109 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

No. If i'm bring honest she's the Dragon Age ][ companion I've romanced the most. 4 times compared to Isabela's 2 and Ander's, Fenris', and Sebastian's 1.

[tirnoney]

I never understood this reaction myself?

So the problem is that we're dealing with a youthful and highly quirky individual, who is incredibly childish at times, prone to stubborness when not getting their way and often comes across as slightly awkward and adorkable when it comes to romance?

That's strange, because you could use those same words to describe romancing Alistair in Origins...

Good point, but at least he looks like an adult. I still think Merril comes across as a lot more naive though. She was a more adult character in origins but i think they've retconed her to be a teenage love interest. Someone who's a huge contrast to Isabela.

[King Dragonlord]

I never understood this reaction myself?

 

So the problem is that we're dealing with a youthful and highly quirky individual, who is incredibly childish at times, prone to stubborness when not getting their way and often comes across as slightly awkward and adorkable when it comes to romance?

 

That's strange, because you could use those same words to describe romancing Alistair in Origins...

 

 

Its all about how it comes together. Alistair at least looks like an adult and is not nearly as naive as Merrill. Alistair's childish impulses are limited to his sense of humor. The only other times he gets emotional stem from seeing injustices. 

 

Merrill is in a much worse state. Her exile from her kind if recent. Alistair on the other hand has just found himself in his role as a Grey Warden, 

 

And then there's the way she says I love you. 

 

https://www.youtube....tpZJ0jSqk#t=158

[Sifr]

I must admit, Merrill's sudden declaration of love in that scene is all kinds of awkward... it's adorable, but it does come so far out of left field.

 

Although, in terms of awkward revelations, I think Anders' declaring that he's spent the past three years fantasising about being with Hawke probably either tops that or comes a close second. No wonder Justice doesn't approve and thinks that Hawke's a "distraction", he's spent years watching Anders ignore Mage freedom for "I'll be in my bunk".

 

[King Dragonlord]

I've seen that scene at least seven or eight times, friend. Being in bed and hovering over her a bit is not enough for me to call it sex. In my understanding of this scene, they only just kiss, caress, and cuddle. It's not like Miranda who is in the process of undressing in her scene, or Tali who states how she's medicated herself in preparation for the act.

 

And even if they did do the deed, I disagree that it would have been wrong of Shepard to do so. Jack for one thing is not new to sex. Even people who have been through sexual abuse can enjoy and be comfortable with it, there just may be some things they avoid doing in specific. And they're going to end up doing it anyway if they plan to get serious with each other as they clearly are by that point. Second, it's not unusual for people to cry after sex because they feel very happy and very much in love with their partner afterwards, especially those who've never experienced anything like those feelings before. Crying is not always bad. Sometimes letting those deep feelings out is a healing experience.

 

 

And let's take a look at the aftermath of this romance ...

 

 

... look at that picture and tell me that Jack is the exploited one in this relationship. She wears the pants and it's clear as day.

 

Jack may bear some deep, emotional scars, but she's not some unstable basket-case that you're making her out to be. She's mentally tough and very much capable of love (giving and receiving).

 

It may not be enough for YOU to call it sex but that was the intention of the scene. Bioware had caught flack for their sex scenes from concerned parents in ME1 and whether for that reason or another one ended up toning down all sex scenes in ME2 in favor of discretion shots. The sex in all these scenes is strongly implied but never shown, Tali removes her mask, Miranda starts to remove the top part of her jump suit, Jacks only got suspenders. 

 

Your shot is from at least six months after the sex scene. My argument is about the moment, not them having it at all. And yes crying sometimes happens during sex, but when your partner is already crying and they have issues with relationships and intimacy that are coming to the fore, I can't imagine hopping into bed at that moment, starting the sex with crying.

 

I'm not saying that the relationship as a whole is wrong or that them having sex is wrong. I'm just saying that was the wrong moment. Or at least it felt like the wrong moment to me. It felt like the moment to let her let it all out.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It may not be enough for YOU to call it sex but that was the intention of the scene.

 

Err, are you the one who wrote the scene that you claim to know the intention? Or do you know the guy who wrote it and have confirmation?

 

Because without that information, you cannot state that your interpretation of the scene *is* the writer intent any more than I can.

 

I know all other ME2 sex scenes were clothed because of ME1's controversy. That doesn't automatically make all clothed scenes sexual, though. And the difference between this and the other love scenes... Miranda will undress (if only a little) so that makes it obvious, Tali makes expressed preparations for having sex with a human, but then Jack comes in not only unexpected by Shepard, but for this scene to take place Shepard will have already turned down Jack's offer for him to "hit it and quit it." If Shepard did not jump on it then, then there's reason to believe he wouldn't rush into it now either. What's one more day's wait?

 

I also thought it was a sex scene just because... well, this is Mass Effect, so it has to be sex, right? But then someone on these forums pointed out it was not necessarily sexual in nature, and then thinking about it more, I found it made more sense to believe it wasn't. Not like such an interpretation contradicts this scene, either; it fits fine with what the audience is shown.

[Riven326]

I never found her physically attractive, so there's that. lol.

[FiveThreeTen]

I never romanced her. I don't think she is as naive as people paint her though. I found her adorable but the romance just didn't fit with any of my characters.

[dreamgazer]

 

 

[ATiBotka]

I feel uncomfortable romancing anyone in DA II.

[KaiserShep]

I never romanced her. I don't think she as is naive as people paint her though. I found her adorable but the romance just didn't fit with any of my characters.

To Merrill's credit, she is the one that makes the first move.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Merril deserve elven(especially mage and dalish) lover/husband who will aprove and support her researches for the sake of her kind, not some shem who live with mommy and uncle for more than 10 years and do not inprove his rerationship or get married, have a child and do many sh*t

 

Hawke does not deserve Merril

[congokong]

I feel uncomfortable romancing anyone in DA II.

I'll say that besides a rivaled Sebastian trying to be prince (which doesn't really count as a romance) none of Hawke's candidates are "normal." We have:

 

- a pirate ****

- an escaped elven slave living in a borrowed mansion who can't be bothered to remove the bodies

- an abomination

- a blood mage who looks like a 12 year old girl

 

 

Despite the radical circumstances, the DA:O romances felt more normal. They also developed better. All DA2 romances develop terribly. First you have 3 years before anyone makes a move. In Merrill/Anders case it goes from sex right to moving in or being dumped. No middle-ground. With Fenris he dumps you and neither him nor Hawke will speak of their encounter for another 3 years. Then (on rivalry) it goes from "we're not exactly friends Fenris" to "Nothing could be worse than the thought of living without you" a few sentences later. Then with Isabela she takes off for 3 years and comes back without any dialogue about her abandoning Hawke.

 

Also note in Fenris/Isabela's case you need 100% friendship/rivalry to cement a relationship with them; no easy task for newcomers to the game.

[Sir George Parr]

i was uncomfortable with it the one time, as it glitched and Merrill was invisible.

[KaiserShep]

Merril deserve elven(especially mage and dalish) lover/husband who will aprove and support her researches for the sake of her kind, not some shem who live with mommy and uncle for more than 10 years and do not inprove his rerationship or get married, have a child and do many sh*t

 

Hawke does not deserve Merril

 

 

Hawke didn't live with Gamlen for 10 years, and Hawke was the one that bought that house, so technically it was his/hers, not Leandra's. Marriage? Children? Who needs that mess anyway? The house already has Sandal.

[Ryzaki]

At first I was a bit "uh..." but I got over it.

 

Jack on the other hand. So much no.

[gottaloveme]

 

Review this and then see if you still feel that way. She cries, he moves to comfort, then with tears still in her eyes he puts her on the bed and goes to business. She likes sex but its always been a casual transaction with her. All these feelings being tangled up in it is confusing for her, you can see it in every scene leading up to this. This wasn't the right time to get into it. This was a time to hold her and be there for her.

 

Merrill and Hawkeboy together looked very much like this. I think it's her endearments that start to grate after awhile. Not too young but simply naive and vulnerable.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

The characters by themselves are not that bad, but the romances in DAII were nothing short of awful. I'd say Anders and Fenris were the most bearable, and those guys are both extremist freaks in their own ways, but at least you can have a normal conversation with them.

 

Merrill is just squick, a little girl who cuts herself and talks to demons, her babbeling in that high-pitched voice becomes a chore to follow, she is basically a woman-child. Isabela is the extreme opposite, I can't even look at her without feeling ill, and when she opens her mouth nothing but filth comes out. And I remember hating Ashley, haha, well in retrospect I LOVED that romance.

 

To quote Sebastian: ''I feel like I've bathed in filth that will never come off''

 

Speaking of which, I tried to romance him once, but it's way too convoluted and unrewarding to get anywhere with him. I can appreciate that they tried to do something for straight women, but it just fell flat. I wouldn't even call it a real romance, it's the same ''Shall I go be a Prince or a Priest'' whinefest.

[congokong]

@Spaghetti_Ninja

 

How would you define a "normal conversation"? I'd say the only characters who discuss real-life topics that could be considered normal are Sebastian and Isabela; struggling with life commitments and sex respectively. Fenris, Merrill, and Anders' conversations aren't that normal since magic, tainted mirrors, and abominations aren't actually real. Anders always whines about mage injustice; not to mention he struggles with being possessed. Fenris pointlessly bickers about magic even though magic isn't going away in the DA universe. Merrill goes on about working on her mirror being necessary although I dread thinking what she does for 6 years with that thing.

[dekarserverbot]

I think her romance arc is endearing. She's pretty much all alone in the world. Her and Hawke make a good duo.

 

Same here... but I felt that the entire DA2 was more a "date sim with the worst candidates" ever than an RPG

[BioWareM0d13]

 

Also, I don't think she's that young. Merrill was training to replace the Keeper of the Sabrae Clan. I got the impression that she was in her twenties or thereabouts.

 

It isn't that she is young. Obviously she was intended to be an adult character. Its that she has a naive, juvenile personality, paired with a character model that makes her almost look like a formless pre-teen. Her presentation makes the character seem a lot younger than she is supposed to be. That was a problem for some players, myself included.

 

I consider Merrill to be the worst romanceable character Bioware ever created.

[Ianamus]

The romance was mostly fine, but I had to skip through the romance scenes. I just couldn't find them either sweet or sexy, partly because Merrill looked a little too young but mostly because her anorexic-looking body was always twisting into incredibly unnatural positions. Particularly in that nightmare-inducing bed cuddling scene. 

 

Between that and Fenris not taking a single piece of clothing off throughout the entire romance I'm not exactly a major fan of DA:2's romance scenes. Even Tali's were more more romantic and erotic and we never even saw her face!

[calvinien]

I never understood this reaction myself?

 

So the problem is that we're dealing with a youthful and highly quirky individual, who is incredibly childish at times, prone to stubborness when not getting their way and often comes across as slightly awkward and adorkable when it comes to romance?

 

That's strange, because you could use those same words to describe romancing Alistair in Origins...

 

 But alistair doesn't have anime eyes.

 

It's worth keeping in mind that merrill is an adult. Not sure how old she is specifically, but she already got her vallaslin before the blight started. And when put in situations where she's comfortable, she sounds a lot more mature. She's just mystified by much of the human world. You see that during her companion quests, she can get downright snarky when dealing with Master Ilen, and she's the only person to routinely get the last word when Sebastian tries to preach at them. Also the dlc implies that she actually plays up her ditzy tendencies with certain people.