doesn't mean if there isn't an important story arc that they won't have an alternate replacement, just in case. And that's exactly what they did for Mordin and even Wrex. The list goes on.

[bEVEsthda]

IMO, neither Hawke nor the Warden should be in the game. Not so much because I don't want them in the game (OK, I don't want Hawke) but because I kinda trust the team that is making DA:I to get it wrong, if they did. I have written a couple of times about the only way I can see it as done, and maybe they are sort of skirting that approach with Hawke, I dunno, we'll see. But I would say that Hawke is probably more dangerous to try than the Warden, so the developers choice is kinda surprising that way. But then they, personally, maybe weren't finished with Hawke, and that is the real reason? Somehow, that thought makes me moody again, so I won't develop that line.

 

Finally, of course, IMO none should be returning in DA:I. Not Morrigan, not Varric, none. But that's just me, of course.

That would be the safest way. And what's wrong with entirely new, interesting, exciting cast of characters? And let the old be tied to their old games.