237 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I don't see much of a difference between Leliana completing a mission to Navarra in four hours or four minutes when it comes to immersion.

I mean, if I send Leliana out, I go to a cave, clear it, and then return to Skyhold and she's there, Leliana has still managed to travel faster than anyone sensibly could. Even if it took the PC a week to clear out that cave, Leliana should be gone for several months.

Both of these require you to headcanon the time it actually took for her to do it. One of these is more convenient to people who don't have a ton of time to play the game.

[Rawgrim]

I don't see much of a difference between Leliana completing a mission to Navarra in four hours or four minutes when it comes to immersion.

I mean, if I send Lelian out, go to a cave, clear it, and then return to Skyhold and she's there, Leliana has still managed to travel faster than anyone sensibly could. Even if it took the PC a week to clear out that cave, Leliana should be gone for several months.

Both of these require you to headcanon the time it actually took for her to do it. One of these is more convenient to people who don't have a ton of time to play the game.

 

 

True. But a simple "rest for x amount of hours" feature would solve this even easier, no?

[Deflagratio]

Even from that standpoint it doesn't work though. I spent a year doing a DnD play-through with four other people where i was the only rogue.  We would have our weekly sessions where everybody sat together and did quests.  But by the end we would always go to an Inn or resting place.  Then in a SEPARATE session I would sit with the dungeon master and go through my rogue's nightly activities.  Sometimes what I did in the evening had huge negative ramifications for the team.  But it was still all legit.  They were sleep and I wasn't.  It's weird to me this idea that things should be static even if you're not the one doing them.  It's the exact opposite of a living breathing world.  

 

 

Well, the game isn't acknowledging time passing in any other way other than the mission timer. If say, it was like Destiny of GTA:O where the game is on a live cycle than your rationale would hold a lot more water.

 

The internal logic of the game isn't consistent in this case as far as I know.

[omnitremere]

Well, the game isn't acknowledging time passing in any other way other than the mission timer. If say, it was like Destiny of GTA:O where the game is on a live cycle than your rationale would hold a lot more water.

 

The internal logic of the game isn't consistent in this case as far as I know.

 

How can we definitively say no other time is passing when there's no day/night cycle? If you sat in front of a cave for four hours the game wouldn't look any different.  

[Maria Caliban]

The internal logic of the game isn't consistent in this case as far as I know.

BioWare has, to my knowledge, never shown an interest in simulationist mechanics.

The internal logic of the game is not based around modeling reality but on player experience and the story they want to tell. Day and night, for example, are useful because some events (an undead attack) feel like night time experiences, not because BioWare is actually interested in creating a independent timeline in which a specific day takes X amount of time.

Rain and snow might have mechanical effects in combat, but they're mostly there to be pretty.

If Leliana is gone for four hours, it's because BioWare wants *the player* to experience four hours without Leliana.

[Apollexander]

Okay, so a programmer saw me talking in this thread and helped get me some info.

 

• It's completely offline, and just uses system clock.
• Some of the times I mentioned may not be accurate as they're being tweaked.  Really short stuff might not exist.
• Anything that opens up a new piece of content to be experienced in the game is done instantly
• Your advisors are still available to talk despite being "on mission." In context, this often makes sense because many of these missions describe a larger scale organizing event rather than, for example, Cullen stating "i'm definitely going to go there myself, specifically, to spend the next X hours talking to the person."
• Some of them are done to help with resource acquisition (Mike hinted at this), be it gold, crafting materials, and so forth.  There may be flavour differences between advisors, and some advisors may be better than others at certain tasks (usually shorter time, but hey, if Josie is on something else it may be worth sending Cullen instead even if it takes 30 minutes longer)
• Most interestingly (to me), is that some of them have story narratives to them.  Some missions are only available to certain PCs, and how you choose to proceed with the missions (or rather, how the advisor you send deals with it) can lead to different consequences/paths for these more story heavy missions.  Upon completion of these missions, a new mission will be unlocked if appropriate to continue that story arc.*

 

 

* Note that the last point I haven't seen in game, so hopefully I didn't recall that wrong.  i.e. safety language in case I made a mistake but I'm pretty certain I didn't.

I'm curious, Allan. If I start a timer mission and adjust the system time, will the mission be finished instantly?

[Sidney]

How much game time passes in the game world while we sleep, though?

 

 

Of course, that's a silly question, because the hours inthe mission times don't actually map onto any time passing in the DA game-world. As I understand the earlier answers, the world only advances by completing critical path missions.

 

Time is always awful in Bioware games and not just because of no day night cycle or real time...but just think about how messed up the world is (and how for all those for prattle about immersion the mental gymnastics they must do) when you are desperately trying to stop a Blight but you take time to deliver notes to widows? Or a giant machine is gonna help wipe out all life and you are driving out of your way to find a Turian Emblem and scan for rocks? I don't think you can worry about "how times passes" or claim this sort of thing is immersion breaking given a legion of other time related flaws in the game.

[Maria Caliban]

They're not flaws. They're design decisions.

There are games where you have X amount of time to finish or you lose. BioWare is not interested in making that sort of game. At most, there are specific events where time matters, like the attack on Crestwood.

[Sidney]

They're not flaws. They're design decisions.

There are games where you have X amount of time to finish or you lose. BioWare is not interested in making that sort of game. At most, there are specific events where time matters, like the attack on Crestwood.

 

Fair enough they are logical flaws in the world but the game is not designed as a race despite the narrative and in world logic saying very clearly it is.

[Ravensword]

Time is always awful in Bioware games and not just because of no day night cycle or real time...but just think about how messed up the world is (and how for all those for prattle about immersion the mental gymnastics they must do) when you are desperately trying to stop a Blight but you take time to deliver notes to widows? Or a giant machine is gonna help wipe out all life and you are driving out of your way to find a Turian Emblem and scan for rocks? I don't think you can worry about "how times passes" or claim this sort of thing is immersion breaking given a legion of other time related flaws in the game.

That's all good. When demons are pouring in from the Fade, I like to take the time to chill at the local tavern chatting it up w/ my fellow barflies. Afterwards, my Inquisitor would go around the city stealing people's torn trousers and whatnot.

[Shadowson]

If Leliana is gone for four hours, it's because BioWare wants *the player* to experience four hours without Leliana.

 

I've only picked this to use this as an example for a point not to have a go at the person. But anyways my point is.. Your advisors don't actually go on these missions as stated by allan, they appear to be supervisors sending out their respective troops/agents to do the mission while they organise events from the comfort of skyhold. Then when their agents get back from the field they in turn report back to you, all the while still being available to chat to, romance, go for drinks in the inn with or what not. 

 

Now if i have misinterpreted this from allans earlier post then i apologise and let the panic continue. ..  i mean the panic bit in jest.. don't kill me please

[AlanC9]

Even from that standpoint it doesn't work though. I spent a year doing a DnD play-through with four other people where i was the only rogue.  We would have our weekly sessions where everybody sat together and did quests.  But by the end we would always go to an Inn or resting place.  Then in a SEPARATE session I would sit with the dungeon master and go through my rogue's nightly activities.  Sometimes what I did in the evening had huge negative ramifications for the team.  But it was still all legit.  They were sleep and I wasn't.  It's weird to me this idea that things should be static even if you're not the one doing them.  It's the exact opposite of a living breathing world.  

 

 

Of course, they're not attempting to provide a living breathing world. Everything else will stop when the PC stops, apparently. Just this one thing won't.

[AlanC9]

Fair enough they are logical flaws in the world but the game is not designed as a race despite the narrative and in world logic saying very clearly it is.

 

 

Yep. Gameplay/story segregation. It's odd how many times we see CRPG systems that actively undermine both the narrative and the role-playing. But since I'm still here, obviously I can and will put up with this stuff.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gameplay/story segregation.

Is never okay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

True. But a simple "rest for x amount of hours" feature would solve this even easier, no?

Yes, that would make perfect sense.

If there's a DA2-style day-night cycle, I can induce the passage of time by visiting day and then night and then day versions of the zones.

But if I'm appraching a bandit camp, and I save my game before I attack, when I load it again later those bandits won't have moved an inch. No time will have passed.

So I would argue that this isn't even gameplay/story segregation. It's gameplay/gameplay segregation. Different parts of the gameplay operate on different clocks. And I don't see how we can reconcile that to allow our character's minds to be coherent.

[Maeshone]

Yes, that would make perfect sense.

If there's a DA2-style day-night cycle, I can induce the passage of time by visiting day and then night and then day versions of the zones.

But if I'm appraching a bandit camp, and I save my game before I attack, when I load it again later those bandits won't have moved an inch. No time will have passed.

So I would argue that this isn't even gameplay/story segregation. It's gameplay/gameplay segregation. Different parts of the gameplay operate on different clocks. And I don't see how we can reconcile that to allow our character's minds to be coherent.

You're obviously not supposed to. The realtime countdown is for the player, not the character. This is by design in this game, and all other games that have used the same system (mostly Assassins Creed Brotherhood and forward). It's meant entirely for the player, so the player can send agents to collect crafting materials/reagents/money even while away from the console/PC. That is the only purpose of such a system. It's completely unrelated to the player character.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You're obviously not supposed to. The realtime countdown is for the player, not the character. This is by design in this game, and all other games that have used the same system (mostly Assassins Creed Brotherhood and forward). It's meant entirely for the player, so the player can send agents to collect crafting materials/reagents/money even while away from the console/PC. That is the only purpose of such a system. It's completely unrelated to the player character.

Then I just won't do it. Problem solved.

[AlanC9]

You're obviously not supposed to. The realtime countdown is for the player, not the character. This is by design in this game, and all other games that have used the same system (mostly Assassins Creed Brotherhood and forward). It's meant entirely for the player, so the player can send agents to collect crafting materials/reagents/money even while away from the console/PC. That is the only purpose of such a system. It's completely unrelated to the player character.

I'm a little confused by this. is the player meant to experience the delays, or to not experience them? I'm unlikely to experience them much since my play times are maybe two hours., so unless I start with a short mission it's irrelevant whether there's a timer or not. Might as well just complete them after the next mission.

Or is the point just to give the player a little reward dopamine hit the moment he fires up the game? Looks like I'll be getting that, all right.

I see Sylvius' point. We've got two different kinds of time operating. I'm not personally bothered by that, but it's weirdly incoherent.

[Burricho]

I have a feeling these missions aren't as important as they may seem right now. They might only be resource gathering, whereas the actual quests your Inquisitor takes part in are what advance the plot/open new areas up. Then the time limit would make sense, to prevent grinding for resources.

 

It also helps to disincentivize save scumming and reloading when an outcome isn't favorable. For example, say sending Josephine for something would result in gaining a large amount of resources, whereas sending Cullen or Leliana on the same mission could potentially have you lose resources.

 

I think that would be interesting, since I'm extremely guilty of save scumming when things go south. Perhaps this will force me to actually live with my poor decisions!

I've always been of the opinion that discouraging save scumming by puting in arbitrary systems (such as removing the ability to manually save) is a bad thing and extremely anti consumer. If someone wants to save scum, power to them. It's the players game. If they want to play it and are going to save scum it's entirely there choice, and I think it shows that choices have meaningful impact.

[Maeshone]

I'm a little confused by this. is the player meant to experience the delays, or to not experience them? I'm unlikely to experience them much since my play times are maybe two hours., so unless I start with a short mission it's irrelevant whether there's a timer or not. Might as well just complete them after the next mission.

Or is the point just to give the player a little reward dopamine hit the moment he fires up the game? Looks like I'll be getting that, all right.

I see Sylvius' point. We've got two different kinds of time operating. I'm not personally bothered by that, but it's weirdly incoherent.

It kind of depends on how much you play I suppose. If you play for several hours at a time, you might as well have the timed missions ticking in the background. It's kind of like how I did in ACIV. I'd send my fleet out no matter how long I planned to play, if I played longer than the fleet took, then I just sent them out again. That way the fleet would by default be out doing missions by the time I turned of my console, and then be done by the time I came back. The missions obviously take place in setting, but the timer is not in game. The timer is only so the player isn't able to gather resources instantaneously, as that would invalidate the resource gathering part of the game.

[aries1001]

Does this mean that if say Josephine does not do her allotted quest or mission in say the 4. hour timer, the timer for this quest runs out? And the quest or mission wil be counted as failed?  I think this is what worrying people...

[aries1001]

As for the question about being forced to play for 4 hours straight, I think, the person asking about this is worrying about this: Does this mean that I as player have to play for 4 hours or 3 hours straight in a row in order to complete the mission or quest? Many os us (including myself) does not have the time anymore to play for 4 or even 3 hours in a row? Can we save in the four hour mission, say after 1 hour of play, and then start the mission from the point where we left it?

[spacediscosaurus]

Does this mean that if say Josephine does not do her allotted quest or mission in say the 4. hour timer, the timer for this quest runs out? And the quest or mission wil be counted as failed?  I think this is what worrying people...

 

 

As for the question about being forced to play for 4 hours straight, I think, the person asking about this is worrying about this: Does this mean that I as player have to play for 4 hours or 3 hours straight in a row in order to complete the mission or quest? Many os us (including myself) does not have the time anymore to play for 4 or even 3 hours in a row? Can we save in the four hour mission, say after 1 hour of play, and then start the mission from the point where we left it?

 

Click on "Show Only BioWare Posts" and you'll find the answers to all your questions in Allan's posts.

[aries1001]

I don't really see the big deal people have with this.
It adds more context and makes your inquisition seem like its actually doing something instead of just being a party of 4 going out every now and again.
Assassin's Creed has done this time management thing and it isnt even management. The aspects that become unavailable for the duration of the mission are aspects only found there. They aren't used in actual gameplay.
But if DA:I does do it where it will affect gameplay then it's a simple game of risk/reward.

 

 

Does this mean that player agencey doesn't exit anymore? At least in the missions we as the Inquisitor send e.g. Leliana or Josephine on? If we send i.e. Leliane or Josephine to do a mission. And then complete go out of the game, turn off our computers...the time for the mission is still ticking? As far as I understand it. And four hours later, it is completed. Without the player character, the Inquisitor, have had anything to do with it? Or maybe it is failed?  No matter if the computer is turned off or not. As far as I understand it.

[spacediscosaurus]

Does this mean that player agencey doesn't exit anymore? At least in the missions we as the Inquisitor send e.g. Leliana or Josephine on? If we send i.e. Leliane or Josephine to do a mission. And then complete go out of the game, turn off our computers...the time for the mission is still ticking? As far as I understand it. And four hours later, it is completed. Without the player character, the Inquisitor, have had anything to do with it? Or maybe it is failed?  No matter if the computer is turned off or not. As far as I understand it.

 

These War Table missions are done completely by the agent assigned to them. You, the Inquisitor, take no part in them. These are not the same as quests that you pick a party and go do out in the field. The extent of your involvement in these missions is assigning an agent to take care of it. The timer is for how long it takes the agent to complete the mission. The timer will continue to count down even when not in game. You are not missing content from not being in game while the timer ticks down.