484 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I believe that was the point.

 

*snip*

 

 

Explained this way that's actually kind of clever.

 

I really hope we don't have to see Merrill again or that if the possibility is there, then we have the option to mark her dead in the keep. I didn't kill the Dalish clan the one time I did that quest with Merrill and then on later playthroughs I just ignored Merrill completely and was a jerk to her the times she broke into my house to commune with my dog or whatever. It would be cool to see the Dalish warden's clan again.

 

You probably can't tick her as being dead unless you side with the templars. (I'd assume the same is true in the reverse for Fenris).

 

 

Dalish leader: Muahaha! We've got the filthy shems on a the ropes now! None can defeat our maguffin of greater slaughter +3!

Gaspard: Cousin you know how I really don't particularly like you and plan on taking your throne?

Celene: Of course.

Gaspard: Do you wanna team up and put down these filthy Dalish first?

Celene: That sounds wonderful!

Gaspard: Capital!

 

*ten minutes later*

Dalish Leader: Please help us noble Inquisitor!!!

                                  

Cheesecake Inquisitor:...Nope.

 

XD

 

I'm just hoping we can learn the past dalish were just as scummy as the rest of the civilizations. They just didn't have the power to back it up like the rest did.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I didn't think the Merrill choice was well constructed either. Friendship or Rivalry, my Hawkes didn't really care about how Merrill would feel about what I said about her. They only cared about getting out of that situation without the need for violence, and in a volatile situation where some emotional Dalish are about to learn about the death of their Keeper, saying "OK, it was my fault" seems like the dialogue choice most likely to get them to try to kill us all.

 

I'm just hoping we can learn the past dalish were just as scummy as the rest of the civilizations. They just didn't have the power to back it up like the rest did.

 

That's completely unnecessary. Most here already seem to consider them worse than almost any other civilization in Thedas.

[Dean_the_Young]

Explained this way that's actually kind of clever.

 

 

Bioware having good writers and clever writing?

 

Perish the thought!

 

(With a bit to anyone who doesn't hear the tongue in cheek.)

[CrimsonN7]

Ooooooooooh sweet!

 

My canon warden is a Dalish she-elf and my fem Hawke romanced Merrill. This news if true is pretty cool. I'll just have to go back and not wipe out her clan, been so long since I played DA2 I sorta dropped the ball on that one. Not gonna import that option into the Keep, don't think my Warden would take kindly to my Hawke for wiping out her clan.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

That's completely unnecessary. Most here already seem to consider them worse than anyone almost other civilization in Thedas.

 

Who here argues they're as bad or worse than Tevinter and the Qunari?

 

Most of the time it's 'as bad as Orlais', which is to say they weren't so different. Which, when you consider the banality of evil that makes Orlais a standard of evil, is more about moral equivalence than moral exceptionalism.

[Ryzaki]

That's completely unnecessary. Most here already seem to consider them worse than anyone almost other civilization in Thedas.

 

Who is this most?

 

And it may unnecessary for you sure. Doesn't stop it from being something I would like to see.

 

 

Bioware having good writers and clever writing?

 

Perish the thought!

 

(With a bit to anyone who doesn't hear the tongue in cheek.)

 

To be fair DA2 had already done a fair bit of tragedy porn. Hardly our fault we saw more of it and went "Oh come on."

[TheJediSaint]

Bioware having good writers and clever writing?

 

Perish the thought!

 

(With a bit to anyone who doesn't hear the tongue in cheek.)

Like I said, I thought the entire sequence was just an extra bit of potential tragedy to round out a very, very bad day for Merrill. 

[TheJediSaint]

That's completely unnecessary. Most here already seem to consider them worse than anyone almost other civilization in Thedas.

What I see is a lot of people saying that the Dalish aren't better than the City Elves.

[Dean_the_Young]

Like I said, I thought the entire sequence was just an extra bit of potential tragedy to round out a very, very bad day for Merrill. 

 

I remember the first time I played through it, it had a very surreal feel. I really couldn't believe it was happening- it was such a Big Consequence of a seemingly minor dialogue, and while it made sense I had a hard time believing it was actually happening. Bioware, giving a context in which the kind/sympathetic action led to a massacre?

 

Hearing Merrill go on about how it was a dream, a terrible nightmare, really caught my feel at that moment.

 

Who is this most?

 

And it may unnecessary for you sure. Doesn't stop it from being something I would like to see.

 

I don't even 'want' to see the Dales as exceptionally bad- I just expect to see them as far from the utopian imagery presented by the Dalish. If the Dales were a liberal, non-authoritarian government with religious tolerance and othere outstanding (for Thedas) practices, I'd eat my hat.

[Ryzaki]

Hell I don't even see the CEs are innocent. Victims yes. But they perpetuate racism against humans as well. They have a damn good reason for it (you can only victimize someone so much before they snap back) but that's how it is. And it's sadly sensible.

 

Edit: This is simply in regards to human/elf relationships being seen in each culture before someone jumps down my throat. I'm well aware of the power difference meaning it's not as bad. I'm not sure why some people equate not innocent = guiltier than the other party. I'm well aware humans (particularly those in power that make the laws) are the wrong ones in this situation.

 

I just hope humans and elves alike in time can drop the nonsense and form together to do what they should be doing...discriminating against any fool not from their country

[Lenimph]

My Hawke just told the elves what she knew they wanted to hear. I followed the friendship path but you could tell that if you praised her or let her handle the situation at that moment it wasn't going to work at well because they don't trust her.

I wouldn't really call it throwing her under the bus...

[Ryzaki]

I don't even 'want' to see the Dales as exceptionally bad- I just expect to see them as far from the utopian imagery presented by the Dalish. If the Dales were a liberal, non-authoritarian government with religious tolerance and othere outstanding (for Thedas) practices, I'd eat my hat.

 

I don't see them as bad either. My issue is with the "HEY the CEs should join too and it'll be perfect for them cause the dalish are great!" Yeah no. The dalish lands would be great...for the dalish. The CEs need a different means of freedom (one that would take longer and a lot more hardship sadly) but different groups have different needs.

 

XD oh come on it's Thedas. No culture is gonna do that or if they do it'll be discovered they have a horde of slaves working underground that they feed to a volcano daily.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hell I don't even see the CEs are innocent. Victims yes. But they perpetuate racism against humans as well. They have a damn good reason for it (you can only victimize someone so much before they snap back) but that's how it is. And it's sadly sensible.

 

I just hope humans and elves alike in time can drop the nonsense and form together to do what they should be doing...discriminating against any fool not from their country

 

I have long said that the path to Equality for the City Elves lies over the smoking corpses of the Dalish!

[TheJediSaint]

I remember the first time I played through it, it had a very surreal feel. I really couldn't believe it was happening- it was such a Big Consequence of a seemingly minor dialogue, and while it made sense I had a hard time believing it was actually happening. Bioware, giving a context in which the kind/sympathetic action led to a massacre?

 

Hearing Merrill go on about how it was a dream, a terrible nightmare, really caught my feel at that moment.

 

It surprised the hell out of me, that's for sure.  But the more I played it and the more I thought about it, the more I liked it.  Mary Kirby is a good, if absolutely ruthless, writer.

[Ryzaki]

I have long said that the path to Equality for the City Elves lies over the smoking corpses of the Dalish!

 

Nah.

 

I think they'd be fine if they went their separate ways. The CEs culture is simply closer to human culture than it is to the dalish. (I'm not saying no CEs could join the Dalish it would work for some. But I'm seeing that as liable to be a minority. Particularly if the dalish had decent rights among their human counterparts).

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Who here argues they're as bad or worse than Tevinter and the Qunari?

 

Most of the time it's 'as bad as Orlais', which is to say they weren't so different. Which, when you consider the banality of evil that makes Orlais a standard of evil, is more about moral equivalence than moral exceptionalism.

 

I did say "almost" any others. But I'm pretty sure I've seen people suggest that the Dalish are just like Tevinter magisters, only weaker or stupid or something.

 

Who is this most?

 

And it may unnecessary for you sure. Doesn't stop it from being something I would like to see.

 

 

 

To be fair DA2 had already done a fair bit of tragedy porn. Hardly our fault we saw more of it and went "Oh come on."

 

As someone who's argued a lot on and against both sides of debates like Orlais vs the Dales or Dalish vs humans, I find lately I spend the overwhelming majority my time in them arguing against the idea that being racist and evil and killing humans is central to being a Dalish Elf. Which is funny because in the past the opposite was true.

 

Enough people already act like the Dalish Clans are the designated villains, especially in light of The Masked Empire.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

What I see is a lot of people saying that the Dalish aren't better than the City Elves.

 

I've seen almost no-one say the Dalish are better than the City Elves. But I've seen a LOT of people say that City Elves are better than the Dalish Elves.

[Seboist]

I have long said that the path to Equality for the City Elves lies over the smoking corpses of the Dalish!

 

City Elves would make good infiltrators and saboteurs against the Dalish.That'd be their surest bet for improving their social standing.

[Ryzaki]

As someone who's argued a lot on and against both sides of debates like Orlais vs the Dales or Dalish vs humans, I find lately I spend the overwhelming majority my time in them arguing against the idea that being racist and evil and killing humans is central to being a Dalish Elf. Which is funny because in the past the opposite was true.

 

Enough people already act like the Dalish Clans are the designated villains, especially in light of The Masked Empire.

 

More like the same 3 or 4 people that argue against each other in these threads from what I've seen. That's hardly most. I still remember 40 pages of Quarian and Geth debate being done by the same three people. 

 

Probably because they guessed the ancient elves weren't as innocent as previously believed.

[TheJediSaint]

I've seen almost no-one say the Dalish are better than the City Elves. But I've seen a LOT of people say that City Elves are better than the Dalish Elves.

 

First, that wasn't what I was saying.  Second, most of the suggestions see about making the lot of elves better almost always centers around the Dailish with the City Elves and an afterthought at best, or in a subservient roll at worst.

 

Most of the people I see criticizing the Dalish do it because they seem like the City Elves more.

[Ryzaki]

First, that wasn't what I was saying.  Second, most of the thing I see about making the lot of elves better almost always centers around the Dailish with the City Elves and an afterthought at best, or in a subservient roll at worst.

 

Most of the people I see criticizing the Dalish do it because they seem like the City Elves more.

 

Yeah I criticize because the dalish smug "last of the elvenhan." and flat ear remarks pissed me off.

 

I can't help it. I feel more empathy with CEs far more than dalish. The dalish can vanish from the setting and zero damns would be given from me. The CEs though? I'd probably stop playing

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yeah I criticize because the dalish smug "last of the elvenhan." and flat ear remarks pissed me off.

 

I can't help it. I feel more empathy with CEs far more than dalish. The dalish can vanish from the setting and zero damns would be given from me. The CEs though? I'd probably stop playing

 

Yes this! I might be a little more trollish about it at times but this is exactly my position on the Dalish problem.

[Lulupab]

Why did all the Elves went back to their old culture when they had the chance? Tevinter abused them and destroyed their culture on a bigger scale and for a longer time but with time all of them eventually went back to the old ways. I'm not saying isolation is good or by "old ways" I don't mean another Dales, I mean giving up human culture and adapting to their own. Its quite possible that many City Elves will join the Dalish once being a Dalish is not crime on Thedas and they are not looked down upon.

[x Raizer x]

I loved her!  Her sense of humor was awesome!

"The coast is wounded?  What happened?  Can it be healed?"

Plus I found her accent attractive for some reason.