61 réponses à ce sujet

[Shampoohorn]

If we are talking about pure min/maxing, you are maybe right, but Lash is just too fun to skip - and I don't give **** about min/maxing, as long my builds are fun and efficient enough to play Gold

I never play Platinium, but Lash is probably less useful there... that build is about Gold and below.

Lash main utility is to prime at range ; it allow you to prime something in a distant crowd of mooks, than charge and then smash. It's the same as your playstyle, except my build will trigger a biotic explosion at the first charge. Losing maybe 2 seconds to prime something but winning a BE each time you charge a mook, imho that's a fair deal.

And as I said, a power magnifier mod on your SMG/pistol is enough to break the 1000N threshold, even if you skip passives. In a build focused on making the most powerful smash possible, it doesn't make sense to skip them, but I'm focused on BE because that's why the Smashguard is unique (and even without passives, Smash will do shittons of damage thanks to power magnifier+power synergy evo on biotic charge, which I do use).


Wow, if that's true I'll maybe try a pure smash build (maybe on Plat).

 

 

Range?  What is this range that you speak of.  Vanguards charge.  The PhoGuard thrives without Lash, which is tactically much better on the adept and stylistically better on batarian scum.

 

The Power Magnifier weapon mods only boost damage, not force.  Same with gear and power amps.  -5 credibility. 

 

I'm down with your "as long my builds are fun" point but that's an argument that only works in the absence or ignoring of facts -- not that there's anything wrong with that. Likewise, your defensive min/maxing comment is a bit of an over reach.  We don't have any charisma or wisdom to starve and there are many kits that Bioware designed as max/max like the GI, TGI, and salarian engineer.

[Beerfish]

I have not done too bad at this class but I find i am spamming smash through walls a bit too much for my own good.  When I am able to charge and shoot I do okay but some maps and opponents charging is going to be sure death.  My team mates on ghost last night were probably not fond of my smash spamming.  I promoted the class and am now going to try to use lash more.

[Awakened_Pyjak]

Range? What is this range that you speak of. Vanguards charge. The PhoGuard thrives without Lash, which is tactically much better on the adept and stylistically better on batarian scum.

The Power Magnifier weapon mods only boost damage, not force. Same with gear and power amps. -5 credibility.

I'm down with your "as long my builds are fun" point but that's an argument that only works in the absence or ignoring of facts -- not that there's anything wrong with that. Likewise, your defensive min/maxing comment is a bit of an over reach. We don't have any charisma or wisdom to starve and there are many kits that Bioware designed as max/max like the GI, TGI, and salarian engineer.

I don't get your point, o wise and ancient BSNer. I know my english skills are very poor so I'll write only in very short sentences right now :


That build is about making biotic explosions.

Because it's unique for a vanguard.

I don't want to play all the vanguards in the same way.

I dislike skipping powers entirely, even if it's work.

A pure smashguard without Lash is probably very effective.

I like using more than 2 powers during a game.

It's quicker to make BE with Lash->Charge than with Smash->Charge on single targets.

With the bonus power evo you can still follow charge by Smash anyway.

If you prime a target with Lash at range and then charge, it will do a biotic explosion.

If you use Lash on shielded ennemy, he won't fly away.

Then if you charge him he will still be near his little reapers/collectors/geth/cerberus friends.

The radius effect of charge and the biotic explosion will affect all the ennemies near the target, kill or stun them, and makes your charge safer.

It will be even easier to follow charge with Smash without being killed.

I play Gold only and no Plat. Gold has enough mooks to make a good use of Lash.

Gold is easy enough to play with various builds and still be very effective AND fun (I said AND not OR).

...

Also, talking about the smashdept or batarians is irrelevant. Cluster nades are beyond awesome with the batdept, drelldept or drellguard. Should I skip them on the vorcha sentinel just because he's a bit less awesome with it ? No, it's still effective. And fun.



About the power magnifier : according to Narida, power amps and mods do boost damage AND force. So go talk about epeen and internet credibility with whoever did that class builder, not me ; if he's wrong, my only fault was to believe his website.


The 1000N threshold doesn't really matter anyway (I know, blasphemy !). If you play my build without detoning a BE with almost each biotic charge, then lrn2play scrub. I believe a BE is enough to stagger most humanoids targets, including phantoms. I'd be glad to hear some ancient BSN wisdom about that.


(Well, I never been into a stupid BSN argument before, thanks.)

[Andr0idOS]

Melee or GTFO.

 

The usual Vanguard playstyle, charge all the things and get up in their face, follow it up with a Smash or heavy melee depending on if BC Bonus Power was procced, and always cancel your Smashes with a heavy melee, unless dire circumstances necessitate a dodge for additional DR.

 

It's actually really fun once you get the timing figured out and learn how to survive since he's pretty squishy, along with a relatively high casting time for Smash, even when you cancel half way.

 

Smashguard is easily in my top 5 favorite kits to play.

[Cyonan]

If we are talking about pure min/maxing, you are maybe right, but Lash is just too fun to skip - and I don't give **** about min/maxing, as long my builds are fun and efficient enough to play Gold

I never play Platinium, but Lash is probably less useful there... that build is about Gold and below.

Lash main utility is to prime at range ; it allow you to prime something in a distant crowd of mooks, than charge and then smash. It's the same as your playstyle, except my build will trigger a biotic explosion at the first charge. Losing maybe 2 seconds to prime something but winning a BE each time you charge a mook, imho that's a fair deal.

And as I said, a power magnifier mod on your SMG/pistol is enough to break the 1000N threshold, even if you skip passives. In a build focused on making the most powerful smash possible, it doesn't make sense to skip them, but I'm focused on BE because that's why the Smashguard is unique (and even without passives, Smash will do shittons of damage thanks to power magnifier+power synergy evo on biotic charge, which I do use).

 

Well I mentioned I use the Mantis with the Phoenix and I wasn't actually joking, so I'd say I don't care about min/maxing either =P I was just pointing out why people might not take Lash on this kit.

 

It's a preference thing. The only reason my Phoenix Vanguard is at range is because I just finished up with a group and am about to charge into a new group. I find more frequent and powerful charges and smashes to be more useful than ranged priming on a Vanguard.

 

I'm pretty certain that the Power Magnifier mods don't actually increase force. Power Synergy from Biotic Charge will bring you over the 1000N threshold for 10 seconds or taking Force & Damage at rank 4(which means giving up the 3 target charge). Having your passives means not needing to worry about any of that.

[Quarian Master Race]

I only use the smashguard for trolling purposes, and was disappointed when I discovered I couldn't smash and fire a hornet at the same time like a real goon.

[Shampoohorn]

I don't get your point, o wise and ancient BSNer. I know my english skills are very poor so I'll write only in very short sentences right now :

...snip...

About the power magnifier : according to Narida, power amps and mods do boost damage AND force. So go talk about epeen and internet credibility with whoever did that class builder, not me ; if he's wrong, my only fault was to believe his website.


The 1000N threshold doesn't really matter anyway (I know, blasphemy !). If you play my build without detoning a BE with almost each biotic charge, then lrn2play scrub. I believe a BE is enough to stagger most humanoids targets, including phantoms. I'd be glad to hear some ancient BSN wisdom about that.


(Well, I never been into a stupid BSN argument before, thanks.)

 

 

Well consider it your first won argument too, if only for posting something too long for me to bother reading. Heh.  Seriously though, I'll give your build a spin sometime.  You do make some interesting points.

 

Regardless, Narida is wrong on that count.  Generally the kalence builder is more accurate. Force can only be boosted via the power trees.  You can either take that as further critique or helpful advice.  Not sure what epeen has to do with correcting someone who is misinformed.  Meh.

[capn233]

^ Yeah AFAIK only power tree evolutions can boost force.  Power Magnifiers, Power Amps, Power Gear only affect the damage number.

[Deerber]

^ Yeah AFAIK only power tree evolutions can boost force.  Power Magnifiers, Power Amps, Power Gear only affect the damage number.

 

That's my understanding too.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Cluster nades are beyond awesome with the batdept, drelldept or drellguard. Should I skip them on the vorcha sentinel just because he's a bit less awesome with it ? No, it's still effective. And fun.
 

 

You'll be hearing from my Vorcha lawyers, (Flamer, Flamer, and Carnage) in re a suit for libel.

[Shampoohorn]

Well consider it your first won argument too, if only for posting something too long for me to bother reading. Heh.  Seriously though, I'll give your build a spin sometime.  You do make some interesting points.

Tried a 6/6/6/4/4 build last night, focusing on the lash/charge and lash/smash combos. Overall not very impressive in the two gold matches.

Problems:
1) Enemies dodge lash.
ii) Lash flings enemies into unchargeable and unpredictable locations.
3) BE's won't trigger sometimes. Either because of charge killing outright or possible some lag issues. This is especially an issue with the lowest level Gold mooks which don't have the hitpoint pool to survive the sequence.
d) Lash is a buggy power with respect to ragdolling. It frequently causes the followup charge and BE to do no damage. This is similar to what happens sometimes with stasised and frozen mooks only worse because lash is always paralyzing and ragdolling simultaneously.

It may have made more sense for me to go 6/6/6/0/6 so that the powers did less damage, which would have led to more BE's, I think. However, it's just a bad idea to run a build under 1000newtons vs cerberus; you can rely on lash to prime flipping, bubbling phantoms.

Admittedly, these games were as a client not host, but I frequently play vanguards off host without too much trouble. The experience reminded me of playing a Pull/Charge drellguard, always looking for mooks to pull, always watching teammates kill them before you can charge.  On the plus side, it seemed like every objective was a hack yesterday and Lash is a nice power for crowd controlling mid range Coll captains and rocket troopers.

 

[capn233]

I tried the Lash - Charge thing when the Phoenix characters came out.  Number 2 was most of why I didn't care for it.