354 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I disagree completely, mainly because stopping the Collectors is very damned important. For starters, they're building a Reaper. Next, they're abducting entire human colonies to be turned into paste for said Reaper (or husks or even indoctrinated agents). And they present a very clear, credible threat. Scouting for stuff isn't nearly as important as that, though you're also doing just that by securing information about the Reapers from the Collectors. You're basically already raiding a processing facility as it is with the Collectors. And pyrrhic victories in battle aren't going to win you a war. None of these are valid points in contention.

 

I'm going to require more proof than just saying that they're answerable in one meeting, and even if they were, you're also going to have to tell me that the Council, who answers to its member races, is somehow defying them since, according to you, all the member races believe in the Reaper threat. And dismissing anything you disagree with as 'bad writing', ala the Turian leadership being skeptical of the Reapers (as Garrus tells it) does not make said thing bad writing.

 

Same as above: an addendum to it though. This whole shebang is in ME3 alone. How the hell can you blame the Salarian reaction to the Krogan in ME3 on ME2? You're reinforcing my point that the writing in ME3 isn't very good.

 

That's nonsense. The Collectors are building a Reaper. They're attacking and destroying entire human colonies. How, pray tell, is that insignificant? And a 'weak' ship? It obliterated the original Normandy and demolished a Turian scout flotilla. The only other action you can base this on is a fight with the SR-2, which is acknoweldged as the most advanced starship in the galaxy (sans anything Reaper-based), and one of the fastest. You'd need a lot more than just a few engagements to call it weak. Even the alliance seemed to view it as a real threat. And the Collectors, by reputation, are known to be a very advanced and powerful force. You're dismissal of them is ineffectual based on their history, narrative actions, and one event against a ship that's hardly on the same scale as any normal or standard ship.

They're building one Reaper. One more, that isn't even close to being complete, to hundreds. Yep, that's worth months of effort. What information did Shepard secure for the actual war effort? None of the information seems to have actually gotten, intentionally, to the Council races; the ones that matter. Well, the Salarians did take the Reaper IFF, but that's about it. 

Tevos/whoever is the replacement councilor, (I always save the Council), says the whole business regarding the beacon was known only to higher ranking members in her government. Which means that the Asari councilor is a part of the Asari government, at the very least. The same reason the player knows the Council denying the Reapers is stupid is the same reason they should not have, in a intelligently written story, shoved their own heads up their respective asses. There is a plethora of evidence pointing to the reality of the Reapers existence, and realistically, there is no reason for them to deny it. Using "because they're sacred" is just plain stupid, unless one is suggesting that Council Space is run by a trio of dictators. Governments, and militaries, have decision-making power placed in the hands of many different people for good reason.

The Council denying the Reapers in ME2 paved the way for all of the other stupid writing decisions throughout ME3. But that is besides the point.

So what if they're building one Reaper? That won't supposedly won't be finished without having to attack actual Alliance space? It would not have been finished in six months, which is ultimately the time the Reapers came a knocking. The original Normandy was a weak ship, a godddamn frigate, and it took multiple shots from the Collector Cruiser's main gun to destroy. A single hit from a standard cruiser would one-shot the SR-1. It wasn't a scouting flotilla, it was a single ship. Which is also frigate-sized. So no, not a legitimate feat. It took the Normandy two shots from its main battery, (despite even more idiocy from Shepard, "Move in closer and finish them off"-- really?) to destroy it. The Normandy's main battery, with the Thanix upgrade, has cruiser-level firepower. Thus, it would take a cruiser, with only it's main gun, two shots to kill it. A cruiser can fire it's main gun once every two seconds, as opposed to the Normandy's Thanix once every five. The Normandy is more or a less a cruiser with stealth capabilities, that's it. 

So paying Aria some money, to station two cruisers within range of the Omega-4 would solve the problem. The Collectors can no longer get their human goo back to their base, and can't go out to collect any more. 

[AlanC9]

I immediately thought 'Crap they're going to kill everyone to add some emotion to it' I just so happened to be using a play through in which I'd made ALL the wrong decisions, wound up losing Jack (romance), Mordin, Thane, Tali AND Legion, Miranda, Kelly, Cortez and Eve even lost samara when I leant down to pick up my coffee and missed the prompt.

Let's see... you missed Grissom Academy and Tuchanka:Bomb, sided with the geth, didn't meet up with Kelly and Miranda, missed the Samara interrupt, didn't talk to Cortez... that covers it, right? Did you pick Destroy to complete the carnage?

Also didn't realise you needed multiplayer to unlock the better endings so I'm pretty sure Ashley Grunt Jacob and whoever else was left, if anyone died when I blew up half the galaxy by mistake.

There was plenty of EMS without MP to avoid that; the only thing you ever needed MP for was Shepard's survival. I guess you could get pretty low if you blew off the scanning, though.

[AlanC9]

So paying Aria some money, to station two cruisers within range of the Omega-4 would solve the problem. The Collectors can no longer get their human goo back to their base, and can't go out to collect any more.

Well, they can get into Citadel space easily enough. Bio botched trans-relay assaults when they set up the lore; drift actually helps the attacking force since they won't emerge in anybody's firing solution. Transiting back to their base would still be a problem, though.

On a related note, planets are indefensible in the MEU. If the quarians were smarter and more ruthless they could have blackmailed their way to galactic power, since they're now immune from having their planets bombed from space.

[AlanC9]

I was unaware that Mass Effect is an RTS. It's not like a Spectre is just not going to be told to do something. Scout for stuff, raid processing facilities, do Miracle at Palaven type stuff. It's not that hard, and would still be far, far, far more important than the whole Collectors incident. 

This sounds like the existing ME3, except that Shepard's doing less important stuff

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Well, they can get into Citadel space easily enough. Bio botched trans-relay assaults when they set up the lore; drift actually helps the attacking force since they won't emerge in anybody's firing solution. Transiting back to their base would still be a problem, though.

On a related note, planets are indefensible in the MEU. If the quarians were smarter and more ruthless they could have blackmailed their way to galactic power, since they're now immune from having their planets bombed from space.

But once they get into Citadel space, then what? Are they going to somehow plow through the fleets there? 

Well, the Quarians do rely on buying stuff from the Galaxy, but not being tied down to an indefensible planet is a major plus. 
 

This sounds like the existing ME3, except that Shepard's doing less important stuff

Well, that's me, with five seconds of thought. I'm sure there are more things available, maybe like looking for the Crucible, instead of waiting for it to be built, or something. 

[slimgrin]

The collectors in ME2. All of ME2 made me realize the writers hadn't planned this thing out.

[AlanC9]

Sure, a blockade could stop Collectors from getting home. But Bio'd just technobabble something..."the Omega-4 relay interferes with sensors," etc.

I agree that quarian blackmail wouldn't work if they actually started wrecking important planets and so destroyed the galactic economy. The trick is to start with the small ones --Elysium rather than Earth if it's the humans.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

That article, and SuperMac's acknowledgements, are more to do with the SM mechanic (which I admit, and have always admitted was one of the flaws of ME2). That's not really what I'm arguing about on here though. People are incredulous that I say that ME2 actually has a valid place in the story, and personally, the way I view a lot of the things in ME1 and ME2 compared to ME3, I do say that ME3 was the source of most of the problems that I see within the plot of the story.

 

As a sidequel, maybe. It doesn't deserve to be anything more than that, though.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Sure, a blockade could stop Collectors from getting home. But Bio'd just technobabble something..."the Omega-4 relay interferes with sensors," etc.

I agree that quarian blackmail wouldn't work if they actually started wrecking important planets and so destroyed the galactic economy. The trick is to start with the small ones --Elysium rather than Earth if it's the humans.

Seems likely. 

Hmmmm. I do remember, maybe it was Tali, mentioning that at one point, the Migrant Fleet could've challenged the Turians in war. In modern times the military-readiness has gone done, but it was still capable of taking on and defeating the Geth fleet, which is no easy task. So, maybe, if executed perfectly, the Quarians could strong-arm themselves a planet. 

 

[AlanC9]

Well, that's me, with five seconds of thought. I'm sure there are more things available, maybe like looking for the Crucible, instead of waiting for it to be built, or something.

In order to make a more constructive critique I'd need a better sense of the purported problem you're trying to solve. I don't see what the actual problem is with building alliances, so I don't know what would be an acceptable substitute.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

In order to make a more constructive critique I'd need a better sense of the purported problem you're trying to solve. I don't see what the actual problem is with building alliances, so I don't know what would be an acceptable substitute.

Well, no. There is no problem with building Alliances. It's a good thing. But it should've been done in the second game. 

So what could be the third?

[AlanC9]

Seems likely. 
Hmmmm. I do remember, maybe it was Tali, mentioning that at one point, the Migrant Fleet could've challenged the Turians in war. In modern times the military-readiness has gone done, but it was still capable of taking on and defeating the Geth fleet, which is no easy task. So, maybe, if executed perfectly, the Quarians could strong-arm themselves a planet.

I wasn't being clear there. I don't see how, given the technologies of the MEU, any fleet can defend a planet from an enemy that wants to outright destroy it. You can't stop them from coming through the relay, can't intercept them in FTL when moving to the planet, and can't prevent them from bombarding the planet.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

They're building one Reaper. One more, that isn't even close to being complete, to hundreds. Yep, that's worth months of effort. What information did Shepard secure for the actual war effort? None of the information seems to have actually gotten, intentionally, to the Council races; the ones that matter. Well, the Salarians did take the Reaper IFF, but that's about it. 

Tevos/whoever is the replacement councilor, (I always save the Council), says the whole business regarding the beacon was known only to higher ranking members in her government. Which means that the Asari councilor is a part of the Asari government, at the very least. The same reason the player knows the Council denying the Reapers is stupid is the same reason they should not have, in a intelligently written story, shoved their own heads up their respective asses. There is a plethora of evidence pointing to the reality of the Reapers existence, and realistically, there is no reason for them to deny it. Using "because they're sacred" is just plain stupid, unless one is suggesting that Council Space is run by a trio of dictators. Governments, and militaries, have decision-making power placed in the hands of many different people for good reason.

The Council denying the Reapers in ME2 paved the way for all of the other stupid writing decisions throughout ME3. But that is besides the point.

So what if they're building one Reaper? That won't supposedly won't be finished without having to attack actual Alliance space? It would not have been finished in six months, which is ultimately the time the Reapers came a knocking. The original Normandy was a weak ship, a godddamn frigate, and it took multiple shots from the Collector Cruiser's main gun to destroy. A single hit from a standard cruiser would one-shot the SR-1. It wasn't a scouting flotilla, it was a single ship. Which is also frigate-sized. So no, not a legitimate feat. It took the Normandy two shots from its main battery, (despite even more idiocy from Shepard, "Move in closer and finish them off"-- really?) to destroy it. The Normandy's main battery, with the Thanix upgrade, has cruiser-level firepower. Thus, it would take a cruiser, with only it's main gun, two shots to kill it. A cruiser can fire it's main gun once every two seconds, as opposed to the Normandy's Thanix once every five. The Normandy is more or a less a cruiser with stealth capabilities, that's it. 

So paying Aria some money, to station two cruisers within range of the Omega-4 would solve the problem. The Collectors can no longer get their human goo back to their base, and can't go out to collect any more. 

 

That's a pretty big thing, given that the Reapers purpose is to harvest all life and make a new Reaper every cycle. Plus, despite timescales that say otherwise, it's implied that the Reaper is going to be used as Sovereign mk. II. Shepard apparently secured plenty of information from the base. Look at the ending scene, where he has a datapad that explicitly has Harbinger appearing on it. I can't say why Shepard didn't get the information to the Council. Cerberus got it, as did the alliance, going by what Anderson says in the beginning of ME3. But I wouldn't call that a failing of ME2 now, because Shepard didn't submit the information to the Council.

 

Tevos being a councilor does not necessarily equate to her being privy to the information of the beacon. And if she was, I don't believe that it somehow means that the Council is answerable to their respective races. Otherwise you seem to be saying things that don't go against ME2 at all so much as they do ME3. And yes, the Council seems to have plenty of advanced knowledge about the Reapers but doesn't do anything about it. There are plenty of real-life aversions to the truth as well. We had plenty of information that al-Qaeda was planning on striking the United States, and, among other things up to and including mismanagement and very poor communication between government agencies and bureaus that didn't feel the threat was worth following up on, we did nothing (mainly because several organizations didn't bother to follow up on the tips, warnings and leads, including those acting under the direct authority of the President). So you can't say that it's either unrealistic or necessarily bad writing, since it does have an allegory/application to real events.

 

I disagree. I think the bad writing decisions on the part of ME3 were made during the writing of ME3 and caused by the writers of ME3. I blame a game for its own problems.

 

Technically, we never get much more than supposition evidence implied by theoretical postulations by EDI and a few statements by Garrus and Shepard that may or may not be hyperbole. As for the period of how long the Reaper was close to completion, you can't say that the Reaper invasion was 6 months after the SM. It was 6 months after the Arrival mission, with no information on how much time was between Arrival or the SM. Granted, you can play Arrival before the SM, but the its strongly implied that Arrival takes place as the final event of ME2, and after the SM.

 

I wouldn't call any ship weak, especially since we have almost nothing to go off on with its combat abilities. Your statements are completely unsubstantiated and are invalid statements that are dismissed. Your argument is heavily weakened by these claims.

 

Same with the Cruisers. If it was that simple, the Collectors wouldn't have a reputation for being very powerful and fierce. I very highly doubt that two regular cruisers (not using an experimental weapon based off of Reaper technology) would be able to stand up to a Collector-ship. In fact, in the face of the Turian scout patrol getting completely annihilated by the Collector Cruiser (with no obvious damage in return), I daresay that this statement is an appeal to mediocrity. You're trying to downplay something's capability when all narrative evidence points to the opposite of your conclusion.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

As a sidequel, maybe. It doesn't deserve to be anything more than that, though.

 

Again, I disagree completely. I'd say that it's a fine sequel to ME1. ME3 not following it is not ME2's fault. I don't believe in the purpose of retroactive blaming for everything that went wrong.

 

Were there flaws? Of course. But was it the story/narrative breaking that limited the progression and acceptable possibility for ME3? No, I don't think it was at all.

[KaiserShep]

The main plot stuff does feel more like an expansion than anything, considering just how few main plot missions there actually are. If not for things like recruitment, loyalty and the other assorted side missions, you'd basically have the Mass Effect equivalent of Dragon Age: Awakenings.

[Jorji Costava]

Again, I disagree completely. I'd say that it's a fine sequel to ME1. ME3 not following it is not ME2's fault. I don't believe in the purpose of retroactive blaming for everything that went wrong.

 

Were there flaws? Of course. But was it the story/narrative breaking that limited the progression and acceptable possibility for ME3? No, I don't think it was at all.

 

I do think that ME2 did have more relevance to the overall plot than many give it credit for, but the parts that turned out to matter weren't the parts we expected to matter. The loyalty missions of Tali, Legion and Mordin had plenty of relevance to the alliance-building arcs of ME3 (heck, some of the decisions made in these missions turned out to matter more than the Council and Rachni decisions of ME1). On the other hand, the entire Collector plotline could easily have been dropped altogether with minimal effect on the overall story of the series; further, ME2 didn't help its case for relevance by making so much of its most important story content optional.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

 further, ME2 didn't help its case for relevance by making so much of its most important story content optional.

 

Seeing that we've talked about the rest ad infinitum, I'll look at this one here; I'd say you're right to a degree, but I'd also say that this is kind of the wanted nature of the Western RPG, a nature that is considered essential to the entire genre-group.

 

I'll say that this is indeed a flaw, something that, like the SM, probably would have worked better off as in ME3 rather than ME2. It was premature, and when the time came in ME3, a lot of options were indeed given a perfunctory acknowledgement when they likely should have had much larger impacts in the game. 

 

The customization levels in ME2 are nice, but it would have worked much better had ME3 had the ability to deliver on their continuation. Unfortunately, that's where the time and budget restraints come into play.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

That's a pretty big thing, given that the Reapers purpose is to harvest all life and make a new Reaper every cycle. Plus, despite timescales that say otherwise, it's implied that the Reaper is going to be used as Sovereign mk. II. Shepard apparently secured plenty of information from the base. Look at the ending scene, where he has a datapad that explicitly has Harbinger appearing on it. I can't say why Shepard didn't get the information to the Council. Cerberus got it, as did the alliance, going by what Anderson says in the beginning of ME3. But I wouldn't call that a failing of ME2 now, because Shepard didn't submit the information to the Council.

 

Tevos being a councilor does not necessarily equate to her being privy to the information of the beacon. And if she was, I don't believe that it somehow means that the Council is answerable to their respective races. Otherwise you seem to be saying things that don't go against ME2 at all so much as they do ME3. And yes, the Council seems to have plenty of advanced knowledge about the Reapers but doesn't do anything about it. There are plenty of real-life aversions to the truth as well. We had plenty of information that al-Qaeda was planning on striking the United States, and, among other things up to and including mismanagement and very poor communication between government agencies and bureaus that didn't feel the threat was worth following up on, we did nothing (mainly because several organizations didn't bother to follow up on the tips, warnings and leads, including those acting under the direct authority of the President). So you can't say that it's either unrealistic or necessarily bad writing, since it does have an allegory/application to real events.

 

I disagree. I think the bad writing decisions on the part of ME3 were made during the writing of ME3 and caused by the writers of ME3. I blame a game for its own problems.

 

Technically, we never get much more than supposition evidence implied by theoretical postulations by EDI and a few statements by Garrus and Shepard that may or may not be hyperbole. As for the period of how long the Reaper was close to completion, you can't say that the Reaper invasion was 6 months after the SM. It was 6 months after the Arrival mission, with no information on how much time was between Arrival or the SM. Granted, you can play Arrival before the SM, but the its strongly implied that Arrival takes place as the final event of ME2, and after the SM.

 

I wouldn't call any ship weak, especially since we have almost nothing to go off on with its combat abilities. Your statements are completely unsubstantiated and are invalid statements that are dismissed. Your argument is heavily weakened by these claims.

 

Same with the Cruisers. If it was that simple, the Collectors wouldn't have a reputation for being very powerful and fierce. I very highly doubt that two regular cruisers (not using an experimental weapon based off of Reaper technology) would be able to stand up to a Collector-ship. In fact, in the face of the Turian scout patrol getting completely annihilated by the Collector Cruiser (with no obvious damage in return), I daresay that this statement is an appeal to mediocrity. You're trying to downplay something's capability when all narrative evidence points to the opposite of your conclusion.

The timescales say otherwise. That's all. What information could they get anyway, that could be used to win the war anyway? Weapon strength can be determined by using data from the Battle of the Citadel, so can speed, and everything else. And it's not like the Collector base is going to have numbers on shield strength. 

It doesn't equate that. I never said that it did. But she did say "higher ranking members of my government." That implies that she is part of the Asari government, no? Well, time to shoot off Chekov's Gun. Why did they make the Council idiots? To justify everything with Cerberus. Everything Cerberus is in ME2 is used to justify how they are in ME3. And Cerberus in ME3 is a huge ****** problem, at least to almost everyone but you. In this way, disregarding the Council, and everything involving the Spectres, set up the shitshow that is Cerberus in ME3. 

Of course a whole lot of the problems are ME3s own fault. But ME2 set the stage. 

Then how long was it until the Reapers came? 6 months, 8 months, 10 months? At most it's a year, but that's stretching it whole lot . Even with 12 months, it is still unlikely that the Reaper is finished. So, it can't be used as Sovereign 2.0. The Reapers would already be there by the time the Reapers came. 

We have nothing to go off for it's combat capabilities? Was the Collector cruiser NOT destroyed in two shots by the Thanix? Is the Normandy NOT stated to have a cruiser's firepower with the Thanix installed? Also, it was not a "Turian scouting flotilla." It was a Turian patrol. And judging by what is shown on screen, the patrol is a single, weak frigate. Which isn't that unbelieveable, it's a patrol in a non-military zone. The Collectors aren't revered as a threatening military force. They are revered as having advanced technology. Two very different things. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

The main plot stuff does feel more like an expansion than anything, considering just how few main plot missions there actually are. If not for things like recruitment, loyalty and the other assorted side missions, you'd basically have the Mass Effect equivalent of Dragon Age: Awakenings.

 

And unfortunately, the SM mechanic pretty much renders the entire character expansions and characterization non-functional in ME3. You spend a whole game building up your team, and due to the mechanic, they're all cast aside (though granted, there were other reasons for this as well) in ME3 for your 'true' team.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

The timescales say otherwise. That's all. What information could they get anyway, that could be used to win the war anyway? Weapon strength can be determined by using data from the Battle of the Citadel, so can speed, and everything else. And it's not like the Collector base is going to have numbers on shield strength. 

It doesn't equate that. I never said that it did. But she did say "higher ranking members of my government." That implies that she is part of the Asari government, no? Well, time to shoot off Chekov's Gun. Why did they make the Council idiots? To justify everything with Cerberus. Everything Cerberus is in ME2 is used to justify how they are in ME3. And Cerberus in ME3 is a huge ****** problem, at least to almost everyone but you. In this way, disregarding the Council, and everything involving the Spectres, set up the shitshow that is Cerberus in ME3. 

Of course a whole lot of the problems are ME3s own fault. But ME2 set the stage. 

Then how long was it until the Reapers came? 6 months, 8 months, 10 months? At most it's a year, but that's stretching it whole lot . Even with 12 months, it is still unlikely that the Reaper is finished. So, it can't be used as Sovereign 2.0. The Reapers would already be there by the time the Reapers came. 

We have nothing to go off for it's combat capabilities? Was the Collector cruiser NOT destroyed in two shots by the Thanix? Is the Normandy NOT stated to have a cruiser's firepower with the Thanix installed? Also, it was not a "Turian scouting flotilla." It was a Turian patrol. And judging by what is shown on screen, the patrol is a single, weak frigate. Which isn't that unbelieveable, it's a patrol in a non-military zone. The Collectors aren't revered as a threatening military force. They are revered as having advanced technology. Two very different things. 

 

The timescales were also implemented as an afterthought well after ME2's release. In fact, the tweet confirming that the Reapers were moving towards the Galaxy since the end of ME1 wasn't made until almost a year and a half after ME2's release. As for information, the Collector base might not have information on Reaper combat capabilities, but it is going to have information on the Reapers structure, design, purpose, methods, and motivation. And it is also going to be a trove of technology, whether you destroy it or not. That's very useful and important information to have. Understanding your enemy is never a weakness you know.

 

That seems like a phrase that she's using to refer to herself as an Asari. I'd say the same thing as an American. 'My government' doesn't necessarily mean that she is a member of the government, simply that she's referring to her government as an Asari. I'd also dispute your statements regarding Cerberus, given how different they are in their portrayals from ME2 to ME3.

 

Again, I disagree. ME3 is entirely responsible for most of its own problems.

 

Well, you're using supposition for the time-scales. It's a claim to ignorance, nothing more. We really can't say much on the human reaper, given that we aren't given very much clear information about it.

 

Technically, no we don't. And you're using a highly advanced, experimental weapon based off of Reaper tech that is completely unlike anything ever fielded by the current galactic race as comparable to the standard abilities of other, less expensive, less advanced, and more in-line warships. That's really not the case. You're using claims about its weapons to justify that 'oh if a frigate (that just so happens to be much larger than a standard frigate that's also equipped with the most advanced power-system, stealth technology, weapons-system, engine-system, barrier-system, and computer-system in the galaxy, but still, a frigate nonetheless) can take out the Collector ship, then a standard cruiser (that has none of those advancements or capabilities) can take it out as well!' That's not a very logical conclusion, is it. So you're going to have to revise your argument or concede your point here. And yes, you can clearly see the wreckage of more than one ship in the debris field outside the Collector Cruiser. Not to mention, patrol vessels are typically rather well-armed. They aren't going to be some light, weak picket ships, which would imply that there is a nearby fleet that could easily pounce since a picket ship's purpose is to scout the perimeter of a certain distance from a main fleet. A patrol vessel is a much more autonomous vessel that independently patrols open space on its own or in small groups and is capable of much more sustained action. And in deep space, there are always threats. Namely pirates, raiders, outlaws, and other rogue groups that could likely attack, so the argument that because they aren't patrolling a war-zone does means that they are not prepared for war is bunk. And lastly, advanced technology tends to go hand in hand with an advanced military. And seeing as the Collectors use Reaper technology (Cerberus scientists don't know much about the mechanism behind their weapons for example) and have a very confrontational nature designed by the Reapers (As well as from codex statements), I'd say that yes, they do have a very powerful military capability.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Again, I disagree completely. I'd say that it's a fine sequel to ME1. ME3 not following it is not ME2's fault. I don't believe in the purpose of retroactive blaming for everything that went wrong.

 

Were there flaws? Of course. But was it the story/narrative breaking that limited the progression and acceptable possibility for ME3? No, I don't think it was at all.

 

And usually I'd invite the person I'm conversing with to say their piece here (ie: to tell me what ME2 actually had for ME3 to follow up on to bring the overarching plot to a close) on the off-chance anyone found something very important that I didnt see myself, but I am past the point of giving ME2 the benefit of the doubt. Countless times it's been defended but never have I seen any of its proponents point to any specific development in that story that could logically lead to the problem of the plot being solved. That's because there is none. If there were, the writers would have built off of it (they would know about it since it would stand to reason that they put it there). Since there wasn't one, they contrived some convenient superweapon.

 

... Unless the plan was for ME3 to be a tragedy where the Reapers mop the floor with the galaxy despite the hero's best efforts. Then ME2 did its job (by not doing anything).

 

Closest thing ME2 had to that necessary development was the Collector Base tech, but that event was made irrelevant once we were given the decision to not save it.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The timescales were also implemented as an afterthought well after ME2's release. In fact, the tweet confirming that the Reapers were moving towards the Galaxy since the end of ME1 wasn't made until almost a year and a half after ME2's release. As for information, the Collector base might not have information on Reaper combat capabilities, but it is going to have information on the Reapers structure, design, purpose, methods, and motivation. And it is also going to be a trove of technology, whether you destroy it or not. That's very useful and important information to have. Understanding your enemy is never a weakness you know.

 

That seems like a phrase that she's using to refer to herself as an Asari. I'd say the same thing as an American. 'My government' doesn't necessarily mean that she is a member of the government, simply that she's referring to her government as an Asari. I'd also dispute your statements regarding Cerberus, given how different they are in their portrayals from ME2 to ME3.

 

Again, I disagree. ME3 is entirely responsible for most of its own problems.

 

Well, you're using supposition for the time-scales. It's a claim to ignorance, nothing more. We really can't say much on the human reaper, given that we aren't given very much clear information about it.

 

Technically, no we don't. And you're using a highly advanced, experimental weapon based off of Reaper tech that is completely unlike anything ever fielded by the current galactic race as comparable to the standard abilities of other, less expensive, less advanced, and more in-line warships. That's really not the case. You're using claims about its weapons to justify that 'oh if a frigate (that just so happens to be much larger than a standard frigate that's also equipped with the most advanced power-system, stealth technology, weapons-system, engine-system, barrier-system, and computer-system in the galaxy, but still, a frigate nonetheless) can take out the Collector ship, then a standard cruiser (that has none of those advancements or capabilities) can take it out as well!' That's not a very logical conclusion, is it. So you're going to have to revise your argument or concede your point here. And yes, you can clearly see the wreckage of more than one ship in the debris field outside the Collector Cruiser. Not to mention, patrol vessels are typically rather well-armed. They aren't going to be some light, weak picket ships, which would imply that there is a nearby fleet that could easily pounce since a picket ship's purpose is to scout the perimeter of a certain distance from a main fleet. A patrol vessel is a much more autonomous vessel that independently patrols open space on its own or in small groups and is capable of much more sustained action. And in deep space, there are always threats. Namely pirates, raiders, outlaws, and other rogue groups that could likely attack, so the argument that because they aren't patrolling a war-zone does means that they are not prepared for war is bunk. And lastly, advanced technology tends to go hand in hand with an advanced military. And seeing as the Collectors use Reaper technology (Cerberus scientists don't know much about the mechanism behind their weapons for example) and have a very confrontational nature designed by the Reapers (As well as from codex statements), I'd say that yes, they do have a very powerful military capability.

Structure is unimportant, design means the same thing as structure, purpose and motivation are the same thing, and any methods that aren't combat based don't mean anything. 

You actually say "my government"? That's a first. I've never heard anyone other person say that. Maybe our, but never my. Hmm. But you don't refute the Chekov's Gun? That the whole point of making the Council a bunch of idiots was to justify Cerberus? Well then. There you go. 

The Human reaper is 1/20 of the length of an actual Reaper, and way smaller. The Collectors have supposedly been doing their collection for two years, seeing as Cerberus felt the need to bring Shepard back to life. Even if the Collectors have been processing for one year, or six months, it'll still take decades to complete going at that rate. 

It doesn't ****** matter what the technology level of the Normandy is. It doesn't ****** matter. It's 1/4 the length of a cruiser, which matters a whole lot when dealing with spinal-mounted mass accelerators, The Normandy, with the Thanix upgrade, is explicitly stated to have the firepower of a cruiser. Does it not? Okay, let's go for a direct quote. 

 

 

The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates, including the Normandy SR-2, giving them firepower rivaling that of a cruiser.

It's simple math. X = X. If the firepower of a cruiser is capable of annihilating the Collector Cruiser in two shots, then a cruiser is capable of annihilating the Collector Cruiser in two shots. It's just simple math. 

In the actual cutscene there is wreckage of a single Turian ship. One. And it's small, likely a frigate in size. You're making assumptions without any evidence to back them up. 

Advanced military doesn't mean large, or good military. Kinda like, even if Jamaica had a US military technological level, it wouldn't be a threat to Mexico. 

 

[ZipZap2000]

@AlanC9 that's exactly what happened. I hadn't scanned enough planets and I killed the quarians (which still leaves you a few hundred pts short without DLC) I kept finding credits when I did scan, assumed I didn't need anymore credits and went for the ending. I'd also just had the rachni queen turn on me and kill half my scientists and I wasn't sure how long it would be till the Geth and Krogan did the same thing. The last thing i'd expected was to see shepard do in minutes what would have taken the reapers a full century. I avoid spoilers before I've played the game so I didn't know how important EMS was either.

 

As far as Tuchanka bomb I did that but didn't keep maelons data eve died. Rewrote the heretics so no QG peace talked to Kelly but didn't tell her to change her name she got shot in the head, didn't know Grissom had a trigger on it to kill everyone there. Talked to Cortez but didn't didn't convince him to go to the citadel.

[Farangbaa]

Rewrote the heretics so no QG peace

Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

[ZipZap2000]

My understanding is that it is. In any case I didn't get the dialogue option for peace and they both died.