484 réponses à ce sujet

[Chari]

Oh yes. That clearly gives you a better point. Bravo.

Again these are fictional people. Not to mention I suppose you have an issue with murder in general? You do realize your PC kills people by the truckload right? You have such an issue with things like that why are you playing these games? Your companions are also murders and slavers but I guess that's okay cause they're characters right? But ra forbid a player act similar to them for the sake of gameplay? Cause ra forbid.

Also with rape jokes you don't know who around you has been raped. Rape victims don't exactly wear a sign on our head saying such. You're a lot likelier to tell at tasteless rape joke in the vicinity of a rape victim than you are to to make a genocide joke in front of a victim of that crime.

Also why would I say genocide isn't a real problem? It is. A serious one. But trying to compare a rape joke to killing a fictional race in a fictional game (and one clan at that) and acting as though this is some great crime is just...

The sad thing is I wouldn't be so bothered if your type didn't try to insult someone personally about what they do in a video game. I wouldn't need to make the don't know the difference between reality and fiction if you lot managed to keep your insults to yourself.

As far as I recall my PCs kill only in self-defense. I try to avoid pointless violence against defenceless and innocent as much as I can.

Rape joked are not okay even if there is no victims around. They're just not okay in general. Neither in RL nor in fiction
Just because these are fictional characters it doesn't make the genocide not genocide. By such logic if a player in a game raped an elf it is okay because the elf is a fictional character. But hey, both genocide and rape are real life problems which should not be laughed at. Fiction or not
Really, you started insulting people. I just pointed that out. Don't like their comments? Report and do not start a flame war. This thread is not about it
Now I am going to leave since wasting my time on a troll is not in my interests

[Ryzaki]

Merrill's clan may come back, but I don't think Merrill will be  a part of them.  Even if you don't kill them, Merrill's connection to her clan is pretty much irrevocably sundered after Marithari's death.

 

Oh I figured that would be the default.

 

For Merrill I'd rather what her final questioning beliefs conversation lead to be where she ended up. You could have her looking for more elven artifacts, helping the CEs or just sticking with Hawke. (I usually choose the CE option because CEs) So maybe she and Hawke can be involved in the CE bit of the plot of the Civil War (this is me assuming they have a part though. Which I hope is the case).

[TheJediSaint]

Oh I figured that would be the default.

 

For Merrill I'd rather what her final questioning beliefs conversation lead to be where she ended up. You could have her looking for more elven artifacts, helping the CEs or just sticking with Hawke. (I usually choose the CE option because CEs) So maybe she and Hawke can be involved in the CE bit of the plot of the Civil War (this is me assuming they have a part though. Which I hope is the case).

Pure speculation on my part, but I think if Merrill does come back, what's shes doing will be determined by two things.  First, did she smash the Mirror or not?  Second, was she romanced by Hawke or not?

[TK514]

Some speculated the clan might have been rebuilt because some might have stayed in Ferelden

 

I can see this, but not if they stayed in Ferelden.  With the devs confirming the failure of the Dalish boon, or at least it having no effect on the Hinterlands now belonging to Redcliffe, it would probably have behooved them to move on once again.

 

Though, that makes me wonder.  Zathrian's clan moved into Werewolf Country on a regular basis.  Where were they the rest of the time?  Ferelden is, geographically, something of a cul-de-sac.  The only ways out are over mountains or by sea, and I don't really see the Dalish being keen on regular sea travel.

 

That means they have to go over the Frostbacks any time they want to move in or out of Ferelden.  Seems like a lot of effort, and danger, to hang out in dogland for a couple of months a year.

[Zanallen]

Is there a magically blooming meadow that spews out elves that i'm not aware of?

 

I was under the impression that in DA they were outnumbered by the other races a great deal, hence why the Dalish are a minority of a minority.

 

Though i suppose you could call one lady, a clan if you want to...

 

I wouldn't but that's me.

 

Don't be silly. Elves grow on trees. Male elves implant their pollen into female elves in order to fertilize the seeds. The female elf then deposits the seed into the ground much like a turtle burying her eggs. After many years, the tree sprouts and eventually grows to bear fruit: new baby elves.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

That would make sense. I'd hope they got along better with the new ruler (maybe if Alistair is king? Even if Anora's queen with him?) so there could be differences there? Maybe more trusting of humans (not much for dalish but somewhat) and so on.

 

I'd like to think in some cases a Dalish Warden could give both sides (humans and Dalish) a firm talking to if hostilities started to rise as he/she is more or less trusted by both. 

 

Mind you, that's what I would have liked to think, but according to Alistair the whole Dalish land thing went south anyway, so I guess that didn't work. 

[Ryzaki]

As far as I recall my PCs kill only in self-defense. I try to avoid pointless violence against defenceless and innocent as much as I can.

Rape joked are not okay even if there is no victims around. They're just not okay in general. Neither in RL nor in fiction
Just because these are fictional characters it doesn't make the genocide not genocide. By such logic if a player in a game raped an elf it is okay because the elf is a fictional character. But hey, both genocide and rape are real life problems which should not be laughed at. Fiction or not
Really, you started insulting people. I just pointed that out. Don't like their comments? Report and do not start a flame war. This thread is not about it
Now I am going to leave since wasting my time on a troll is not in my interests

 

As Hawke you work for a crimelord or a mercenary. Now I can see avoiding killing an innocent with Athn (I can't spell her name) but with the red Iron? Just to get in you kill a dude you had nothing to do with. So you're telling me you only sided with Athenriel? You let Marjoline go? You let the slaver in the alienage go? You let Loghain's stooges go? What did you do during the Mercy Quest?

 

Did you recruit Isabela? You do realize she starts fights with several people that are only defending themselves right? Or is it okay if a companion starts it?

 

No it's not. You really don't see how a not uncommon crime is seen as less acceptable to joke about than a rarer one? You really don't understand this?

 

Also maybe you should read the thread. The insults started a few pages back. But I guess it doesn't count as insults if you agree with it right?

 

??? And it was so hard to do that from the beginning?

[Lulupab]

Maybe not every single one of them dies if the player decides to kill them so they can be in Inquisition regardless of anything, albeit in much lesser number if many of them were killed in DA2.

[Ryzaki]

Pure speculation on my part, but I think if Merrill does come back, what's shes doing will be determined by two things.  First, did she smash the Mirror or not?  Second, was she romanced by Hawke or not?

 

Hopefully. I'd want my Hawke to at least stick with his/her LI even if the Warden vanished off to who knows where XD

 

 

I'd like to think in some cases a Dalish Warden could give both sides (humans and Dalish) a firm talking to if hostilities started to rise as he/she is more or less trusted by both. 

 

Mind you, that's what I would have liked to think, but according to Alistair the whole Dalish land thing went south anyway, so I guess that didn't work. 

 

You would think so. The CE warden was able to do that for the riots with the elven bann apparently (if he/she is bann).

 

Sadly I guess the humans most likely didn't want to hear it. What's weird is they'll let a CE be a Teryn without a peep tho. How does that work.

 

 

I can see this, but not if they stayed in Ferelden.  With the devs confirming the failure of the Dalish boon, or at least it having no effect on the Hinterlands now belonging to Redcliffe, it would probably have behooved them to move on once again.

 

Though, that makes me wonder.  Zathrian's clan moved into Werewolf Country on a regular basis.  Where were they the rest of the time?  Ferelden is, geographically, something of a cul-de-sac.  The only ways out are over mountains or by sea, and I don't really see the Dalish being keen on regular sea travel.

 

That means they have to go over the Frostbacks any time they want to move in or out of Ferelden.  Seems like a lot of effort, and danger, to hang out in dogland for a couple of months a year.

 

Ah true I keep forgetting about that.

 

Maybe Zath's magic helped them with it? Only way I can figure.

[TK514]

Maybe not every single one of them dies if the player decides to kill them so they can be in Inquisition regardless of anything, albeit in much lesser number if many of them were killed in DA2.

It is always possible someone was away from camp, otherwise...eh.  I got the impression that by the time Act 3 rolls around, the Clan is already dying as a social group.  Merethari's obsession with Merrill, the death of the halla, the death of their hunters, both to darkspawn and to the varterral, all point towards a failing clan.  Then there are the more overt signs, like Master Ilen telling his apprentice to pack up because they're leaving, regardless of what the clan does.

 

The death of Merethari and the ambush on Sundermount are really just the final breaths.

[Ryzaki]

It is always possible someone was away from camp, otherwise...eh.  I got the impression that by the time Act 3 rolls around, the Clan is already dying as a social group.  Merethari's obsession with Merrill, the death of the halla, the death of their hunters, both to darkspawn and to the varterral, all point towards a failing clan.  Then there are the more overt signs, like Master Ilen telling his apprentice to pack up because they're leaving, regardless of what the clan does.

 

The death of Merethari and the ambush on Sundermount are really just the final breaths.

 

crap I missed that.

 

Some of the clan had left before Marethari's death?

 

So maybe we will see some of them regardless.

[TK514]

crap I missed that.

 

Some of the clan had left before Marethari's death?

 

So maybe we will see some of them regardless.

 

No, they don't make it out.  He's planning to leave, then the ambush happens.  If you walk down the mountain instead of fast travel, everyone remaining follows the rest of the clan in suicide by PC, including Ilen.

[Ryzaki]

No, they don't make it out.  He's planning to leave, then the ambush happens.  If you walk down the mountain instead of fast travel, everyone remaining follows the rest of the clan in suicide by PC, including Ilen.

 

Why.

 

That just makes that scene more stupid than it already was. *shakes head* Idiot ball til death. You'd think they'd have enough survival instincts to leave well enough alone but nope.

 

I just wish the choice to call them off wasn't so silly sounding "I"ll make sure she never does this again." really only works for my aggressive rivalrymance Hawke. None of the rest of my Hawkes would say that =/

[TheJediSaint]

Why.

 

That just makes that scene more stupid than it already was. *shakes head* Idiot ball til death. You'd think they'd have enough survival instincts to leave well enough alone but nope.

 

I just wish the choice to call them off wasn't so silly sounding "I"ll make sure she never does this again." really only works for my aggressive rivalrymance Hawke. None of the rest of my Hawkes would say that =/

I don't know.  I thought it was an extra tragic cherry on top of the double fudge sundae of tragedy that was Merrill's quest line.

[TK514]

Why.

 

That just makes that scene more stupid than it already was. *shakes head* Idiot ball til death. You'd think they'd have enough survival instincts to leave well enough alone but nope.

 

I just wish the choice to call them off wasn't so silly sounding "I"ll make sure she never does this again." really only works for my aggressive rivalrymance Hawke. None of the rest of my Hawkes would say that =/

 

I agree.  It's a terrible dialog choice.  The only way to save the clan is to throw Merrill under the bus, which makes no sense for a Hawke who is her friend/friendmance.

 

 

I don't know.  I thought it was an extra tragic cherry on top of the double fudge sundae of tragedy that was Merrill's quest line.

 

It suggests that the clan went up there with full knowledge that they were probably going to murder Merrill and Company.  The fact that Merrill and Hawke come down the mountain instead of the ambush party tells the clan everything they need to know.  And really, at that point, the Clan is dead, even without further violence.  There's no way they were going to survive as a social unit after those kinds of losses.  The best they could have hoped for was that another clan might take in the strays.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I don't know.  I thought it was an extra tragic cherry on top of the double fudge sundae of tragedy that was Merrill's quest line.

 

Who needs that much tragedy in their diet though

[Ryzaki]

I don't know.  I thought it was an extra tragic cherry on top of the double fudge sundae of tragedy that was Merrill's quest line.

 

Just felt like more idiot balls being held by the dalish for me. =/

 

If the Dalish end up waging a war against the Orlesians cause they found a technology that they feel will win them the war then the tables are suddenly turned and we can choose to either have them win over the Orlesians or have the Orlesians wipe them out I'll probably crack up from the perfect mirror to the Quarians. I doubt that'll happen but if it does I'll lol hard.

 

I agree.  It's a terrible dialog choice.  The only way to save the clan is to throw Merrill under the bus, which makes no sense for a Hawke who is her friend/friendmance.

 

Doesn't even make much sense for a rival unless they're aggressive. "I'll make sure Merrill never hurts anyone again." is a meh followup to "she died to protect you cause she loved you Merrill." in the cave.

 

Who needs that much tragedy in their diet though

 

Someone. Somewhere. XD

 

I don't mind tragedy but that felt more stupid tragedy because stupidity than natural crap happening cause sometimes life sucks.

[TheJediSaint]

Who needs that much tragedy in their diet though

Hey, there's a reason Ned Stark's my favorite Song of Ice and FIre character.

[Deebo305]

Wasn't it possible (if not encouraged ) to slaughter Merrill's entire clan? How are they back for Inquisition?

Killinf them or sparing them is up to player and both are easily accomplished, they're always alive in my playthroughs

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Just felt like more idiot balls being held by the dalish for me. =/

 

If the Dalish end up waging a war against the Orlesians cause they found a technology that they feel will win them the war then the tables are suddenly turned and we can choose to either have them win over the Orlesians or have the Orlesians wipe them out I'll probably crack up from the perfect mirror to the Quarians. I doubt that'll happen but if it does I'll lol hard.

 

 

 

Dalish leader: Muahaha! We've got the filthy shems on a the ropes now! None can defeat our maguffin of greater slaughter +3!

Gaspard: Cousin you know how I really don't particularly like you and plan on taking your throne?

Celene: Of course.

Gaspard: Do you wanna team up and put down these filthy Dalish first?

Celene: That sounds wonderful!

Gaspard: Capital!

 

*ten minutes later*

Dalish Leader: Please help us noble Inquisitor!!!

                                  

Cheesecake Inquisitor:...Nope.

[Dean_the_Young]

I agree.  It's a terrible dialog choice.  The only way to save the clan is to throw Merrill under the bus, which makes no sense for a Hawke who is her friend/friendmance.

 

I believe that was the point.

 

One of the dominant themes of the friendship route was that you not only agreed with Merrill, but were willing to believe her assurances that she both knew what she was doing and was prepared to take responsibility for what happened, whatever it was, among which was that her path would only affect her. When you take the options that end up killing the clan, you are taking the dialogue options in which you let Merrill try to explain and take responsibility- which, along with much of the character arc to date, results in consequences and reactions that completely blindside her as befitting her fatal flaw and its impacts when she so misunderstood what the targets of her salvation complex actually wanted.

 

In contrast, one of the big in-your-face themes of the rivalry arc was, well, that you didn't trust her to be responsible and do the right thing: the rivalry arc on ideological terms (as opposed to just being a jerk terms) was a steady stream of Hawke cautioning Merrill against following her path, refusing to enable it, and otherwise not trusting Merrill's ability to take responsibility for all the consequences. That meshes incredibly well with the dialogue that doesn't get the clan killed, which reflects that attitude by taking responsibility over and away from Merill and promising the Clan she won't be allowed to continue her path. That she, in effect, isn't trusted and going to be allowed to be self-responsible (which the Clan already deeply believes is the problem).

 

 

The choice that saves or destroys the clan was never a choice about saving or destroying the clan: it was a choice and consequence regarding the themes of the character arc and the friendship/rivalry mentalities and the associated consequences for Merrill's autonomy and it's results. It's not framed or cast in terms of whether the clan dies or not- not in the sense of how most Big Choices foreshadow their consequences of binary choices.

 

It was a choice and consequence regarding the themes of the character arc, rather than a choice and consequence of the relative merits of the outcomes (which is why the decision point isn't even framed in terms of the outcomes). It worked, and was probably intended, to reflect the rivalry dynamic of the arc in that Merrill needed to stop (or be stopped) on her path of constantly escalating and costly reactions to her actions before even more people got hurt. 'Throwing Merrill under the bus' is taking responsibility away from her, which reflects that point and shows the result. Letting Merrill continue on her self-chosen path lets her be judged as responsible for the consequences, and is reflected in that as well.

[BioFan (Official)]

Merrill modeled in Frostbyte 3 plus Eva Myles' voice.  I am so very down with that.

 

Eve Myles rocked the socks off that role

[frylock23]

@Dean_the_Young Well said!

 

Merrill is pretty much always alive in my games because she's always mad at me because I never trust her motives with the Eluvian and always try to talk her out of what she's doing with it. In pretty much all of my games except the one where I gave her her way, she is a full on rival by the end and the Dalish live because I just can't trust her. My characters never trust blood magic in general, and when it comes to the scene on the Mountain, they tend to be mindful of Marethari's wishes that we look after Merrill. To me, it does mean that we are to take responsibility for her. Everything that happened is a result of our not being able to talk Merrill down from her intended course of action. Of course, if Marethari couldn't do it ... I have no idea why she thought Hawke would be any better at it.

[Nefla]

I really hope we don't have to see Merrill again or that if the possibility is there, then we have the option to mark her dead in the keep. I didn't kill the Dalish clan the one time I did that quest with Merrill and then on later playthroughs I just ignored Merrill completely and was a jerk to her the times she broke into my house to commune with my dog or whatever. It would be cool to see the Dalish warden's clan again.