299 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hello Bioware, 

 

I am writing this thread to bring up a concern and desire I have for the Bioware franchises that I would appreciate being seen to. That is the ability to marry your Love Interests in the games. I think it would be a positive thing to include, both as just a feature but also as a way to represent those players who do get married and even wait to get married before having the kinds of relationships your games have. But before I get into that, let me describe the previous games and how they lacked this feature. I'll stick to just the Dragon Age and Mass Effect franchises for this thread. 

 

In Dragon Age: Origins, the only people we can even discuss getting married with and seeing it through are Alistair and Anora. Leliana, Morrigan, and Zevran never even bring the subject up or have the player bring the subject up. Of Alistair and Anora, only one is a love interest and thus can be considered more than just a political marriage. Even then, the game does not have it occur until the Epilogue slides of the game. So for those who want marriage represented at best get 1 of 4 love interests if they are a straight/bi female and straight/bi males get 0 of 4 love but an NPC representing that, but only as a "This happens afterwords" concept. That is better than the homosexual community who get no options for that part of a relationship. 

 

In Dragon Age 2, it ironically gets better and worse. The only people we can discuss it with and pursue it with is Sebastian, who is a DLC character. In the vanilla game, there are zero options for everybody. With the DLC, the only ones who get it are straight/bi females. Straight/bi/gay men and gay women as I said have no options to even discuss it with. It also gets worse since those who want no sex until marriage also have no representation because to pursue a relationship, the sex scene is required unlike DAO where you can turn down the offer and continue it. 

 

The Mass Effect franchise is the worst at this, since it is like the vanilla version of Dragon Age 2 but a trilogy instead of just one game. All 3 games both require the player to sleep with the love interest and yet none of them bring up the prospect of marriage. Which unlike the Dragon Age franchise, which has you adopt a new role each game, the Mass Effect trilogy follows the same protagonist so for the cross game love interests it could have come up since they have more content than the love interest of a single game. 

 

So now with the games out of the way, I can now discuss why I think the prospect of marriage and even the prospect of a 'no sex until marriage' character is important. For marriage, the statistics I have found, which admittedly are a few years old, show that approximately 70% of people on Earth get married at some point in their lives, and yet throughout the entirety of the Mass Effect and Dragon Age franchises, including Inquisition, we have only about 7% of achievement-unlocking love interests do this, both of whom are male so only the straight and bi women even get an option for it while gay women and all men do not. And of these two, Alistair as I said you don't even have it happen until after the game as an Epilogue Slide and Sebastian who is a chaste romance. And as for the no sex until marriage characters, we get at best 3.5% with only Alistair, and that is only if you turn his offer down, since Sebastian was a playboy before becoming a Brother. So we have 0% of the love interests represent that group of people, who worldwide estimates have in at least the tens of millions. 

 

So there are two huge groups of people who do not get something that they would like to have, and I would wish that in future installments of the current franchises thus why I am making this thread. For marriage in general, I think the option for the love interests to have it would be great, so those who want it have it and those who don't want don't have to have it. There can be exceptions of course, since if there was a love interest who wanted to wait until they are married to have intimate relationships with the protagonist would require the marriage occur and likewise there could be characters who have a negative opinion on the subject of marriage and want no part of it so it is turned down or never comes up. 

 

For whoever is reading this, I appreciate the time you took to do so. Please feel free to add any input you wish. Thank you. 

[Mirrman70]

I would see this as a purely beneficial option though I would like if that wasn't the only route to complete the romance with the character. Also it would have to fit the companion's personality, Zevran and Isabela are not the most likely people to get married. On the Mass Effect side I feel that in some ways the Liara romance in the 3rd game has a commitment like moment in the scene before the final battle and Ashley and Tali both talk about settling down to a degree (don't know about male squad members though), you have to remember the ultimate futility in Shepard getting married though. But in the end I feel as long as it is not forced onto every companion it would be purely beneficial.

[Allan Schumacher]

Just so I'm clear, do you think that thus far BioWare has been unfair/discriminatory towards people that value marriage, and that we should consider this position because marriage is widely valued?  In essence, making sure the content of our game is fair representation towards those with this particular value?

[BabyFratelli]

Why not? I'd love to be able to reject proposals in game as well as outside of them.

 

[aTigerslunch]

Well, marriage doesn't have to be all frivolous. Doesn't even need mention, I know 2 couples not married but at same time, consider themselves partnered for life. They don't believe a piece of paper is necessary. Leliana/Warden for example could claim marriage if they wanted by their own words for themselves without needing to bother anyone else.

 

Just saying that is plausible but I won't deny a choice of actual marriage for anyone. Though it is possible to avoid the "fun" till later if wanted to.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I'm happy just with the idea that some of the romances in-game don't make sex the 'end game' content, or that you can say no to sex and still continue the relationship. That, hopefully at least, makes that content more accessible in multiple way. Saying no to the sexual component of those relationships but allowing them to continue, allows for the player to roleplay (more accurately, although, it is still not full representation) as an asexual individual or as someone who wants to wait until marriage. Also, even if 70% of the world does get married, I don't really want to see those stats reflected in my companion make-up or in the end results of the romance.I'd like to see a married companion or two. Heck, a married couple as followers would be really fun, and is actually something I very much want to see. I'd be happy to see a character who says they are waiting until marriage to have sex, I would not be as happy if multiple relationship paths guide you to marriage as the only outcome for the pairing. For the most part, any long term relationship planning or consequences are things I personally enjoy leaving to headcanon and fanfiction.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would see this as a purely beneficial option though I would like if that wasn't the only route to complete the romance with the character. Also it would have to fit the companion's personality, Zevran and Isabela are not the most likely people to get married. On the Mass Effect side I feel that in some ways the Liara romance in the 3rd game has a commitment like moment in the scene before the final battle and Ashley and Tali both talk about settling down to a degree (don't know about male squad members though), you have to remember the ultimate futility in Shepard getting married though. But in the end I feel as long as it is not forced onto every companion it would be purely beneficial.

Of course. As I said, the only times I would see it as a necessary thing to do to continue the romance would be for those characters who would want to wait until after getting married to have sex. Any other time after that, it could just be a potential route for the player to go. 

 

 

Why not? I'd love to be able to reject proposals in game as well as outside of them.

 

*eye wink gif*

Yeah, there is that option as well. 

[Killdren88]

Isn't that the sort of thing saved for happily ever after and fanfiction?

[Puppy Love]

I'd love to get married in a game while the plot is still going, that would be dreamy.  So tired of it being the culmination of a romance or never even mentioned.  Is too lived happily ever after for me with the at the end of things.  Want to see some marriage issues, or after marriage stuff so it feels more real.  Maybe even have a special honeymoon scene after the marriage itself occurs. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Just so I'm clear, do you think that thus far BioWare has been unfair/discriminatory towards people that value marriage, and that we should consider this position because marriage is widely valued?  In essence, making sure the content of our game is fair representation towards those with this particular value?

I wouldn't say discriminatory since that carries a negative tone of Bioware not liking marriage. Unfair fits in the sense that around 93% of the romances in the DA and ME franchises have never had it even brought up in a discussion. Even less if we count the fling romances. 

 

As for considering adding it as fair representation towards those who have those views, yes. Letting people skip the sex scenes yet continue the romance is a step in the right direction since the players can headcanon, but I would like to see it actually represented in the games more. Especially for the tens of millions of people, like me, who want to wait until marriage. 

[HK-90210]

I agree, OP, with the caveat that it should only be done if it makes sense for the character in question. For instance:

 

Zevran probably went as far as he could by giving the Warden his earing. If you reject it unless it means something, he later offers it again. Then the Warden can ask him if it's a proposal and his reply is something like: "If that's the way you want to take it, then yes." So asking for a marriage in this scenario is not befitting of the character. Zevran's gone as far as he can within the confines of when the game takes place. To do more is fan service that isn't befitting the character.

 

On the other hand, Merril, I think, was a huge missed opportunity for Bioware to include a marriage within the game. She says that she loves Hawke right after the first liason, and he asks her to move in. I think it would have been cool if Bioware had offered a dialogue option in that scene to make it a full-fledged marriage. I doubt she would have refused if Hawke proposed in that scene, and it would have been an interesting thing for Hawke to call her his/her wife in Act 3.

 

I also think it would be cool to have a character who insists on a marriage before the relationship progresses. And not a Sebastian 'Chaste marriage' like in DA2. It could be interesting to have a PC who just doesn't want to get married but have a LI who insists on the matter. It would create a real crisis for the PC, forcing them to think about it seriously.

 

"I care for you a great deal, Protagonist. But if you really wish us to be together, I must put my foot down on this. If marriage is not your wish, then we can no longer entertain such feelings."

If player choses no:

Diplomatic: "Then I am sorry this didn't work."

Sarcastic: "Torn apart by marriage vows, oh how you wound me *insert character name here*"

Harsh: "Fine, then we're done."

If player choses yes:

Diplomatic: "Of course I will marry you."

Sarcastic: (Even if a man)"You...don't expect me to wear a dress and walk down the aisle, do you?"

Harsh: "If that's your demand, then yes."

 

Oh, the roleplaying scenarios that would ensue....would be awesome.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm happy just with the idea that some of the romances in-game don't make sex the 'end game' content, or that you can say no to sex and still continue the relationship. That, hopefully at least, makes that content more accessible in multiple way. Saying no to the sexual component of those relationships but allowing them to continue, allows for the player to roleplay (more accurately, although, it is still not full representation) as an asexual individual or as someone who wants to wait until marriage. Also, even if 70% of the world does get married, I don't really want to see those stats reflected in my companion make-up or in the end results of the romance.I'd like to see a married companion or two. Heck, a married couple as followers would be really fun, and is actually something I very much want to see. I'd be happy to see a character who says they are waiting until marriage to have sex, I would not be as happy if multiple relationship paths guide you to marriage as the only outcome for the pairing. For the most part, any long term relationship planning or consequences are things I personally enjoy leaving to headcanon and fanfiction.

As I said in my reply to Allan, the whole having the sex scene be voluntary instead of mandatory for the romance subplots is a good step for many groups of people, but like how asexuals would love to have an actual asexual LI, there should also be an actual character like I describe. And as I said in the OP, the getting married would only be an option, one that like the sex scenes in Inquisition are not necessary for the romance to reach completion. Unless it is part of their character. I agree a married couple as companions or followers would also be neat. 

 

 

Isn't that the sort of thing saved for happily ever after and fanfiction?

I'd rather not have to always rely on that. 

 

 

I'd love to get married in a game while the plot is still going, that would be dreamy.  So tired of it being the culmination of a romance or never even mentioned.  Is too lived happily ever after for me with the at the end of things.  Want to see some marriage issues, or after marriage stuff so it feels more real.  Maybe even have a special honeymoon scene after the marriage itself occurs. 

Exactly. For example having the companions comment on it, like how Isabela poked fun with Aveline about her and Donnic getting married, would be fun.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I agree, OP, with the caveat that it should only be done if it makes sense for the character in question. For instance:

 

Zevran probably went as far as he could by giving the Warden his earing. If you reject it unless it means something, he later offers it again. Then the Warden can ask him if it's a proposal and his reply is something like: "If that's the way you want to take it, then yes." So asking for a marriage in this scenario is not befitting of the character. Zevran's gone as far as he can within the confines of when the game takes place. To do more is fan service that isn't befitting the character.

 

On the other hand, Merril, I think, was a huge missed opportunity for Bioware to include a marriage within the game. She says that she loves Hawke right after the first liason, and he asks her to move in. I think it would have been cool if Bioware had offered a dialogue option in that scene to make it a full-fledged marriage. I doubt she would have refused if Hawke proposed in that scene, and it would have been an interesting thing for Hawke to call her his/her wife in Act 3.

 

I also think it would be cool to have a character who insists on a marriage before the relationship progresses. And not a Sebastian 'Chaste marriage' like in DA2. It could be interesting to have a PC who just doesn't want to get married but have a LI who insists on the matter. It would create a real crisis for the PC, forcing them to think about it seriously.

 

"I care for you a great deal, Protagonist. But if you really wish us to be together, I must put my foot down on this. If marriage is not your wish, then we can no longer entertain such feelings."

If player choses no:

Diplomatic: "Then I am sorry this didn't work."

Sarcastic: "Torn apart by marriage vows, oh how you wound me *insert character name here*"

Harsh: "Fine, then we're done."

If player choses yes:

Diplomatic: "Of course I will marry you."

Sarcastic: (Even if a man)"You...don't expect me to wear a dress and walk down the aisle, do you?"

Harsh: "If that's your demand, then yes."

 

Oh, the roleplaying scenarios that would ensue....would be awesome.

I agree with your examples.

And yeah, it presents a new source of roleplaying opportunities that haven't really ever existed in Bioware games for as long as I've played them. 

 

 

Well, marriage doesn't have to be all frivolous. Doesn't even need mention, I know 2 couples not married but at same time, consider themselves partnered for life. They don't believe a piece of paper is necessary. Leliana/Warden for example could claim marriage if they wanted by their own words for themselves without needing to bother anyone else.

 

Just saying that is plausible but I won't deny a choice of actual marriage for anyone. Though it is possible to avoid the "fun" till later if wanted to.

I know it doesn't need mention. I would just like it to. 

[Nefla]

Isn't that the sort of thing saved for happily ever after and fanfiction?

People only get married in fanfiction? You mean I wore that awful plum purple bridesmaid dress for nothing?!

[Puppy Love]

Sarcastic: (Even if a man)"You...don't expect me to wear a dress and walk down the aisle, do you?"

 

If my character said that I think I'd cry...  I want the dress and aisle...

[Dabrikishaw]

Eh, doesn't seem like something that should be introduced unless it doesn't interfere with the plot.

[Puppy Love]

Why shouldn't it be introduced?  It would be optional and be something a lot of people enjoy.  I don't understand.  Please enlighten me as to how it would be harmful or detrimental to the game?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Eh, doesn't seem like something that should be introduced unless it doesn't interfere with the plot.

Why would it interfere with the plot? Or at least, why would it any more than the current romance system? 

[Hellion Rex]

Please enlighten me as to how it would be harmful or detrimental to the game?

I don't think it would be at all. In all honesty, I don't have a problem with it. At the very least, maybe include a conversation branch or two among a few of the LIs (not all of them) and let the player just briefly discuss getting married and maybe later in the game act on such a desire. I think that if there is a marriage, it'd be best to have it as more endgame content as well.

[aTigerslunch]

It doesn't need to be endgame. I wouldn't mind hearing companions making some comments/banter about it.

[Dabrikishaw]

Why would it interfere with the plot? Or at least, why would it any more than the current romance system? 

I'm asking it not to interfere anymore than the current romance system does. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm asking it not to.

I don't think it would any more than the current romance system does. Whether lover or spouse, they are still a significant other. 

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't think it would any more than the current romance system does. Whether lover or spouse, they are still a significant other. 

Good, we agree. I also echo the sentiment of having this marriage option unlock at the end of the game.

[aTigerslunch]

The romance system interferes with the story?  Interesting when its optional....going to assume you know this. EDIT: Also, that marriage stuff would just be as optional as romance and not interfere just like romance wouldn't if someone doesn't want to go that path.

 

At least its not centered into the story like many other games have.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The romance system interferes with the story?  Interesting when its optional....going to assume you know this. EDIT: Also, that marriage stuff would just be as optional as romance and not interfere just like romance wouldn't if someone doesn't want to go that path.

 

At least its not centered into the story like many other games have.

Agreed. Really the only thing that changes would be instead of a lover the Li would be a spouse. All the related content would be just as optional as if they were a lover.