In general I wouldn't say necessarily the mages are the goody two shoes side, but in the context of Meredith and the choice to enact the Right of Annulment for Anders' lunacy, I'm kinda forced to say they are.
EDIT: Minus Orsino of course, but even then he at first seems like the straight up hero in most of the final confrontations with Meredith.
Yeah this. XD
Seriously tho one side has you siding with people who have been shown to have rapists and murders among them, the other bloodmages and oppressed people. Which one do you think is the stereotypical "good" option?
For people who weren't invested in either side of the debate, I think it comes down to whether or not Bethany was in the Circle. My logic being that most player played warriors, most players liked Bethany, and most of the time, Bethany was in the Circle. So when the big choice comes, they side with the Mages to protect their little sister.
I don't know if it was said before, but although the image of the halla looks the same, the colours aren't. Of course, it could be artistic licence, but it could also be that it's another Dalish clan's symbol. After all, it's not as if in real life we don't have countries with similar flag designs but different colours (or even the same colours, now that I think about it).
(Now feeling the need to play CKII again. So many heraldries).
But the elves of human nations are not seeking to restore their elven heritage, they want a better life where they are
That's what the elves who helped Andraste wanted too, at first that is. If there is an Elven homeland I seriously doubt any city elf will stay just to have a better life where he/she is. As I said given time they'll realize it sooner or later. Not all of course because many elves didn't even wanted that. Some elves consider themselves from a nation first, elf second. Tevinter has many elven agents for example.
If the choice is "give up everything and move to a homeland run by the dalish" or stay put, I imagine most city elves will stay put
If the choice is "give up everything and move to a homeland run by the dalish" or stay put, I imagine most city elves will stay put
I think given the opportunity, most City Elves would rather be treated as equals by humans than go join the Dalish. They have more in common with humans since the spend their lives in close proximity to them, after all.
If the choice is "give up everything and move to a homeland run by the dalish" or stay put, I imagine most city elves will stay put
For people who weren't invested in either side of the debate, I think it comes down to whether or not Bethany was in the Circle. My logic being that most player played warriors, most players liked Bethany, and most of the time, Bethany was in the Circle. So when the big choice comes, they side with the Mages to protect their little sister.
Oh I don't know it just looks really bad for Meredith to call the ROA on people who didn't do anything when the criminal she should be hunting down is right infront of her face and she ignores him.
I mean there are reasons that the annulment can be seen as a good idea...but Meredith's are just...wut. It does not help she ignores Anders.
But yeah the sibling probably does play apart (no matter how vile I make my Hawke there are always 2 things that will never be canon for me. Betraying Fenris (it's unnecessary and disgusting) and letting Meredith kill Bethany (the way she kicks her off her sword I'd stabbed her).
The templars are clearly the victims here!
XD
To be abused even further? That's their choice. What is this "everything" they are giving up? They will miss being raped? Killing for apparently pissing off guards? Or being killed in "defense of a human" in Ferelden?
it may be rotting, oppressive, impoverished, smelly, and a overall a hellhole, but its home
there's a reason that city elves don't flock to the dalish whenever a clan comes by
Oh I don't know it just looks really bad for Meredith to call the ROA on people who didn't do anything when the criminal she should be hunting down is right infront of her face and she ignores him.
I mean there are reasons that the annulment can be seen as a good idea...but Meredith's are just...wut. It does not help she ignores Anders.
But yeah the sibling probably does play apart (no matter how vile I make my Hawke there are always 2 things that will never be canon for me. Betraying Fenris (it's unnecessary and disgusting) and letting Meredith kill Bethany (the way she kicks her off her sword I'd stabbed her).
Well, yeah, there was the fact they were being punished for something that wasn't their fault, too.
Goddammit, Anders.
Well, yeah, there was the fact they were being punished for something that wasn't their fault, too.
Goddammit, Anders.
In that regard Anders is alot like Adrian.
Talking all about the freedom of mages and how we should stop the killing.
But he himself is totally fine with sacrificing a few mages for his greater good.
Its such a shame what happned to him, he was one of my favorites in Awakening.
it may be rotting, oppressive, impoverished, smelly, and a overall a hellhole, but its home
there's a reason that city elves don't flock to the dalish whenever a clan comes by
They usually don't know where the Dalish is. They are afraid they will die. Those who are brave usually join the Dalish. Dalish life can be harder than city elf life but if they are settled in a homeland of their own that's a whole different story.
What about the City Elves who doesn't want to convert to the Dalish religion?
And being brave has nothing to do with them joining the Dalish
So they simply wont convert. As I said many didn't moved to Dales when elves were granted that land to settle. They liked their life. Many elves in Antiva and even Tevinter stayed.What about the City Elves who doesn't want to convert to the Dalish religion?
And being brave has nothing to do with them joining the Dalish
In that regard Anders is alot like Adrian.
Talking all about the freedom of mages and how we should stop the killing.
But he himself is totally fine with sacrificing a few mages for his greater good.
Its such a shame what happned to him, he was one of my favorites in Awakening.
I actually liked his descent into a nihilistic extremist. But I have a thing for heartbreak.
Well, yeah, there was the fact they were being punished for something that wasn't their fault, too.
Goddammit, Anders.
Meredith would have eventually find a way to annul the circle given how crazy she was.
With what Anders did, all mages became really angry at Templars because mages had nothing to with the incident and they were annulled. This anger was one of the major reasons the fraternities decided on a vote to split from the chantry and other mages accepted and moved to andoral's reach.
Which is exactly why Anders murdered Elthina and removed the only obstacle to Meredith's madness. Ander's was crazy, he wasn't stupid.
Exactly. And he did feel guilt after what he did too. People tend to call him crazy. insane etc... but its wrong he planned it all along and if your trust is high enough (100% friendship) he does tell you that he is going to do something that he has been planning for long but do not want Hawke to be connected to it in anyway. (appears after doing his act 3 quest and choosing the star dialogue "Don't you trust me?" which only appears on 100% friend)Which is exactly why Anders murdered Elthina and removed the only obstacle to Meredith's madness. Ander's was crazy, he wasn't stupid.
Exactly. And he did feel guilt after what he did too. People tend to call him crazy. insane etc... but its wrong he planned it all along and if your trust is high enough (100% friendship) he does tell you that he is going to do something that he has been planning for long but do not want Hawke to be connected to it in anyway. (appears after doing his act 3 quest and choosing the star dialogue "Don't you trust me?" which only appears on 100% friend)
Also my opinion on Anders is quite grey. He is the most tormented mage by the chantry and its rules all his life, they even went to the limit of sending spies to grey warden ranks. if you hate something and ruin it's life like that it will blow in your face, quite literally in Anders' case. Its was a Vendetta, not even simple vengeance.
That's the thing with Anders. He's one of the few companions in Dragon Age I have a strong dislike of, but his character arc is still among my favorites in the franchise.
I've played entire playthroughs of DA2 with the idea of siding with the Templars at the end, but when Meredith decides to annihilate all the mages just because the one who blew up the Chantry is standing right in front of her and she somehow decides to ignore that in favor of destroying what she has always hated ... I just can't do it. It makes her just as much a monster as Anders. Both characters are basically acting out their hatreds. They're basically using one thing as an excuse to do what they've always wanted to do.
For Anders, he's striking out at the innocents in the Chantry instead of Meredith and Templars who are truly at fault. He justifies it by saying that Chantry refused to take a side, but in reality, I don't think he wanted them to. If they had, he would have to take a risk that they would have actually sided with the Circle against Meredith ... after all, the Circle's complaints were actually just. By removing the Chantry, Anders removed any hope of resolving the situation by removing the third party that could have laid the whole thing to rest.
Meredith in turn used the Chantry explosion to justify her removal of the Circle once and for all. Who cares that the Circle hadn't actually done it? All that matters to her is that she can justify the leap in her own mind.
So the dominoes fall, but I don't see how you can fall out on the side of Meredith. There are children in the Circle Tower, even if your sister isn't in there, the children are. Do they deserve to die because of Anders?
Well, let me take that back. I did manage to side with her once. In one playthrough because I wanted to see how that road ended, but it made me feel dirty.
Well, yeah, there was the fact they were being punished for something that wasn't their fault, too.
Goddammit, Anders.
Don't you mean 'Maker dammit, Anders'?
Don't you mean 'Maker dammit, Anders'?
Meredith would have eventually find a way to annul the circle given how crazy she was.
With what Anders did, all mages became really angry at Templars because mages had nothing to with the incident and they were annulled. This anger was one of the major reasons the fraternities decided on a vote to split from the chantry and other mages accepted and moved to andoral's reach.
Well, considering that I ended up killing them, I don't think Merrill's clan will be making much of a comeback.
Meredith had already gone over Elthina's head and appealed directly to the Divine for the Rite. If you leave Karras alive early, he tells you this whenever you visit the Gallows in Act 3. Given that the Divine was already concerned enough about the Mage situation to send her Hand to look into the matter, it seems like it was only a matter of time, regardless of what the Grand Cleric would have done. Anders just sped up the inevitable, and Meredith apparently thought she had enough proof even before a Mage murdered a bunch of innocent people in a terrorist act.
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