Number 1 is probably correct, but number 2 is one big lie, most players don't even know that Merrill can die because it's too difficult to trigger the event.
Do you even know what your talking about?
You do realize i was speaking from my own personal playthroughs? That was explained quite clearly on page two.
Indeed i am!
It's from my own personal 17 specific playthroughs of Dragon Age 2
in thirteen of those playthroughs, Merril was killed.
The idea I've seen put forth is that Merrill turning to blood magic and messing around with the mirror is the catalyst for everything else that happens to the clan and Merethari. Had she not been so stubborn and prideful, the Clan would have moved on after Hawke showed up with the amulet and lived happy Dalish lives doing whatever Dalish do that isn't death by Hawke.
Hence the blame. I don't necessarily agree that makes it all her fault, but nor do I believe she is completely free of responsibility.
But at the same time, if Merethari hadn't refused to help Merrill to purge the mirror then Merrill wouldn't have feelt forced to do it herself and turn to blood magic. Most Dalish feel strongly about getting back what they have lost, it's the most important thing to them, but Merethari are different and want them to forget the past and move on. Most Dalish would probably have agreed with Merrill and helped her because just like her they too want to find out what they have lost and get it back.
Do you even know what your talking about?
You do realize i was speaking from my own personal playthroughs? That was explained quite clearly on page two.
Heh, I had the same misunderstanding last night. 
I think she was against purifying the Eluvian because it caused her two of her clanspeople: Tamlen and Mahariel. Knowing what the mirror has done, I believe she didn't want anything to do with it. And even if she did help, would her power alone or with Merrill purify the mirror?
Given that the Sabrae clan might make a return, this could lead to a cameo for Merrill maybe? Or even the Dalish warden!
In many playthoughs Hawke ended up killing the clan (the choice that leads to them not being killed wasn't obvious), so this could be totally optional, unless not all of them died.
What are your thoughts? Discuss! (But keep it respectful!)
Sod that clan. Couldn't stick around for one lousy year to see if my warden would succeed, but could afford to hang outside of Kirkwall for 7 because of Merrill. Hmph. I always made it through with them and Merrill still alive and kicking though. I didn't realise there was any other choice for my first two playthroughs. It just always worked out that way.
My own spite aside, it would be interesting to see how they picked up the pieces of losing their Keeper and First. Oh and their Halla. Damn they were a total mess. Should have stayed and helped fight the Blight..would have been better off for it
I doubt I'd see Merrill appearing with those guys any time soon though, they made their feelings pretty clear. I was kinda hoping she'd go off with Isabela and become a pirate elf instead. Even when I romanced Isabela. Come along for the fun!
But at the same time, if Merethari hadn't refused to help Merrill to purge the mirror then Merrill wouldn't have feelt forced to do it herself and turn to blood magic.
Unless Merethari was going to raid Kirkwall and try and steal Templar lyrium supplies, Merethari's assistance wouldn't have changed the need for blood magic. It might have legitimized Merrill's attempts... but, at the same time, could well have delegitimized Merethari herself. Condoning taboo for Keeper's Favorite would hardly make it no longer a taboo.
Now, if Merethari and the Clan hadn't been oppossed to Merrill's efforts, would the events have occured as they did? Certainly not- hence why TK doesn't lay all the blame on Merrill. But the same can be said of Merrill, who has a lot less legitimacy in her stand of refusing to backdown than the Tribe had in refusing to support and enable her actions.
Most Dalish feel strongly about getting back what they have lost, it's the most important thing to them, but Merethari are different and want them to forget the past and move on. Most Dalish would probably have agreed with Merrill and helped her because just like her they too want to find out what they have lost and get it back.
Except that 'most Dalish', which is to say every Dalish in the game who wasn't named Merrill, didn't agree with her or help. Not just Merethari, but the hunters, the craftsman, the recent convert, and every other Dalish in the game who offered a view on the subject. In so much that there was ever a 'typical' Dalish stance to be presented, Merrill the Pariah was not it- the 'typical' stance would have been the sentiment shared by the more numerous and 'normal' tribe. And the view o f the normal Dalish was that Merrill, and her work, were wrong.
The Dalish have a cultural reclamation complex, but they also are superstitious and defer to their leadership on places to avoid, even if those places and things might have some scrap of cultural artifact. There are hardliners and other clans (or rather, other keepers) who might agree- but it's extremely unlikely they would be presented as representative of 'most' Dalish when the writer intent was clearly that Merrill was outside the norm.
Why would Marethari help cleanse the mirror? It spelled disaster for two of her clan, and there is no guarantee that she knew how to cleanse it any more than Merrill did without resorting to blood magic.
I see the mirror as simply a case of Merrill wanting something without thinking through every possible consequence and realizing that the cost isn't worth it.
lawl
I get why he jumps down your threat in a rivalry (well if you're not romancing him anyway) but I don't get why it's a flirt on friendship.
Me neither.
"Uh, Fenris, I consider being able to read an excellent tool for self-sufficiency in this world, as well as opening your mind to new ideas and means of communication. It doesn't mean I want to read you bedtime stories"
Did you have her as part of the group that ventured out often? Once Bethany was no longer part of the team, Merrill was the only mage I really took everywhere, because I didn't need mopey McHealer.
Yeah, I mean, she was my LI after all. bBut If I was to do anything particularly anti-mage, I'd leave her behind in favor of Anders (whom I always rival now) assuming I take a mage at all.
It'd be nice to see what a Dalish Clan does when it loses it's Keeper with no First to take over the job.
I don't think this means we'll see Merril or The Warden though. Merril's an exile, and The Warden is, well, a Grey Warden.
I think they're just there so we can see how much more the clan can suffer.
Why would Marethari help cleanse the mirror? It spelled disaster for two of her clan, and there is no guarantee that she knew how to cleanse it any more than Merrill did without resorting to blood magic.
The mirror didn't spell disaster for two of her clan, it was the darkspawn taint that corrupted it that had. Merrill merely asked for help cleansing a single shard of that mirror of the taint. Merethari refused, so Merrill looked for another way to reach the same end. She tells Hawke that if she had buckets of lyrium around, she could've used that to amplify the spell she used, but she didn't.
Gaider said that the mirror Merrill was working on was one she was constructing from scratch after tracking down a lot of lore and extrapolating as much information from the shard that she took from the corrupted one.
And the guarantee is in in the Dalish Origin itself, as Merethari uses that spell to subdue, or delay the affects of the taint in the Dalish Warden. And Merrill succeeded, and the proof is that she never became tainted, and neither did anyone else in over a decade.
Now that I've said my piece on that, I think I'll leave this thread for a bit. Won't be long before we as a collective forum go around in Circle's in our debates. This very same debate has been done repeatedly for years now.
I bid everyone of this particular thread, adieu. 
I am not sure whether I should spare the Warden's clan or put them out of their writer-induced misery.
I'll flip a coin when I'm entering in my choices in the Keep, I guess.
I am not sure whether I should spare the Warden's clan or put them out of their writer-induced misery.
I'll flip a coin when I'm entering in my choices in the Keep, I guess.
Seems about right.
Tomayto, tomahto. The mirror is the cause. Messing around with things you don't fully understand will get you in trouble. Reconstructing the Mirror is more trouble than Maretheri judges it to be worth.
Tomayto, tomahto. The mirror is the cause. Messing around with things you don't fully understand will get you in trouble. Reconstructing the Mirror is more trouble than Maretheri judges it to be worth.
Marethari never bothered to understand or study the Mirror. Only Merrill did.
Marethari never bothered to understand or study the Mirror. Only Merrill did.
Because it was an evil tainted thing that would have allowed an ancient pride demon into the world?
Because it was an evil tainted thing that would have allowed an ancient pride demon into the world?
The Mirror was CLEANSED of the Taint. And Marethari had nothing but an unsupported unsubstantiated claim that the Mirror would've allowed a demon into the world, especially when its been effectively cut off from the Fade and imprisoned for so long. And then she released it and gave it a host body, endangering the world.
The Mirror was CLEANSED of the Taint
Because the last time that happened, it stuck right.
Honestly? Its about like my view on Fiona, i expect her taint to resurface with a vengeance, Magisters combated the blight for centuries, you think they would have restored the Imperium to what it was, and not have massive swathes of it STILL blighted today if it could be fixed with blood magic.
And Marethari had nothing but an unsupported unsubstantiated claim that the Mirror would've allowed a demon into the world,
The same thing you are using to defend it? At least the elf in game, is the elf in game, and not the fan speculating about it on the forum.
especially when its been effectively cut off from the Fade and imprisoned for so long.
Being cut off from the fade hasn't had any documented ill effects, considering several pride demons have been quite content to LINGER in the waking world, being apart from a host for so long obviously doesn't bother THEM much.
Beyond that, what documentation do you have to provide that it wouldn't have been dangerous had it escaped?
Because honestly from the first time i saw this defense by lob i found it humorous, okay so a demon's bargain taken in the waking world isn't a bargain apparently? It doesn't give the Demon power over the mage in question like it does in ALL other cases?
And then she released it and gave it a host body, endangering the world.
Before Merill could do it herself sure.
long story short, don't trust demons no matter how safe you think it is
The Mirror was CLEANSED of the Taint. And Marethari had nothing but an unsupported unsubstantiated claim that the Mirror would've allowed a demon into the world, especially when its been effectively cut off from the Fade and imprisoned for so long. And then she released it and gave it a host body, endangering the world.
People love to hate on Merrill for trying to restore parts of her culture by repairing the mirror, but she had it for 10 years and nothing went wrong. The only reason anything bad happened was because the Keeper didnt have faith in her.
People love to hate on Merrill for trying to restore parts of her culture by repairing the mirror, but she had it for 10 years and nothing went wrong. The only reason anything bad happened was because the Keeper didnt have faith in her.
Or some people just don't trust a mirror that was once tainted and could possibly release a powerful Pride Demon
Or some people just don't trust a mirror that was once tainted and could possibly release a powerful Pride Demon
its not like blood magic was involved....
I like Merrill, I really do; however, I am with Marethari about the mirror. I wouldn't have trusted it. Not after the taint in that mirror caused the lives of two people. Merrill had good intentions with wanting to get some of her history back, but to use blood magic to get it cleansed only spelled out trouble. And if Marethari didn't do what she did, chances are, MERRILL would've been the one possessed and Hawke would be forced to kill her. Marethari did what she did to protect Merrill. Much like the one Dalish Elf said: Marethari loved Merrill more than the clan. Is it fair to blame Merrill solely?...Not really no. But is Marethari solely to blame because she didn't help? No, because she had reasons not to trust the mirror.
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