134 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr.Fumbles]

Eh. I am rather apathetic to that type of stuff. That is the way the world works, so people might as well get used to it. Why worry about something when there is you can do to fix it.

[Tarek]

well even the brutality of Israel (which i tasted many times) does not make me hate them, in fact i kinda pity them I feel sorry for every human being that lives in hate or paranoia or anger

 

its one thing to fight man to man gun to gun..etc I can even understand it but to hurt unarmed people to hurt NICE people in the name of religion or ideology or whatever....
 

why do i feel like a minority?!! is is so unnatural to accept others?! gay, black, purple, christian, jewesih...etc why do we need to hate people for being something?!

 

as long as they don't harm others, why should we even feel anything but respect?!

 

 

... I know.. the rly horrible people are extremely few in numbers.. in fact I think 99% of the world's population are decent good folks

[mybudgee]

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Mahatma Gandhi

 

(This means do some charity work once in a while instead of posting on the internet or texting people when the world seems cruel. Which it is)

[Lady Mortho]

I agree with you. Hurting someone bad but killing is out of order. I'm a follower of Aphrodite and all I want is peace and love.

[Nukekitten]

as long as they don't harm others, why should we even feel anything but respect?!

Because they have something you want,
Because they're perceived as a threat or to have done some harm even if they haven't,
Because they're in the way,
Because someone else who you perceive in some unfortunate way values them,
Because it's good sport and you've never had much respect for life,
Because at some point in the past it was approved of to kill this other group and that's what they grew up with....

Any of the above, all of the above, more besides. It's not particularly hard to guess, in the general sense, at some of the reasons why someone might feel like someone else should be dead.

[Eternal Phoenix]

The news is always bad news so don't listen to it. It's not like you need to read newspapers or listen to news to function in the real world as half of it is bullshit and the other half is always bad news.

[Johnnie Walker]

Life is just a dark, sucking, vortex of torment and desperation, filled with pithy moments of false hope and empty elation, all the while ripping you inevitably closer to final, absolute and unceasing death.

[Steelcan]

I agree with you. Hurting someone bad but killing is out of order. I'm a follower of Aphrodite and all I want is peace and love.

but have you sacrificed any goats or bulls recently?

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Having been in combat myself, and shot (and likely killed) people, and called hellfire from ass and air on them, I can say with 100% certainty that I have a woody for it. 

 

Killing is an act, no more right or wrong than taking a crap. While I don't recommend or approve of senseless violence, I'm not morally opposed to it.

 

Besides, I can't help but laugh uncontrollably at the memory of some old Taliban-fart lobbing mortars at us, then misfiring and blowing himself up. The charred gore over the steppe looked like a christmas tree.

[bEVEsthda]

Because they have something you want,
Because they're perceived as a threat or to have done some harm even if they haven't,
Because they're in the way,
Because someone else who you perceive in some unfortunate way values them,
Because it's good sport and you've never had much respect for life,
Because at some point in the past it was approved of to kill this other group and that's what they grew up with....

Any of the above, all of the above, more besides. It's not particularly hard to guess, in the general sense, at some of the reasons why someone might feel like someone else should be dead.

 

It's what we get as soon as there is not a strong state guarding property, upholding peace, and providing a level playing field.

 

It was the human condition all over the world, before the empires of China and Persia. Any village/group ganging up and attacking, plundering, raping, murdering and enslaving any other village at any time they figured they could do it successfully.

 

And without the state, that's what we'll have again. In fact we have it, already, sort of, just look at the gang culture.

 

Same with Iraq and Syria. The currently weak regimes make for conditions which islamists, from the entire world, can exploit to do their thing. And of course, they also exploit the fact that the rest of us really don't want to be bothered. But as Churchill once said, "The war, that they will get anyway." In the end.

[Ridwan]

It's funny reading all these apathetic answers, but if someone messed with a video game, you can be sure gamers will rise. Lol.

[Lady Mortho]

but have you sacrificed any goats or bulls recently?

Yes I have! But not to Athena, I sacrifice my body for Aphrodite.

[Aurawolf]

well even the brutality of Israel (which i tasted many times) does not make me hate them, in fact i kinda pity them I feel sorry for every human being that lives in hate or paranoia or anger

 

its one thing to fight man to man gun to gun..etc I can even understand it but to hurt unarmed people to hurt NICE people in the name of religion or ideology or whatever....
 

why do i feel like a minority?!! is is so unnatural to accept others?! gay, black, purple, christian, jewesih...etc why do we need to hate people for being something?!

 

as long as they don't harm others, why should we even feel anything but respect?!

 

 

... I know.. the rly horrible people are extremely few in numbers.. in fact I think 99% of the world's population are decent good folks

Your not crazy or alone, in fact they have done research into this, it is agianst human nature to kill another person. The military has had to work hard to get people to become killers (not judging here just stating fact) I remember hearing somewhere back in WWII the solders had an 80% miss rate. Not because the weapons were inaccurate but because people were shoting not trying to kill people. The military has worked since then to change that of course but here is an interesting read on it. http://www.killology...ned_killing.htm

[Dr.Fumbles]

Interesting read. So it's really over the past 60 years we have become professional killers.

[Nukekitten]

It's what we get as soon as there is not a strong state guarding property, upholding peace, and providing a level playing field.
 
It was the human condition all over the world, before the empires of China and Persia. Any village/group ganging up and attacking, plundering, raping, murdering and enslaving any other village at any time they figured they could do it successfully.
 
And without the state, that's what we'll have again. In fact we have it, already, sort of, just look at the gang culture.
 
Same with Iraq and Syria. The currently weak regimes make for conditions which islamists, from the entire world, can exploit to do their thing. And of course, they also exploit the fact that the rest of us really don't want to be bothered. But as Churchill once said, "The war, that they will get anyway." In the end.

Ah, well, if we're going to wool gather on that point -

Disorder seems, broadly speaking, what you get when someone's self-perceived investment in order is outweighed by their self-perceived advantage in violating that order. A strong state seems part of an investment in order. However, it would also be far from the whole story; the economic, social and political environment in which a conflict is structured, along with the acceptable norms that a person holds to in respect to them, would also have a great effect. When people don't perceive that they have an acceptable future within the system, it doesn't matter too much how severe the penalties are for going outside it.

That seems to me to be why we have gang culture. You have a group of young people for who society doesn't offer very much at all:

- They're probably never going to be anything more than a store worker,
- They may never have had many positive relationships,
- They quite possibly get blacklisted even further early on in their lives for some small crime
- For who a fair bit of the social approval and economic reward is on the side of thuggery
- For who there may be very little support to escape the situation

You can't just threaten people like that into conformity. What are you going to sentence them to that's going to be worse than working in MickeyD's for twenty years? Heck, you sentenced me to a lifetime of MickeyD work I'd be out there doing anything else I could to get money and have a bit of fun. I like to think I'm a nice enough girl but I'm not that nice.

On a slightly more abstract level, it may be why we have Iraq and Syria as Problems. The culture there is, and has been for hundreds of years, built around religious and tribal values - often within situations where the cultural momentum is going to be strongly on the side of violent solutions to any disagreement. It makes no sense to attempt a military solution that does not take account of and address the alteration of those values.

But the government seems utterly unwilling to distinguish those fights that are:

A ) Winnable at an acceptable cost and
B ) Matter to ensuring a global security environment in which broadly western values of liberalist democracy, and the economic system they ultimately support, can continue.

From those which do not have those qualities. Foreign policy for the last twenty years, under the above interpretation, would have largely taken the form of a half-blind drunk man who, with the help of his, 'friends,' has come to the conclusion that swinging at everyone who looks at him funny is a bright idea.

If you're going to go with the idea that a strong state is to be the sole guardian of order, then one perhaps needs to think in a horrifyingly cold-blooded way about it. In the sense that you start getting out the protractors and drawing big red circles around all the places people who disagree with you live. Otherwise, society has to flex a bit on certain differing points of value.

Even if you somehow had the power to succeed in the former approach, I don't think that the society so protected would be worth living in, or that it would be able to evolve to meet the changing demands of technology and values which are so often revealed to us by the presence of disorder.

Which I suppose is all a long way of saying that a central form of authority is necessary but not sufficient - and the question of how strong a government must be in terms of force and its willingness to use it relates strongly to how worthwhile a life within that society is going to be for someone who deviates from the values of the rulers. I've long held, on the basis of the above, that if we take government forms to be analogous to different technologies, then a rough proxy for the development level of a form of government at a given time can, at least theoretically, be seen by taking the incidence of violence per-capita and plotting it against the spread of beliefs within that society.

Ho hum

[ruggly]

Yeah let's be apathetic and watch pictures of cats, lololol.

 

It works for me.

[Cyonan]

Your not crazy or alone, in fact they have done research into this, it is agianst human nature to kill another person. The military has had to work hard to get people to become killers (not judging here just stating fact) I remember hearing somewhere back in WWII the solders had an 80% miss rate. Not because the weapons were inaccurate but because people were shoting not trying to kill people. The military has worked since then to change that of course but here is an interesting read on it. http://www.killology...ned_killing.htm

 

There's actually a good amount of debate to be had about if killing is Human nature or not. Modern "western" society enjoys telling us that it's wrong to the point that many of us believe that and go our entire lives without killing anybody(meaning that the military now needs to undo that in order to have effective soldiers), but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not Human nature to kill.

 

In order to see what Human nature is, you have to try to take society out of the equation as best as you can and see what Humans would do when left to their own devices.

 

Our current understanding of pre-civilization Humans suggests that while we didn't really fight in wars or anything, groups of people did often raid other groups in the hopes of getting food and women. This was before most of us figuring out that settling in once place and growing our own food worked amazingly well, so both people and food could be scarce and both are needed in order to keep your genetic line going which it is Human nature to want to do so. Plus much of the food that we did eat was animals that we had to fight and kill before we could eat in the first place. Being good at killing meant being good at hunting for food.

 

I'd make the argument that while we may not necessarily be killers, we definitely are an aggressive species which very often does lead to killing and once killing starts it's fairly hard to stop.

 

On top of that, many of the people in a place like the Middle East are being taught by their society since a young age that they should hate these people and that killing them is not a bad thing. Fighting both society and potentially Human nature at the same time is an extremely difficult battle to win.

 

Not that I want to say that the battle isn't worth fighting, but it's not really one you should go in expecting to be able to win or even make much of a dent in.

[ObserverStatus]

It's funny reading all these apathetic answers, but if someone messed with a video game, you can be sure gamers will rise. Lol.

It's only natural. With all the terrible things they do to each other, it's easy for people living so far away to imagine that the Israelis and the Palestinians deserve each other, but no gamer who pre-ordered Aliens: Colonial Marines thinks that they got what they deserved from that.

 

As for the OP, if you haven't already, then I would suggest that you cancel your cable subscription. You'll be happier without access to networks with 24 hour news cycles, most of what they say is crap anyway.

[mybudgee]

It's not "Human Nature" to kill, but predatory nature. We do have the capacity for pointy canine teeth & binocular vision after all... 

(Also those of us who still have an appendix can digest meat much more efficiently)

[Sigma Tauri]

Also those of us who still have an appendix can digest meat much more efficiently

 

Never heard of that. It doesn't sound true. Trypsin, chemotrypsin, carboxypeptidase, and lipase are digested in the first section of the small bowel because of the pancreas. The appendix is a vestigial organ. All it's good for is causing appendicitis and subsequent septic peritonitis.

[metatheurgist]

Unfortunately that's just how things are. We're an aggressive species as a whole, and that very often leads to killing.

I'm not so sure about that. I think only a small proportion are like that but they drag the rest of us into it. I think the problem is that the peaceful portion lets it happen. Might sound counter-intuitive but I think it's time peaceful people took back violence and used it for good. Aggressive people have a monopoly on violence and monopolies are always bad.

[The Poster]

I used to want the world to be a better place. I've always wanted people to accept people for who they were and not hurt them. There's just too many people and conflicting ideologies for that to happen. All I can do is just not inflict harm on others and love the people around me the best that I can. It's not so bad if you think of the world as a "one person at a time" thing rather than a "fix everything at once" thing.

[giveamanafish...]

Just don't watch/read it then. I stopped paying attention to the news because it just made me mad at the news and very little else.

Please don't vote.

 

 

It's only going to get worse as more people come into conflict over increasingly scarce resources

 

 

I sense a business plan in this

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Economists will tell you that the most important resource in any situation is human ingenuity and the effective application of human effort and labour. This requires peace (or if you want to go the Canadian way: Peace , Order and Good Government. It's in our constitution). Media and NGOs also important. The keystone is individuals who refuse to accept cheap and easy answers in trying to make sense of complex situations (you may have already failed us here).

[Vroom Vroom]

You can't have the good without the bad, conversely you can't have the bad without the good. Just remember that there are good things and people out there that you aren't seeing happen/do their work. The media likes to bring the negative into the light and leave out the positive because it get them more views.

 

Be glad that you can feel, embrace it, let it carry you to inspiration, but don't let it bog you down. 

 

*hugs*