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[Vit246]

Snip.

I don't remember anything about the Taint resurfacing unless I missed it somewhere in the games or outside sources. Besides, the cleansed Mirror was in Merrill's possession for years and she was never corrupted.

 

Marethari never bothered to try to explain her claims to Merrill or to the player. If she knew better, she should've benn able to convince us.

 

I don't understand your next response because it honestly seems vague and all over the place and I'm only gonna address the part about the bargain. We don't know if Merrill actually struck a dangerous bargain with the demon for blood magic in exchange for releasing it. We don't even know what the terms of the bargain was. All we do know is that she learned blood magic from the demon. It doesn't have to mean she struck a bargain. It doesn't mean she didn't lie her way to a bargain. And it doesn't mean that she didn't manage to betray and trick a freebie out of a demon like the Warden did with the Desire Demon. Bargains are not absolute in the DA setting.

 

I call BS on the last one. What makes you think she was gonna do that? Merrill was only gonna talk to it for about the second or third time. She's not stupid or weak-willed enough to release it or help it that way for any reason. And she brings in backup. You underestimate her too much. And don't even mention that Feynriel Quest, alright? EVERY companion failed the willpower check b/c the plot demanded it.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't remember anything about the Taint resurfacing unless I missed it somewhere in the games or outside sources. Besides, the cleansed Mirror was in Merrill's possession for years and she was never corrupted.

 

 

Play the bloody Dalish orgin in DAO then, magic stalled the taint, but it still came back.

 

Hence why i call BS on "removing it" better mages then Merril tried and they had blood magic as well.

We don't know if Merrill actually struck a dangerous bargain with the demon for blood magic in exchange for releasing it. We don't even know what the terms of the bargain was. All we do know is that she learned blood magic from the demon. It doesn't have to mean she struck a bargain.

 

Your seriously? You think Demons teach, For free?

 

In the Pansy prologue, a demon MEANT to help you, doesn't teach you for free.

 

When you encounter a demon actually powerful enough to bother dealing with, it wants a possession contract on a boy's soul.

 

You are kidding if you think that a demon would offer up something for nothing, their entire existence resolves around power and battle, power and battle.

 

 

I call BS on the last one. What makes you think she was gonna do that? Merrill was only gonna talk to it for about the second or third time. She's not stupid or weak-willed enough to release it or help it that way for any reason. And she brings in backup. You underestimate her too much. And don't even mention that Feynriel Quest, alright? EVERY companion failed the willpower check b/c the plot demanded it.

 

She brought Hawke along for the sole purpose of KILLING her if she became possessed, obviously the demon had leeway over her if she wasn't going to trust herself to meet with the demon for a second time.

 

I don't underestimate her, i give her due.

 

She's a foolish child with delusions of deification.

[Johnny Shepard]

But Marethari must have realized that the clan would attack Merrill and that people would die because of what she did. Why didn't she tell Merrill and Hawke that she was sure there was a demon in the mirror? She only said it was dangerous and that it could corrupt people (something she told the whole clan with the result that Pol got so scared that he would rather face a monster than Merrill).

 

And I think there are a hidden reason Merrill wanted to fix the mirror. She wanted to find out what happened to the boy that disappeared. My guess is that he was someone special to her or why else would she take such a risk?

[Steelcan]

 

I don't understand your next response because it honestly seems vague and all over the place and I'm only gonna address the part about the bargain. We don't know if Merrill actually struck a dangerous bargain with the demon for blood magic in exchange for releasing it. We don't even know what the terms of the bargain was. All we do know is that she learned blood magic from the demon. It doesn't have to mean she struck a bargain. It doesn't mean she didn't lie her way to a bargain. And it doesn't mean that she didn't manage to betray and trick a freebie out of a demon like the Warden did with the Desire Demon. Bargains are not absolute in the DA setting.

So what'd she do?  Buyhim off?  Sleep with him?  Was she rewarded for winning a Riddle Game?

 

A bargain is the most logical explanation given the circumstances

[Master Warder Z_]

So what'd she do?  Buyhim off?  Sleep with him?  Was she rewarded for winning a Riddle Game?

 

A bargain is the most logical explanation given the circumstances

 

 

Merril ships Pride Demon

[QueenofFereldan]

When I heard some of the unheard dialogue about the Dalish Elf, I think Merrill is still grieving the loss of the Dalish Elf and Tamlen. So if she can cleanse the mirror, she might get the answers she was seeking about what happened to them.

[Johnny Shepard]

So what'd she do?  Buyhim off?  Sleep with him?  Was she rewarded for winning a Riddle Game?

 

A bargain is the most logical explanation given the circumstances

She clearly said in the game that she planed the deal she made for hours to make sure there was no loophole the demon could use against her so I don't think she sold her soul to him. He gave it to her more or less for free and she knew it was too easy and that's why she had Hawke with her because she knew that she couldn't trust the demon.

[QueenofFereldan]

Wasn't she planning to release the demon to talk with him about the mirror, and she figured that the demon may try to possess her?

[Steelcan]

She clearly said in the game that she planed the deal she made for hours to make sure there was no loophole the demon could use against her so I don't think she sold her soul to him. He gave it to her more or less for free and she knew it was too easy and that's why she had Hawke with her because she knew that she couldn't trust the demon.

the same dimwit who is completely ignorant of the dangers of Kirkwall at night, templars, etc.... managed to outfox a demon, that feeds on pride

 

 

forgive my skepticism

[Johnny Shepard]

When I heard some of the unheard dialogue about the Dalish Elf, I think Merrill is still grieving the loss of the Dalish Elf and Tamlen. So if she can cleanse the mirror, she might get the answers she was seeking about what happened to them.

Yeah. If Hawke romance (or maybe even if not) her she tells him she did it at first for Tamlen, to find out what happened. But later it became about what they had lost. I also think she said something about that Marethari didn't seam to care and her refusal to help just made Merrill that more determent to do it.

[Steelcan]

Wasn't she planning to release the demon to talk with him about the mirror, and she figured that the demon may try to possess her?

"I need help from a demon to restore an ancient piece of magic that everyone I have ever met has said to drop like a bad habit, so I should let him out"

[AresKeith]

Wasn't she planning to release the demon to talk with him about the mirror, and she figured that the demon may try to possess her?

 

I remember her telling she wanted to bring Hawke in-case something happens, I could be wrong though

[QueenofFereldan]

I remember her wanting Hawke there in case things went wrong, but I am trying to remember why she was going to the demon again about the mirror.

 

But again, Marethari had good reasons not wanting to care...it was the exact same mirror that took two of her clanspeople. So what is more important: a mirror that already claimed two of her people and may claim more, or her clan and her duty to protect them. Could she have handled it differently? Yes, but you can't blame her solely. Merrill had to have known the consequences with blood magic to know that it would end with someone dying. Blood magic ALWAYS come with a price.

[Johnny Shepard]

Wasn't she planning to release the demon to talk with him about the mirror, and she figured that the demon may try to possess her?

Right. Forgot about that. That was the bargain. She released him and he helped her with blood magic. And since it took so long I guess she didn't plan on holding up her end of the bargain until she was forced to. Hawke was there to help kill the demon when she didn't kneed him anymore or if he tried to trick her and possess her.

 

the same dimwit who is completely ignorant of the dangers of Kirkwall at night, templars, etc.... managed to outfox a demon, that feeds on pride

 

 

forgive my skepticism

She's a Keeper in training. She's a geek. She knows everything about lore, the fade and demons but that doesn't mean she knows about human cities and the dangers there, the social part of much more about Templars then that she sometimes comes to search for mages. She knows as much about the human city life as a human knows of the Dalish life.

[Johnny Shepard]

I remember her wanting Hawke there in case things went wrong, but I am trying to remember why she was going to the demon again about the mirror.

 

But again, Marethari had good reasons not wanting to care...it was the exact same mirror that took two of her clanspeople. So what is more important: a mirror that already claimed two of her people and may claim more, or her clan and her duty to protect them. Could she have handled it differently? Yes, but you can't blame her solely. Merrill had to have known the consequences with blood magic to know that it would end with someone dying. Blood magic ALWAYS come with a price.

The same also goes for Marethari who should have known that there was a price for her making a deal with the demon to spare Merrill. That it could cost her the entire clan. In most cases (unless you know what to do to prevent it), Hawke is forced to kill the clan and it is mostly because Marethari made the deal without anybody knowing it and because she had told that Merrill was dangerous and not to be trusted.

[Vereesa]

the same dimwit who is completely ignorant of the dangers of Kirkwall at night, templars, etc.... managed to outfox a demon, that feeds on pride

 

 

forgive my skepticism

 

She spent her entire life living with her people. Kirkwall was completely unfamiliar to her. Its like making fun of Oghren for the fact that he isnt extremely knowledgeable about the Fade. Just because you are unfamiliar with one thing does not make you ignorant when it comes to completely unrelated subjects. 

[QueenofFereldan]

Because of this: Marethari loved Merrill dearly and was willing to make that sacrifice. Even the Dalish Elf mentioned that Marethari loved Merrill more than the clan to make that sacrifice.

 

Either way, neither one are solely at fault, but neither are innocent completely. Merrill needs to share some of that blame, but Marethari hadn't helped the situation completely. That's why I liked the rivalry with her...to show that you don't show love for the blood magic and her choice over this one mirror.

[Johnny Shepard]

With the fade, i think anything is possible, even the resurrection of a important dead character, also remember Bioware has their own Cannon (Lore) from the Dev's play through and according to their tweeter post from Feb. 2012, they stated the warden dead, was danish, and elven clan lived in DA:2, so with that said, even though our game they may be dead, their game they live, which is what we play after in DA:I. 

I'm sorry, but the daves have a cannon and the Warden was danish?

Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself. Cannon is the thing that go boom, it's canon. And danish is the people in Scandinavian country Denmark (I live in Sweden, next to it).

 

Not trying to make fun of you, it just... sounded so funny. I'm horrible at spelling things like that too.

[Johnny Shepard]

Because of this: Marethari loved Merrill dearly and was willing to make that sacrifice. Even the Dalish Elf mentioned that Marethari loved Merrill more than the clan to make that sacrifice.

 

Either way, neither one are solely at fault, but neither are innocent completely. Merrill needs to share some of that blame, but Marethari hadn't helped the situation completely. That's why I liked the rivalry with her...to show that you don't show love for the blood magic and her choice over this one mirror.

I agree on most of what you say. They are both as much to blame, in the end.

[Vereesa]

Because of this: Marethari loved Merrill dearly and was willing to make that sacrifice. Even the Dalish Elf mentioned that Marethari loved Merrill more than the clan to make that sacrifice.

 

If Marethari loved Merrill so much, why didnt she support her? Why did she spend nearly 10 years telling the clan lies about her, until they were so terrified of her that they would rather face death than even talk to her?

[Steelcan]

If Marethari loved Merrill so much, why didnt she support her? Why did she spend nearly 10 years telling the clan lies about her, until they were so terrified of her that they would rather face death than even talk to her?

Because it was a fool's errand to begin with

[QueenofFereldan]

She wasn't telling lies about her, she told them the hard truth that she was using blood magic. The clan was the one who took it further. Plus, Marethari kept begging her to come back. She believed that mirror to be a threat and didn't want anything bad to happen, but she is to throw away that thought for a loved one? What would've happened if she helped and something bad DID happen?

[Johnny Shepard]

If Marethari loved Merrill so much, why didnt she support her? Why did she spend nearly 10 years telling the clan lies about her, until they were so terrified of her that they would rather face death than even talk to her?

Not forgetting that they in the end would throw away their lives in trying to kill Merrill believing she was evil. Marethari did many strange things and many wrong things, just like Merrill did. She should have realized how the clan would have reacted. I know she loved Merrill the most but did she really love her that much that she was willing to see the whole clan be doomed for her?

[QueenofFereldan]

...Probably. Or maybe she could've done it as well to protect the clan from the demon too?