354 réponses à ce sujet

[SilJeff]

When Mass Effect 2 did absolutely nothing forcing ME3 to carry the weight of both.

 

 

I thought ME3 was pretty good considering the failure of the previous game's plot

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The plot was doomed from the beginning of ME2. 

But the point that made me realize just how much Cerberus would be involved was Sur'Kesh.

Ah yes, they were able to find, attack, and defeat a heavily fortified, secret STG facility on the Salarians' homeworld. 

But no, they had "Reaper Tech."

That was the "oh, ****" moment. 

[Steelcan]

When Mass Effect 2 did absolutely nothing forcing ME3 to carry the weight of both.

 

 

I thought ME3 was pretty good considering the failure of the previous game's plot

While I agree that ME2 did let down on advancing the plot, it is not responsible for the tripe that was Cerberus in ME3, the horribly botched Thessia segment, the lack of side missions, etc...

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

While I agree that ME2 did let down on advancing the plot, it is not responsible for the tripe that was Cerberus in ME3, the horribly botched Thessia segment, the lack of side missions, etc...

 

I'm one of the few in the camp that just doesn't see how ME2 let down the plot at all. I can see its flaws, but I don't see where it was the source for the dam breaking. 

[Steelcan]

I'm one of the few in the camp that just doesn't see how ME2 let down the plot at all. I can see its flaws, but I don't see where it was the source for the dam breaking. 

No progress was made in the Reaper plot line, sure we took out the Collectors, but that's barely a drop in the bucket of reaper tools.  We are essentially at the same spot we were at the end of ME1 only the Council has backtracked now.

[Oni Changas]

First playthrough?

Legion: "Beautiful... indicative of life."

Upon thinking more critically, a romanced Ash saying she used to know Shepard despite sending an email of forgiveness in ME2 implying that she understood my mission against the Collectors.

Another major one was Cerberus attacking on Sur'Kesh.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I'm one of the few in the camp that just doesn't see how ME2 let down the plot at all. I can see its flaws, but I don't see where it was the source for the dam breaking. 

Nothing that happens in the main plot actually matters?

The Collectors were never really a threat, more of a minor issue solvable by paying Aria to position some cruisers at the Omega 4 relay. 

The only important missions, IIRC, are Tali's and Legion's loyalty missions, because they can affect QG peace. 

[KaiserShep]

When Shepard insists that she's going to find a way to stop the Reapers at the end of ME1, the reaper fleet approaching the galaxy at the end of ME2, and Shepard having nothing to really say to the defense council before they die.

[ImaginaryMatter]

While I agree that ME2 did let down on advancing the plot, it is not responsible for the tripe that was Cerberus in ME3, the horribly botched Thessia segment, the lack of side missions, etc...

 

That's my view. ME2 is only so much of a handicap.

[themikefest]

While I agree that ME2 did let down on advancing the plot, it is not responsible for the tripe that was Cerberus in ME3, the horribly botched Thessia segment, the lack of side missions, etc...

For me, Thessia is the worst mission in the trilogy

 

The only important missions, IIRC, are Tali's and Legion's loyalty missions, because they can affect QG peace. 

I might be one of the few that having Tali and Legion in ME3 should not be a requirement to get peace. We didn't need any specific character to cure/sabotage the genophage.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

No progress was made in the Reaper plot line, sure we took out the Collectors, but that's barely a drop in the bucket of reaper tools.  We are essentially at the same spot we were at the end of ME1 only the Council has backtracked now.

 

Honestly, I'm skeptical of what could really advance the Reaper plot-line. In ME1, we stopped them from coming through the Citadel. Now they're coming towards us the long way. What else are they supposed to do? And I'm honestly not that surprised at the Council's decision. 

[DeathScepter]

Cerberus rebuild or at least study the Reaper Killer Mass Accerelator Cannon of Dead Reaper quest. yeah so much potential not enough follow thru.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I might be one of the few that having Tali and Legion in ME3 should not be a requirement to get peace. We didn't need any specific character to cure/sabotage the genophage.

Well, Legion for sure. He's just a Geth platform. and the consensus shouldn't give a rat's ass about what he says. But with Tali, she is a member of Admiralty board, (whether or not this is such a good idea is another subject) and what she says carries weight. 

 

Honestly, I'm skeptical of what could really advance the Reaper plot-line. In ME1, we stopped them from coming through the Citadel. Now they're coming towards us the long way. What else are they supposed to do? And I'm honestly not that surprised at the Council's decision. 

Doing all the alliance-making would've been a good thing to have in 2 instead of 3. 

The whole Rannoch and Genophage arcs would fit better before the war happens. The whole mind-change thing is insanely stupid. Maybe the Asari government might try to deny it, but the Turians and Salarians? No ****** way. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

I might be one of the few that having Tali and Legion in ME3 should not be a requirement to get peace. We didn't need any specific character to cure/sabotage the genophage.

 

Especially considering the Rannoch peace option is just Shepard telling the Quarians not to attack.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Doing all the alliance-making would've been a good thing to have in 2 instead of 3. 

The whole Rannoch and Genophage arcs would fit better before the war happens. The whole mind-change thing is insanely stupid. Maybe the Asari government might try to deny it, but the Turians and Salarians? No ****** way. 

 

Then what would you do for ME3? 

 

The mind-change is insanely stupid. And it's perfectly justifiable because, ta-da! The Council is insanely stupid. They go together very well. 

 

It's basically ignorance born of terror. The Council doesn't want to acknowledge the threat because it would mean undermining their power to work on combating and preparing for it. And the threat, as Anderson says, it nightmare stuff and the Council wants to pretend and hope that its not real. Plus, the skeptical side probably came forward when they started seeing a distinct lack of evidence supporting the existence of the Reapers. It wasn't hard to dismiss existing evidence to Geth creation, as they are known to be particularly advanced.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Then what would you do for ME3? 

 

The mind-change is insanely stupid. And it's perfectly justifiable because, ta-da! The Council is insanely stupid. They go together very well. 

 

It's basically ignorance born of terror. The Council doesn't want to acknowledge the threat because it would mean undermining their power to work on combating and preparing for it. And the threat, as Anderson says, it nightmare stuff and the Council wants to pretend and hope that its not real. Plus, the skeptical side probably came forward when they started seeing a distinct lack of evidence supporting the existence of the Reapers. It wasn't hard to dismiss existing evidence to Geth creation, as they are known to be particularly advanced.

Fight the Reapers, maybe? It's a long shot, but it might just work. 

The Council answers to their governments. And at least the Hierarchy and Union would take the threat seriously. 

Do the Turians or Salarians really seem like groups who would cower and deny a threat such as a Reapers, because they're scared? Or would they even be scared? The Turians would start fortifying like hell and the Salarians would start doing a whole bunch of things. The STG doesn't **** around. Of course, I could see Humans, Asari, and the Quarians doing such a thing. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 When I read this article: http://www.gamefront...re-we-thinking/

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Fight the Reapers, maybe? It's a long shot, but it might just work. 

The Council answers to their governments. And at least the Hierarchy and Union would take the threat seriously. 

Do the Turians or Salarians really seem like groups who would cower and deny a threat such as a Reapers, because they're scared? Or would they even be scared? The Turians would start fortifying like hell and the Salarians would start doing a whole bunch of things. The STG doesn't **** around. Of course, I could see Humans, Asari, and the Quarians doing such a thing. 

 

It's not a longshot. You'd get wiped out (hilariously fast) every time. Hence why I'm opposed to a game dedicated to fighting them outright. You need to be doing something else. Like building alliances and gathering resources. Otherwise, you'd just be sitting in the Normandy bedroom, playing with yourself and sleeping with the LI, waiting for the Crucible to be built.

 

That's speculation on your part; we never hear any information that the Council is answerable to any of its member races. Also, according to Garrus, the Turians barely listened to warnings about the Reapers; they basically did a perfunctory acknowledgement, mainly to shut Garrus and his father up by making it look like they were doing something.

 

The Salarians meanwhile basically held out on assistance all because of a grudge with the Krogans. The head of the Salarians seems to think that the Krogan are a larger threat than the Reapers, so they're pretty ineffectual as well for the most part.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

 When I read this article: http://www.gamefront...re-we-thinking/

 

That article, and SuperMac's acknowledgements, are more to do with the SM mechanic (which I admit, and have always admitted was one of the flaws of ME2). That's not really what I'm arguing about on here though. People are incredulous that I say that ME2 actually has a valid place in the story, and personally, the way I view a lot of the things in ME1 and ME2 compared to ME3, I do say that ME3 was the source of most of the problems that I see within the plot of the story.

[ZipZap2000]

Citadel when Thane gets stabbed by a space ninja.

 

I immediately thought 'Crap they're going to kill everyone to add some emotion to it' I just so happened to be using a play through in which I'd made ALL the wrong decisions, wound up losing Jack (romance), Mordin, Thane, Tali AND Legion, Miranda, Kelly, Cortez and Eve even lost samara when I leant down to pick up my coffee and missed the prompt. Also didn't realise you needed multiplayer to unlock the better endings so I'm pretty sure Ashley Grunt Jacob and whoever else was left, if anyone died when I blew up half the galaxy by mistake.

 

Literally  didn't pick the controller up for a month.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It's not a longshot. You'd get wiped out (hilariously fast) every time. Hence why I'm opposed to a game dedicated to fighting them outright. You need to be doing something else. Like building alliances and gathering resources. Otherwise, you'd just be sitting in the Normandy bedroom, playing with yourself and sleeping with the LI, waiting for the Crucible to be built.

 

That's speculation on your part; we never hear any information that the Council is answerable to any of its member races. Also, according to Garrus, the Turians barely listened to warnings about the Reapers; they basically did a perfunctory acknowledgement, mainly to shut Garrus and his father up by making it look like they were doing something.

 

The Salarians meanwhile basically held out on assistance all because of a grudge with the Krogans. The head of the Salarians seems to think that the Krogan are a larger threat than the Reapers, so they're pretty ineffectual as well for the most part.

I was unaware that Mass Effect is an RTS. It's not like a Spectre is just not going to be told to do something. Scout for stuff, raid processing facilities, do Miracle at Palaven type stuff. It's not that hard, and would still be far, far, far more important than the whole Collectors incident. 

Actually, we do. The Asari councilor more or less states it in the private meeting, and the Turian thing is once again, like the whole heads-up-their-asses thing, bad writing. 

Which is, once again, just bad writing. And from all background information, the Salarian military would be worth 4-5 times more than the Alliance is a straight up, conventional war, and 40 times more in asymmetric warfare. You're just reinforcing my point, the writing is bad. 

But even if all you said was true, the Collectors still don't matter whatsoever. Insignificant forces, with only a couple, (possibly one), weak ships. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I was unaware that Mass Effect is an RTS. It's not like a Spectre is just not going to be told to do something. Scout for stuff, raid processing facilities, do Miracle at Palaven type stuff. It's not that hard, and would still be far, far, far more important than the whole Collectors incident. 

Actually, we do. The Asari councilor more or less states it in the private meeting, and the Turian thing is once again, like the whole heads-up-their-asses thing, bad writing. 

Which is, once again, just bad writing. And from all background information, the Salarian military would be worth 4-5 times more than the Alliance is a straight up, conventional war, and 40 times more in asymmetric warfare. You're just reinforcing my point, the writing is bad. 

But even if all you said was true, the Collectors still don't matter whatsoever. Insignificant forces, with only a couple, (possibly one), weak ships. 

 

I disagree completely, mainly because stopping the Collectors is very damned important. For starters, they're building a Reaper. Next, they're abducting entire human colonies to be turned into paste for said Reaper (or husks or even indoctrinated agents). And they present a very clear, credible threat. Scouting for stuff isn't nearly as important as that, though you're also doing just that by securing information about the Reapers from the Collectors. You're basically already raiding a processing facility as it is with the Collectors. And pyrrhic victories in battle aren't going to win you a war. None of these are valid points in contention.

 

I'm going to require more proof than just saying that they're answerable in one meeting, and even if they were, you're also going to have to tell me that the Council, who answers to its member races, is somehow defying them since, according to you, all the member races believe in the Reaper threat. And dismissing anything you disagree with as 'bad writing', ala the Turian leadership being skeptical of the Reapers (as Garrus tells it) does not make said thing bad writing.

 

Same as above: an addendum to it though. This whole shebang is in ME3 alone. How the hell can you blame the Salarian reaction to the Krogan in ME3 on ME2? You're reinforcing my point that the writing in ME3 isn't very good.

 

That's nonsense. The Collectors are building a Reaper. They're attacking and destroying entire human colonies. How, pray tell, is that insignificant? And a 'weak' ship? It obliterated the original Normandy and demolished a Turian scout flotilla. The only other action you can base this on is a fight with the SR-2, which is acknoweldged as the most advanced starship in the galaxy (sans anything Reaper-based), and one of the fastest. You'd need a lot more than just a few engagements to call it weak. Even the alliance seemed to view it as a real threat. And the Collectors, by reputation, are known to be a very advanced and powerful force. You're dismissal of them is ineffectual based on their history, narrative actions, and one event against a ship that's hardly on the same scale as any normal or standard ship.

[KaiserShep]

Did it actually take out a turian scout flotilla? I thought that part was fabricated for the trap.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Did it actually take out a turian scout flotilla? I thought that part was fabricated for the trap.

 

No, you can see the wreckage of the ships in the cutscenes for that mission. It killed them alright.

[wolfhowwl]

Fight the Reapers, maybe? It's a long shot, but it might just work. 

The Council answers to their governments. And at least the Hierarchy and Union would take the threat seriously. 

Do the Turians or Salarians really seem like groups who would cower and deny a threat such as a Reapers, because they're scared? Or would they even be scared? The Turians would start fortifying like hell and the Salarians would start doing a whole bunch of things. The STG doesn't **** around. Of course, I could see Humans, Asari, and the Quarians doing such a thing. 

 

But if the Council acknowledged the Reaper threat (or if the Alliance cared about humans being kidnapped) that would demolish pretty much the only thing propping up ME2's Cerberus plot and having Shepard work with them.

 

Well, we can't have that, now can we?