Good point there KaiserShep -- I thought that was rediculously strange too.
YOU WOULD THINK -- that when the 3 of them where talking to Vigil on Ilos, at least ONE of the three would have enough sense to use their OmniTool to record the conversation to bring back.
Or record the conversation with Sovereign to show the council before going to Ilos.
1) Lack of Harbringer or a Reaper Lead
2) Kai Leng's underwhelming personality and poorly thought out boss battles; A Ninja from any time period would have better than Kai Leng as shown in ME3 and still be a much better ninja/Cerberus Phantom.
3) ME3 Cerberus StoryArch. It is a long list
4) Character Assassination; Yes I am including Shepard, Anderson, T.I.M. and others
5) StarBrat
6) Too Much Cerberus not enough Reapers or Collectors.
7) Not enough Sleeper Agents from other species
8) Not having all of the MP abilities abilities or passive for Shepard. True, No two Shepards are alike so why not have Shepard with a Krogan Warhammer. it would be nice to have Wrex or Wreav being a badass swinging the Krogan Warhammer like a boss.
1. The lack of facetime with a reaper did lessen the personal connection with the main enemy in ME3
2. Not as impressive as I previously imagined, Kai Leng's character was a big let down thinking we were going to go up against a "real" enemy who uses cunning and wit to get a win over Shepard instead of the game bending it's own rules.
3. Indeed!
4. I am not really happy with totally destroying Cerberus in ME3, I wish they could serve as a future antagonist for a sequel.
5. Never envision a child as the leader of the Reapers, make them look like play toys.
6. It does feel that way
7. Hmm...
8. I really wish engineer/sentinel Shepard could emit some sort of omni-tech shield.
Or record the conversation with Sovereign to show the council before going to Ilos.
If you had Ashley with you, she did, but comments that it wouldn't make any difference or something like that.
That's a copout for a hack writer. Do it well enough and you can still produce a story that's an enjoyable experience but it'll never stand up against one that can provide the same things and a coherent plot, and it only works up to a point anyway. Go too far and you break willing suspension of disbelief. Do that at an unimportant time and it'll be recovered, do it at a crucial one and you've broken your story.Bio plots generally can't stand up to analysis. The trick is to keep players from analyzing them.
This would be a lot more convincing if people hadn't swallowed ME1 and ME2.That's a copout for a hack writer. Do it well enough and you can still produce a story that's an enjoyable experience but it'll never stand up against one that can provide the same things and a coherent plot, and it only works up to a point anyway. Go too far and you break willing suspension of disbelief. Do that at an unimportant time and it'll be recovered, do it at a crucial one and you've broken your story.
When it comes to speculative fiction any plot is going to fray after too much analysis but it should take a little bit of digging to get to that stage, not something that occurs to you whilst you're playing.
If you had Ashley with you, she did, but comments that it wouldn't make any difference or something like that.
I don't recall ever hearing her say that.
Failed on both counts, then
Or record the conversation with Sovereign to show the council before going to Ilos.
A post Virmire conversation with Ashley explicitly states they did just that using cameras in their armor.
Oops 
A post Virmire conversation with Ashley explicitly states they did just that using cameras in their armor.
Oops
I'm due for another ME1 playthrough, so I will remember doing that. Like I said above, I don't recall her saying that.
The first part when I saw a cruiser flying and then it started going up and down, up and down. At last, it was just a little kid playing with a cruiser action figure. That's when I knew the Reapers were gonna send us to hell. Thanks, Ash, your words came true.
If you had Ashley with you, she did, but comments that it wouldn't make any difference or something like that.
shep: did anyone get that?
Ash: got it skipper.
Garrus: All right, Scoped and dropped!
Wrex: What?
Garrus: Well, you know... the reapers, we... uhh... got them in our sights.. and... *ahem*
Wrex: Uh-huh.
Garrus: Shut up.
Wrex: you shut up.
Garrus: You shut up.
shep: Both of you shut up.
Wrex: *smug*
Garrus: *annoyed*
shep: Okay, Ash. Let's hear it.
Ash: Right. *several moments of silence* Uhhh... you know what, skipper? I don't think the council will listen anyway. Stupid alien jerks, right? Pshh.
shep: Ash?
Ash: Skipper?
shep: You did record everything Sovereign said, right?
Ash: Oh yes. Yes yes yes... well, no.
shep: *facepalm*
Tali: Amateur.
Ash: Shut up.
Tali: You shut up.
shep: Both of you shut up.
Joker: Jenkins would have recorded it.
Ash: What did you say?
Joker: *ahem* nothing!
Ash: Shut up.
Joker: You shut up.
Ash: You-
shep: Everyone shut up.
Liara: Is this some kind of bizarre human cultural thing?
All: SHUT UP.
I'm due for another ME1 playthrough, so I will remember doing that. Like I said above, I don't recall her saying that.
You'll probably hate me for posting this, but it's the only one I can find with the appropriate scene:
https://www.youtube....ndMBkkiyA#t=208
You'll probably hate me for posting this, but it's the only one I can find with the appropriate scene:
Oh gosh, not that mike crackle again!
Queen was a term you used incidentally, but anyway I'll let you carry on, I have no interest in a back and forth with you so knock yourself out.
And seriously, a cup of tea and a custard cream. It's how we conquered the world.
I never called Miranda a queen, except maybe and 'ice queen'. Which is a trope used for a serious, somewhat humorless woman.
Bourbon and Tobacco. We pushed you back and now the world's ours.
I never called Miranda a queen, except maybe and 'ice queen'. Which is a trope used for a serious, somewhat humorless woman.
The way I headcanon Miranda's decision to sleep in the engine room is to mark her territory. She is a tsundere to a point. Especially to Tali and Jack, the two people she considered to be the greatest... threat to her and Shepard (even though Shepard had no interest in them whatsoever, they were/are both interested in my Shepard, and Miranda is letting them no who's queen.)
But whatever. Thanks for the trope explanation though; being a native English speaker I had no idea what the usage of 'ice Queen' was.
Anyway, back on topic, Shep being forced to work with Cerberus was certainly a 'wtf' moment, especially coming from someone who hunted them down in ME1. I kept waiting for the moment when She could go "**** this for a game of soldiers" and get back to being a Council SPECTRE and working for them.
But whatever. Thanks for the trope explanation though; being a native English speaker I had no idea what the usage of 'ice Queen' was.
Anyway, back on topic, Shep being forced to work with Cerberus was certainly a 'wtf' moment, especially coming from someone who hunted them down in ME1. I kept waiting for the moment when She could go "**** this for a game of soldiers" and get back to being a Council SPECTRE and working for them.
I'm sure you didn't. I'm sorry, was I going too fast for you? I can go slower if you like.
I disagree completely. With your assessment of Cerberus. At least you could play an anti-Cerberus Shepard. I couldn't play a Shepard that was at all sympathetic with Cerberus' motives, goals, or methods in ME3. I thought they were damned ingenious for what they did at Sanctuary, and I really wish we could have supported it. Instead, BW decided that they'd lessen the ability of a player to choose how they feel about their character and restrict dialogue.
What moment in the story just made you stop and say "wait... this can't be going where I think it's going" or even "what the hell just happened to the plot"?
for me, the first inkling that something was going wrong came in the very first mission to Mars when they began discussing the catalyst. I immediately thought, "No. There's no way they're going to try and introduce a random superweapon that's never been mentioned before in the series as the one solution to the Reaper threat." My second sinking feeling came right after that when they didn't even have the courtesy to make it a giant space bomb or cannon and instead had everyone saying, "oh yeah, this thing? We have absolutely no clue what it does, but lets pour all our resources into it instead of using them for something more obviously useful like for cranking out dreadnaughts and deep space colony and exploration ships." Seriously, for all anyone knew it could have been the Protheans attempt to build the galaxy's ultimate mosh pit and go out of existence with the largest rave ever.
I was able to ignore it for the sake of playing the game, but that moment right there kind of floored me at the time.
Or record the conversation with Sovereign to show the council before going to Ilos.
Pretty much this. I had issues with the quality of writing right from the very begging of ME3 but I didn't begin questioning the plot until I got to Mars and Liara started talking about discovering ( how convenient that timing was ) these schematics for this Prothean device that will magically stop the Reapers.
And then there was the fact that all this time and effort went into building the device and no one knew what it was or what it did but they were all so certain that it would end the war.
I disagree completely. With your assessment of Cerberus. At least you could play an anti-Cerberus Shepard. I couldn't play a Shepard that was at all sympathetic with Cerberus' motives, goals, or methods in ME3. I thought they were damned ingenious for what they did at Sanctuary, and I really wish we could have supported it. Instead, BW decided that they'd lessen the ability of a player to choose how they feel about their character and restrict dialogue.
The reason for that is that the developers simply never intended that Shepard would agree with Cerberus in Mass Effect 3, they certainly didn't think any players would agree them. After all, the writers put much effort into making Cerberus as morally abhorrent as possible to the point where even a the most hardcore renegade would refile them. Admittedly this point is largely overshadowed by the fact Cerberus are openly antagonistic Shepard and his/her allies.
Remember that Shepard was never intended to be a direct avatar of the player, he/she is an established character with their own goals and motives, the player can exert a certain amount of control over Shepard's actions but is ultimatly bound by the constraits of the narrative. Needless to say the degree of control given is highly inconsistent and the system falters on many occasions in Mass Effect 3 almost constantly.
The reason for that is that the developers simply never intended that Shepard would agree with Cerberus in Mass Effect 3, they certainly didn't think any players would agree them. After all, the writers put much effort into making Cerberus as morally abhorrent as possible to the point where even a the most hardcore renegade would refile them. Admittedly this point is largely overshadowed by the fact Cerberus are openly antagonistic Shepard and his/her allies.
Remember that Shepard was never intended to be a direct avatar of the player, he/she is an established character with their own goals and motives, the player can exert a certain amount of control over Shepard's actions but is ultimatly bound by the constraits of the narrative. Needless to say the degree of control given is highly inconsistent and the system falters on many occasions in Mass Effect 3 almost constantly.
The first point is just plain sad writing on BW's part, considering that you can do things just as abhorrent or bad as Shepard if you so choose. It's just insulting to the player to treat them as tout the players having as much control as possible over their Shepard's idea's, opinions, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors, while then saying 'oh well, you weren't supposed to find that action good or bad or that group good or bad'.
The second point is untrue according to every single statement from most developers on the subject. Their statements were that 'the player would be given as much possible control over their individual Shepard's personality, looks, psychology, attitude, behaviors, etc.' It was only in ME3 where this idea of player inflection was downplayed for the sake of making Shepard less of a brick and more of a character. I preferred him as a brick/canvas for me to make him into whatever type of person I wanted him to be instead of some generic action hero in a black and white universe. BW themselves said that you'd be able to play as a Shepard who is overall sympathetic to Cerberus' views and methods while opposing them out of necessity. They said that it would be possible to play an anti-alliance Shepard (which was a complete lie).
As jtav said once, the game spends way too much time insulting you by telling what to think and how to think, and to make sure you think or feel the way the writers want you too. And to make sure that you do so, they don't give you a choice to feel any differently by removing said opinions from the game. I mean, it's an RPG. Why call it an RPG if they skimp on the RP aspect of the game? You aren't allowed to be callous and indifferent over the VS death and tell the crew that they deserved it and don't deserve pity or sadness. You aren't allowed to feel indifference over the fate of Thessia in the game. The game really doesn't let you play as a psychopath consistently.
Gotta agree here. It reminds me of the chat with the brat where AutoShepard capitulates when told that the cycle would repeat itself if you choose Destroy. See also ME1 talks with Wrex and Tali, stumbling ignorantly around both species' respective histories and engaging in general dickery.The first point is just plain sad writing on BW's part, considering that you can do things just as abhorrent or bad as Shepard if you so choose. It's just insulting to the player to treat them as tout the players having as much control as possible over their Shepard's idea's, opinions, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors, while then saying 'oh well, you weren't supposed to find that action good or bad or that group good or bad'.
The second point is untrue according to every single statement from most developers on the subject. Their statements were that 'the player would be given as much possible control over their individual Shepard's personality, looks, psychology, attitude, behaviors, etc.' It was only in ME3 where this idea of player inflection was downplayed for the sake of making Shepard less of a brick and more of a character. I preferred him as a brick/canvas for me to make him into whatever type of person I wanted him to be instead of some generic action hero in a black and white universe. BW themselves said that you'd be able to play as a Shepard who is overall sympathetic to Cerberus' views and methods while opposing them out of necessity. They said that it would be possible to play an anti-alliance Shepard (which was a complete lie).
By putting words in the PC's mouth, they aren't building a case for that stance; all they've done is driven a wedge between the player and the character who is supposed to be their avatar. Same goes for putting an obvious strawman version of the argument the player would want to make in the PC's mouth (You don't side with X? You must be racist).As jtav said once, the game spends way too much time insulting you by telling what to think and how to think, and to make sure you think or feel the way the writers want you too. And to make sure that you do so, they don't give you a choice to feel any differently by removing said opinions from the game. I mean, it's an RPG. Why call it an RPG if they skimp on the RP aspect of the game?
And the funny thing is that it could have only strengthened the story to give the player freer reign. Shep was pro-Cerberus in 2? That could lead to some good conversations about how Shep feels now. And if Control is in fact one of your choices, it's not a good idea to tell me every chance you get how bad the idea is.
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