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Solo Play

Débuté par Hamztein , août 15 2014 07:41

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38 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Dominus
Posté 19 août 2014 - 03:37

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I was arguing that the action-oriented player is not necessarily opposed to a party game, but that they would be opposed to losing control.

It's the reason I favor party-based games like Seiken Densetzu or Final Fantasy, and avoid those that feel more like An Armchair General than actually being a character. Switching doesn't bug me as much, but the feeling is off when I'm moving them around like chess pieces in a more story-centric video game.

As far as making it easier for solo people, I'd suspect they're aware of that to an extent. DA2's launch had a lot of the issues you mentioned brought up.
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#27
Sylvius the Mad
Posté 19 août 2014 - 04:35

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I'm sorry. When I said "you," I meant the action-oriented player. I was arguing that the action-oriented player is not necessarily opposed to a party game, but that they would be opposed to losing control. I was arguing from their point of view, not talking about YOU in particular.

 

To clarify: "The action oriented player would prefer direct character control (third party camera), but preferring action controls is not related to playing without a party. One might argue that playing with a party actually enhances action combat, because it allows you to fluidly switch between three different types of action combat--Mage/Rogue?Warrior (and really, even more, because it has specializations)."

 

I was disputing your implication that solo play, as defined by the OP as playing without a party, was tied to "wanting to play with action controls."

There was no such implication.  You're misinterpreting a conditional as a biconditional.

 

I think action play, in my case, lends itself to solo play.  I don't think the camera mode matters.  I don't think the third-person camera would be mandatory - in fact, I still might not like that as much as the tactical view.  But if I didn't get to give orders while paused, I wouldn't want there to to be a party.

 

I do think action play discourages full use of the party. In fact, I would argue that action play inhibits full use of the party, as there will necessarily be characters who are, as time passes, acting without your direct control.

 

But the camera mode should be irrelevant.


#28
Guest_L42_*
Posté 19 août 2014 - 05:16

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There was no such implication.  You're misinterpreting a conditional as a biconditional.

 

I think action play, in my case, lends itself to solo play.  I don't think the camera mode matters.  I don't think the third-person camera would be mandatory - in fact, I still might not like that as much as the tactical view.  But if I didn't get to give orders while paused, I wouldn't want there to to be a party.

 

I do think action play discourages full use of the party. In fact, I would argue that action play inhibits full use of the party, as there will necessarily be characters who are, as time passes, acting without your direct control.

 

But the camera mode should be irrelevant.

i'm not so sure about that. I'm trying to imagine if anyone could beat a game like Baldurs gate 2 with the use of a different camera than the one that BG2 used (on any difficulty level). If you don't see everything that's going around you how can you react if you want to have full control over your party?

 

edit: and here we go again camera/difficulty, is there a relation? :blink:


#29
xmojo1
Posté 19 août 2014 - 10:31

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Party play is not just because most combat encounters are geared for it. If DA:O and DA2 are anything to go by, dialogue options and possibly game direction and quest rewards are affected by having certain characters in your party at the time of dialogue initiation. Going solo will mean you will miss out on some content such as personal character quests, romance and who knows what else.


#30
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 20 août 2014 - 03:23

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There was no such implication.  You're misinterpreting a conditional as a biconditional.
 
I think action play, in my case, lends itself to solo play.  I don't think the camera mode matters.  I don't think the third-person camera would be mandatory - in fact, I still might not like that as much as the tactical view.  But if I didn't get to give orders while paused, I wouldn't want there to to be a party.
 
I do think action play discourages full use of the party. In fact, I would argue that action play inhibits full use of the party, as there will necessarily be characters who are, as time passes, acting without your direct control.
 
But the camera mode should be irrelevant.

 
...I was under the impression (again it would appear) that your statement about solo play and action play was a declarative, an abstract statement defining action play and solo play. I didn't realize you were talking about yourself in particular (making a subjective quantification).
 
Though for the sake of the argument, 3rd person camera is much closer to the action and potentially allows one to recognize an enemy action (and thus make a counter-action) quicker than the iso-cam.

 

I personally don't place any real value on a party or lack of a party in relation to action play (outside of the fact that they're generally incompetent). And as far as "full use of the party," if "full use of the party" means that the player must control them, then A) you're right, and B. the tactics/AI system was abysmally designed. A game like Final Fantasy XIII (I recognize you'll not have played it, but it's simply a reference) is designed around non-controllable party members than actually have excellent AI.
 

i'm not so sure about that. I'm trying to imagine if anyone could beat a game like Baldurs gate 2 with the use of a different camera than the one that BG2 used (on any difficulty level). If you don't see everything that's going around you how can you react if you want to have full control over your party?
 
edit: and here we go again camera/difficulty, is there a relation? :blink:

 
Is it possible to pause literally every second (heck, every fourth of a second) in BG2?
 
If so, then the game can be paused, the camera rotated, and threats dealt with.
 
Though from your description, it sounds like encounters in BG were terribly designed where enemies would spawn behind you as well as in front of you. Is that true? Because, amusingly, in DA ][ I could play most of the game (most definitely if playing as a mage) focusing on threats at the edge of their little "circle," and thus keep all enemies in sight.
 

Oh no, what I mean is as it stands nightmare has been fun. I'm a bit fuzzy in my definition of fun, and obviously it's subjective, but call it sufficiently challenging that I will be using reload, but not so hard that I'm slaving over a spreadsheet to min max my build/gear. I'm just not sure how you maintain a challenge for a decent group while keeping things solo friendly. I suppose level based encounters will help, you can always head in when you've got a couple of levels on the mobs. I don't know if that applies to all encounters though.


Well that challenge is maintained by the existence of such options as Nightmare. They can design Nightmare for total control of a full party, and not really worry about solo-ers complaining about difficulty--it's Nightmare, after all.


#31
Dominus
Posté 20 août 2014 - 03:40

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Is it possible to pause literally every second (heck, every fourth of a second) in BG2? If so, then the game can be paused, the camera rotated, and threats dealt with.

As far as I remember, Yep. For BG2, camera rotation wasn't possible. Neverwinter Nights and beyond came with the option.

Though for the sake of the argument, 3rd person camera is much closer to the action and potentially allows one to recognize an enemy action (and thus make a counter-action) quicker than the iso-cam.

For as long as Pause-And-Play is involved, the 3rd-Person Camera Control doesn't hold a significant advantage over Isometric in terms of suceeding in combat. If you're trying to speed through a battle in real-time only, perhaps. You can still see a great deal from iso, enemy actions included.

#32
AlanC9
Posté 20 août 2014 - 07:10

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Well, in BG2 camera rotation wouldn't have been all that useful anyway, since it wasn't 3D.

#33
Sylvius the Mad
Posté 20 août 2014 - 01:45

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Though from your description, it sounds like encounters in BG were terribly designed where enemies would spawn behind you as well as in front of you. Is that true? Because, amusingly, in DA ][ I could play most of the game (most definitely if playing as a mage) focusing on threats at the edge of their little "circle," and thus keep all enemies in sight.

Enemies in BG were pre-placed. You encountered them as the fog of war retreated past their locations.

Except when you were ambushed while resting or traveling between areas.

#34
Sylvius the Mad
Posté 20 août 2014 - 01:47

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Well, in BG2 camera rotation wouldn't have been all that useful anyway, since it wasn't 3D.

But it would have had to be for a camera other than an isometric one to work.

He was addressing a hypothetical BG2 without the isometric cam.

#35
Elhanan
Posté 20 août 2014 - 02:14

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For me, with the exception of some Bioware games, I also prefer to solo. With the latter NWN1, DA and ME series, the dialogue and above standard NPC AI and pathing made party play more enjoyable. For these games, party play is recommended, and I solo only after exploring most of the dialogue.

I did enjoy solo runs of DAO, but those were done ages after release and several varied Wardens. As this is not the intent of the game, I do not expect support for it, but it is great to have the option.

#36
Guest_L42_*
Posté 21 août 2014 - 11:43

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i realize this is not about solo play anymore, so i apologize to Hamztein, the thread-starter for this.

If in Inquisition your enemies could move at the same pace or even faster than you (you can run, but they can run also) and if they can regenerate health/mana like you can do and if they can level-drain you to 0 with 3 hits and if it would be game-over when your main char dies in battle and thus if retreating/fleeing is not an option (like in Baldurs gate 2) i would be on even terms with the enemy thus i would be forced to control my party members. I would have to move and position at least some of my chars very often and that would require an isometric during the action (not talking about the pause mode).

It's just how i think about this ...


#37
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 22 août 2014 - 04:09

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i realize this is not about solo play anymore, so i apologize to Hamztein, the thread-starter for this.

If in Inquisition your enemies could move at the same pace or even faster than you (you can run, but they can run also) and if they can regenerate health/mana like you can do and if they can level-drain you to 0 with 3 hits and if it would be game-over when your main char dies in battle and thus if retreating/fleeing is not an option (like in Baldurs gate 2) i would be on even terms with the enemy thus i would be forced to control my party members. I would have to move and position at least some of my chars very often and that would require an isometric during the action (not talking about the pause mode).

It's just how i think about this ...

 

How would that require an isometric camera? Do you mean if you DON'T have a pause option?

 

If so, I would say that it (the iso-cam) makes it like 10 times easier, but of course it's still not necessary (you can switch to those characters, click a new location, then back).

 

Even then, it sounds like you're trying to create a completely different game ( no pause, main character dies, game over? This isn't FF XIII) to justify the necessity of the iso-cam. It isn't a necessity, it never will be, and it doesn't need to be.

 

It doesn't need to be necessary to be a good option, and one Bioware "should" include.

 

Edit: I too apologize to the OP. Sorry for derailing, but I think this is an important point.


#38
Gtdef
Posté 22 août 2014 - 06:05

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The main reason I don't want active solo support is because none of the previous games offered any real challenge on highest difficulty other than a few gimmick fights, so having them focusing on a different playstyle would do more good than bad for me.

 

Also the truth is that in both previous games, soloing was perfectly viable on highest difficulty but it involved a process and not everyone could or wanted to do it.


#39
Icefalcon
Posté 22 août 2014 - 05:16

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Just when you thought you're really alone this time around (you locked the other chars away in the hideout and stared down anyone who had ambitions joining your party), an Imoen doppelganger (tougher version of Imoen) will tap your shoulder from behind wearing a shirt that reads 'gotcha! signed david gaider' and say "hi, i'm the inquisitor's - that would be you - little sis' and i will accompany you!" :)

 

Now that brought back some very old memories!


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