41 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody2Hottie]

Just to ease my mind if it turn's out its not fun at all. I just finished act 1 as a Primal Force Mage thing's are very fun but I'm feeling not overpowered but everything just seems the same , Pull into the Abyss , Lightning , Slam and let Ferris finish things off if i failed too.

I'm looking at some Rogue gameplay they seem very fun but I don't know I enjoy the fact the story kinda focuses on me due to being a Mage , I doub't I'll get that same feeling as a Rogue maybe I can look past it. :/

[Abraham_uk]

As far as I'm concerned, rogues are the essential party member since they can unlock doors and disable traps.

As a rogue you can bring along any group of three party members.

 

 

So think about it this way.

As a mage or warrior you'd be bringing:

 

 

Warrior, Warrior, Rogue

Mage, Mage, Rogue

Warrior, Mage, Rogue

Warrior, Rogue, Rogue

Mage, Rogue, Rogue

etc.

 

You'd be excluding any combinations of 3 companions that have no rogues.

So in a way having a rogue opens up doors to more combinations.

[Cody2Hottie]

Also if not a Rogue how fun are Two Handed Or Shield Warrior's , Games do this to me alot after i finished something importent at the beginning i like too know other Option's i have before really settling on a character. 

Warrior's 
Is it more fun being the main damage dealer in the Party as a Two Handed Warrior , or is it more fun being the Tank of the party that draw's the aggro away from your teammates as a Shield Warrior.

[Abraham_uk]

Also if not a Rogue how fun are Two Handed Or Shield Warrior's , Games do this to me alot after i finished something importent at the beginning i like too know other Option's i have before really settling on a character. 

Warrior's 
Is it more fun being the main damage dealer in the Party as a Two Handed Warrior , or is it more fun being the Tank of the party that draw's the aggro away from your teammates as a Shield Warrior.

 

Rogues are very powerful against single targets.

 

Max out the following:

 

Dual Wield

Assassin Skill Tree

 

Place Points into:

Specialist to make the rogue speedy.

 

 

 

Attributes:

Put lots of points into both cunning and dexterity.

 

The animations look pretty cool with two daggers and it never gets old.

 

 

 

Other Options:

Or you could go full on archer. That is another amazing option.

Maybe you want to debuff foes and divert attention with saboteur or scoundrel.

Maybe you want to sneak around on the battlefield with subterfuge and shadow.

 

 

Doors, chests and traps:

Need not be an issue if you're a rogue!

 

 

Rogues in my opinion are not as fun as mages, but they are still a really fun class.

[Cody2Hottie]

As far as I'm concerned, rogues are the essential party member since they can unlock doors and disable traps.

As a rogue you can bring along any group of three party members.

 

 

So think about it this way.

As a mage or warrior you'd be bringing:

 

 

Warrior, Warrior, Rogue

Mage, Mage, Rogue

Warrior, Mage, Rogue

Warrior, Rogue, Rogue

Mage, Rogue, Rogue

etc.

 

You'd be excluding any combinations of 3 companions that have no rogues.

So in a way having a rogue opens up doors to more combinations.

So i should be a Rogue your telling me lol. Ah now that i know things about this game it's so hard to think which character i should settle on , I think being a Mage is kinda lost its value although powerful I wanna be in the frontlines either as a Rogue or a Warrior. :/

[tirnoney]

Rogues are a lot of fun, especially dw. Archers can get boring depending on how you play it. There are several specialism routes you can take and the difficulty level determines which is likely to be more useful. On hard or above i'd suggest shadow first, then assassin. On normal go for assassin first. Some people love duelist, but afaic most of the passives boost crit chance which you can max out with gear and stats anyway. On nightmare due to friendly fire, archery is easier than dw. If you play to your strengths - keeping enemies confused and taking down bosses - you should find that rogues are very powerful in da2, if a little squishy at the start.

Warriors can be fun too but i'd recommend s&s regardless of whether you want to tank or dps. Upgraded s&s tree plus varric with upgraded sabotage tree will allow you to tear through mobs and bosses as easily as 2h, but you'll be a lot more resilient.

The best thing is probably to do a playthrough of each but roleplay them differently. E.g. pro-templar warrior.

[Abraham_uk]

So i should be a Rogue your telling me lol. Ah now that i know things about this game it's so hard to think which character i should settle on , I think being a Mage is kinda lost its value although powerful I wanna be in the frontlines either as a Rogue or a Warrior. :/

 

Mages in Dragon Age 2 can still be on the frontlines.

Your force mage with a few healing spells and defensive spells can be on the frontline too.

Mages are very flexible. You can make just about any playstyle work, as long as you spend your skill and attribute points accordingly.

 

 

That said, dual wielding rogues are exceptional frontline fighters.

[Elhanan]

While I prefer the versatility and varied spells of Mages, the Rogues are also enjoyable.

Personally, I like the hybrid Rogue with more focus on Archer and longbows, but DW is also pleasing. There are several Talents for quickly evading melee, and also varied choices for offense. Being able to remove traps and locks yourself ahead of the party is quite helpful, as are other tactical choices such as Stealth, map placement, etc. There are also many various weapons from which to choose, so effects and appearances are more versatile.

[Riven326]

I was thinking about playing a rogue in DA2 as well. I'm sort of torn between that class and a mage. Not just for gameplay reasons either, but also for role-playing.

[cJohnOne]

Um,  I thought Warriors were underwhelming as far as being the PC.  To me DW Rogues are the best in the game.  I go 2 dex. to 1 cunning.  Dex increases critical chance and cunning increases critical damage. 

[Sidney]

Rogues are monsters in the game. As other have said, dual wield, go for Assasination tree and Vendetta and get as many items and runes that increase your attack speed. You will chew through foes much, much faster than any warrior can.

[Sidney]

Um,  I thought Warriors were underwhelming as far as being the PC.  To me DW Rogues are the best in the game.  I go 2 dex. to 1 cunning.  Dex increases critical chance and cunning increases critical damage. 

 

I go the other way, crit chance can be "aided" by skills, I want damage plus cunning increases defense so you can become neigh unhittable.

[MagicalMaster]

Archery rogues are completely ridiculous.  Snipe everything from miles away in no danger, use Assassinate on priority targets.  On easier difficulties dual-wield is better but on Nightmare it's broken how fast you can chew through stuff while not having to run from enemy to enemy.  Pick something in the game and I'll FRAPS a video of archer rogue gameplay, it's hilarious.

[Lulupab]

In matters of efficiency:

Killing hordes of enemies: Mage > Warrior > Rogue
Dealing damage to a single target: Rogue > Mage > Warrior
Resilience: Warrior > Mage (with buffs) > Rogue
Avoiding being hit: Rogue > Warrior > Mage
Support: Mage > Rogue (certain skill trees and opening locks) > Warrior

Make your main party Aveline + Anders + your rogue + anyone you like. Rogues can be much fun but they depend on allies more often.

Also no matter how much you try, Varric will ALWAYS be better than your archer Hawke, so keep that in mind. His unique tree is ridiculously overpowered.

Anders is very squishy but he deals more damage than your mage Hawke if you build his Vengeance tree (although I'm talking purely damage here, Hawke has much more utility therefore a better mage in general. More crowd control, self healing, better resilience etc...)

Varric is better than archer rogue Hawke.

Aveline is better than Hawke with weapon and shield warrior Hawke.

Strongest Hawkes are these, especially on nightmare:

Warrior, twohanded, Berserker + Reaver
Mage, bloodmage + forecemage
Rogue, dualwield, Duelist + Assassin

[tirnoney]

In matters of efficiency:

Killing hordes of enemies: Mage > Warrior > Rogue
Dealing damage to a single target: Rogue > Mage > Warrior
Resilience: Warrior > Mage (with buffs) > Rogue
Avoiding being hit: Rogue > Warrior > Mage
Support: Mage > Rogue (certain skill trees and opening locks) > Warrior

Make your main party Aveline + Anders + your rogue + anyone you like. Rogues can be much fun but they depend on allies more often.

Also no matter how much you try, Varric will ALWAYS be better than your archer Hawke, so keep that in mind. His unique tree is ridiculously overpowered.

Anders is very squishy but he deals more damage than your mage Hawke if you build his Vengeance tree (although I'm talking purely damage here, Hawke has much more utility therefore a better mage in general. More crowd control, self healing, better resilience etc...)

Varric is better than archer rogue Hawke.

Aveline is better than Hawke with weapon and shield warrior Hawke.

Strongest Hawkes are these, especially on nightmare:

Warrior, twohanded, Berserker + Reaver
Mage, bloodmage + forecemage
Rogue, dualwield, Duelist + Assassin

A lot of what you're saying about companion damage is true in theory, but you're forgetting that companions have the biggest debuff in the game, namely their AI. Many fights, especially on nightmare are won or lost on clever tactics and playstyle, not raw damage that's never realised in game.

[MagicalMaster]

Also no matter how much you try, Varric will ALWAYS be better than your archer Hawke, so keep that in mind. His unique tree is ridiculously overpowered.

 

I don't buy it.

 

Near end game...

 

Hawke

95% crit

376% crit damage

153 DPS (or damage per shot, forget, doesn't matter)

 

That's 554 DPS.

 

Varric

76% crit

212% crit damage

145 DPS.

 

That's 268 DPS.

 

Varric gets a pair of 20% speed bonuses, but even if we factor those in multiplicatively that's 386 DPS, still only about 69% of Hawke's...and without things like Mark of Death, Pinpoint Strikes, or Assassinate.

 

Obviously a bunch of other factors apply beyond those numbers but they SHOULD be affecting both values equally afaik.

 

Archer Hawke is a goddess of destruction.

[Lulupab]

You haven't built Varric properly then. Don't forget that his unique tree gives him these:

Bianca's song
Attack: 20%
Attack speed: 20%
Critical damage: 30%
Critical chance: 30%

Well Oiled:
Attack speed: 20%

His friendship bonus:
5% attack speed.

It goes without saying that he has access to all rogue trees that improve archery, all except specs that Hawke can have and none of those provide attack speed bonuses. Its almost as if he attacks two times when your Hawke attacks one time in any given time. Not to mention he doesn't need Assassinate. His ability "kickback" deals 800% bonus damage to staggered enemies. It deals more damage than assassinate. And near the end game his rhyming triplet which actually shoots five arrows, not three, becomes crazy damage source because this ability deals the damage five times and separated which has perfect synergy with crit. You attack five times in fastest way possible with all five critting.

[Lulupab]

A lot of what you're saying about companion damage is true in theory, but you're forgetting that companions have the biggest debuff in the game, namely their AI. Many fights, especially on nightmare are won or lost on clever tactics and playstyle, not raw damage that's never realised in game.

That's why I keep switching them, tactics are useful but its shouldn't be the only way to control companions.

[tirnoney]

That's why I keep switching them, tactics are useful but its shouldn't be the only way to control companions.

Micromanaging gets old fast, for me anyway. Mostly because I still get emotionally involved in my Hawke, whatever class she happens to be. The more I become involved in the intricasies of combat mechanics the less I seem to care if Hawke lives or dies. Still, I appreciate that a lot of people enjoy the challenge and are more interested in the action than the rpg stuff.

[Lulupab]

Micromanaging gets old fast, for me anyway. Mostly because I still get emotionally involved in my Hawke, whatever class she happens to be. The more I become involved in the intricasies of combat mechanics the less I seem to care if Hawke lives or dies. Still, I appreciate that a lot of people enjoy the challenge and are more interested in the action than the rpg stuff.

The developers have put a lot of effort behind synergy but sometimes you can see that its not balanced. I once made my Hawke spirit healer and Anders the damaging mage. I really didn't need to control Hawke anymore, she always healed on time, cast support spells on time etc... so I ended up controlling Anders most of time. It wasn't that bad to be honest. Because I was controlling him he wasn't really squishy anymore as I was in the right place all the time, being protected.

This made me like the game more. This was when I noticed Vengeance Anders is quite powerful. so he takes more damage but deals more damage as well. So he deals more damage than my mage at expense of dying faster. Interesting. But this is not all, when Anders kills someone he gets healed. So why? He has a spell that he can sacrifice hp to get mana and reduce all his cooldowns by 20%. This means he can cast two lightning bolts and fireballs while my Hawke can cast one in any given time. Also his spells deal more damage cause of Vengeance. The most overpowered part: He can permanently cast haste on the party? How? cast it, reduce the cooldowns by sacrificing hp, kill enemies to get healed back, the cooldown of haste is ready before the previous buff expires, refresh it!

It was micromanaging that made it possible for me to discover this and I really enjoyed that playthrough.

[tirnoney]

The developers have put a lot of effort behind synergy but sometimes you can see that its not balanced. I once made my Hawke spirit healer and Anders the damaging mage. I really didn't need to control Hawke anymore, she always healed on time, cast support spells on time etc... so I ended up controlling Anders most of time. It wasn't that bad to be honest. Because I was controlling him he wasn't really squishy anymore as I was in the right place all the time, being protected.

This made me like the game more. This was when I noticed Vengeance Anders is quite powerful. so he takes more damage but deals more damage as well. So he deals more damage than my mage at expense of dying faster. Interesting. But this is not all, when Anders kills someone he gets healed. So why? He has a spell that he can sacrifice hp to get mana and reduce all his cooldowns by 20%. This means he can cast two lightning bolts and fireballs while my Hawke can cast one in any given time. Also his spells deal more damage cause of Vengeance. The most overpowered part: He can permanently cast haste on the party? How? cast it, reduce the cooldowns by sacrificing hp, kill enemies to get healed back, the cooldown of haste is ready before the previous buff expires, refresh it!

It was micromanaging that made it possible for me to discover this and I really enjoyed that playthrough.

Yes I suppose that takes care of the biggest problem I have with companion AI which is positioning. If I leave Anders for a moment the next thing I know he's screaming because he's standing in front of Aveline doing a scatter. It's hard not to laugh at it to be honest. I don't think I could play as Anders though since I find him barely tolerable at the best of times. After the first few times of him dying due to friendly fire I just let him stay dead. It's a roleplay vs. gameplay issue I suppose.

[Elhanan]

Yes I suppose that takes care of the biggest problem I have with companion AI which is positioning. If I leave Anders for a moment the next thing I know he's screaming because he's standing in front of Aveline doing a scatter. It's hard not to laugh at it to be honest. I don't think I could play as Anders though since I find him barely tolerable at the best of times. After the first few times of him dying due to friendly fire I just let him stay dead. It's a roleplay vs. gameplay issue I suppose.

I recommend not placing AoE spells in Tactics as a rule. This many encounters could be done w/o micro-mgt, and easily managed when certain AoE spells are desired.

[MagicalMaster]

You haven't built Varric properly then. Don't forget that his unique tree gives him these:

Bianca's song
Attack: 20%
Attack speed: 20%
Critical damage: 30%
Critical chance: 30%

Well Oiled:
Attack speed: 20%

His friendship bonus:
5% attack speed.

 

And everything you mention (except the Friendship bonus) is factored into those numbers I gave.  So technically give Varric 5% more damage if you want, doesn't matter, doesn't come close to changing the result.

 

It goes without saying that he has access to all rogue trees that improve archery, all except specs that Hawke can have and none of those provide attack speed bonuses. Its almost as if he attacks two times when your Hawke attacks one time in any given time. Not to mention he doesn't need Assassinate. His ability "kickback" deals 800% bonus damage to staggered enemies. It deals more damage than assassinate. And near the end game his rhyming triplet which actually shoots five arrows, not three, becomes crazy damage source because this ability deals the damage five times and separated which has perfect synergy with crit. You attack five times in fastest way possible with all five critting.

 

Even if the bonuses are multiplicative (which I don't think they are), he attacks 51.2% faster BEST case.

 

His Kickback does NOT deal 800% bonus damage to staggered enemies, it deals 800% FORCE to staggered enemies.  Aka, it kicks them back.  Does not increase the damage.

 

His Ryming Triplet shots only deal about half the damage of his regular shots and I'm not sure it even winds up being a DPS bonus as a result.  He'd have to attack twice as fast the Triplet shots to even keep up with his auto attacks, it's extremely minor overall.

[Lulupab]

You do realize what 51% faster means right? i you guys attack for minute and you attack 100 times he will attack 150 times. Given the stats you gave me, that Varric will deal more damage than your Hawke. not to mention you used all those stats bonuses yourself and I don't know if you gave Varric the red lyrium token which gives Bianca 4 rune slots and if you enchant it then he will be legendary.

I haven't played for a long time, so I was probably wrong about kickback but I do know one thing that even if your ranger hawke is somewhat better than Varric (which he isn't, or he is better just a very tiny bit) dualwield Hawke deals like 5x more damage than ranger one. Why would anyone play a ranger hawke is beyond me, not to mention 80% of Assassin, Duelist and Shadow spec talents are better on a melee rogue.