299 réponses à ce sujet

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Sorry OP, but...

 

Nope. Let Fable keep it. It was failure in TES and they should remove it.

 

No offense, but we shouldn't compare TES to Dragon Age or even Mass Effect in terms of romance. 

Bioware has the ability to form a lot of depth with the romance choices you have, making it very facile for a proper marriage. TES on the other hand was.. awkward, you can barely know a person but show them an amulet and "Let's get married!". I'll just end it at that to avoid derailing. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I doubt the protagonist has time for marriage when the world is busy killing itself, but if a marriage made sense in terms of the plot, sure. Just so long as it doesn't turn into pure fan service.

I agree it shouldn't be there just to be there, but should affect the character development like the romance arcs already do but in a slightly new way. 

 

 

 

 

Why da heck not.

lol 

 

 

I'd be fine with the romances including marriage where it makes sense - I can't see Morrigan, for example, marrying the Warden in DAO, for example. I don't want it to be like the situation in TOR where all the love interests bring up marriage, including my free-spirited space pirate. (I'm not saying you can't be a free-spirited space pirate and still get married, mind you, just that it made little sense for Andonikos Reval to propose to my Sith Inquisitor given his personality and the type of relationship they had.)

 

There are also some lore issues to consider when it comes to the gay and bisexual characters - does anywhere in Thedas have gay marriage? Do the characters care about that, or do they have a commitment ceremony and exchange rings regardless? (That would actually be an interesting issue to explore, I think.)

 

As long as I can continue cheerfully avoiding it, I have nothing against there being some love interests that you can marry.

Yeah, as I said in the OP just like there can be a way to represent people who want to wait until marriage by having that be a part of it, there should be the opposite end of the spectrum too with don't like the idea of marriage and turn any offer of it down. 

 

You actually bring up a good point I hadn't considered. Having the option to get married can present the franchise an opportunity to expose how such practices work in Thedas, adding to the lore. To use your example, we know the Chantry approves of marriage and doesn't disapprove of homosexuality, yet we've never heard if they marry homosexual couples. Having that come up would be a way to fill in that blank. 

 

 

Doesent really change anything. A relationship/love doesent change in any way (Enforces/strengthens - Diminishes/weakens) just because you are married. Having such signature on a paper, or doing some meaningless ritual - does not change a relationship.

Marriage is a practical tool in society needed for legal reasons and for security, Id say getting married is inconsequential emotionally.

Living a life with someone I love
OR 

Living a life with someone I love + marriage

Identical scenarios in my eyes.

That said I understand those who would want it. Be it traditional values or otherwise. This is just my personal opinion

Yeah, it is simply a personal decision. Some people want it for a variety of reasons, others don't for just as many reasons. 

[themikefest]

I would see this as a purely beneficial option though I would like if that wasn't the only route to complete the romance with the character. Also it would have to fit the companion's personality, Zevran and Isabela are not the most likely people to get married. On the Mass Effect side I feel that in some ways the Liara romance in the 3rd game has a commitment like moment in the scene before the final battle and Ashley and Tali both talk about settling down to a degree (don't know about male squad members though), you have to remember the ultimate futility in Shepard getting married though. But in the end I feel as long as it is not forced onto every companion it would be purely beneficial.

Samantha and femshep talked about having a future together just before going to Earth.

 

If marriage is in a future game, I would want it to take place near the middle of the game and not near the end when all heck breaks loose. Or have it after the the big ending fight. I would also like it if its the LI that brings it up in a casual conversation and go from there. If its not in any future game, I won't worry about it

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

My concern would be more along the lines: Would it's optional nature frustrate people?  

It would only frustrate me if your companions wants it and would react negatively on not doing it.

 

Some people is under the opinion that marriage is the mountain peak of true love, my opinion is that marriage is simply a practical social tool and has nothing to do with love. Wanting to get married is a sign of insecurity in a relationship in my eyes, and something a partner would want out of fear of rejection - adding a safety barrier if you will.

Again, I understand those who do want it. So even if I dont want it, I wouldnt oppose it if it means other players would be happy about it

But like I said, the most important thing here IMO is that companions shouldnt react negatively and nag about wanting to do it. That way everyone is happy (I think). And ofcourse the most important question of them all: Would it fit the dragon age universe and the setting of the story? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I have to disagree. I see it the opposite way; the option to marry your LI furthers the romance arc, which is a form of exploration. Regardless of what people label Bioware games, the romances are an integral part of the DA franchise that many players enjoy and are thankful for. And even if marriages were to be implemented in a future DA title, all the proponents here seem to agree that they should be optional. In other words, you wouldn't be forced into one. I see no reason people should argue against something if it doesn't negatively impact their own playing experience.

 

 

While bringing in the option for marriage does raise also the subject of divorce, one does not necessarily preclude the other. It seems to me that you are coloring your reply with personal experience. The reason we are (or at least I am) lobbying for marriage to be considered is not to make the game more realistic; it's to add another level to the already well-made romance arcs that few, if any, other games have. Bringing the institution of marriage into the player experience also allows the player to live through such a scenario in a fantasy setting away from everyday problems. I get that it's not for everyone, but again, we are discussing making it into an optional addition. Key word: optional.

Very well said. And yes, I'm not saying it should be a mandatory part of the romance system with the exception of the occasional character who wants to wait to be married before becoming a lover. Other than that, it is merely an optional part of the romance path of a love interest who would be interested.  

 

 

To add to my list from before:

 

   - small addition to the spouse's backstory only available if married(?)

 

I can see where this might turn into something where people argue that it's taking it too far; that they would be missing content if they didn't want to marry their LI. But in response to that, I'd like to point out that the same argument can be made about romances in general.

Pretty much. 

 

 

Thank you so much for finally bringing this topic to the table in addition to how incredibly well you represented it. I completely and whole-heartily agree with you, the lack of even bringing up the topic of marriage let alone the absence of marriage in Bioware games has always bothered me because in real life I am waiting till marriage, and I firmly believe that this trope will always exist due to teachings and traditions. Probably the reason I went for a Samara/Nomance playthrough in Mass Effect. I was glad to hear that you could turn down a sex scene while still keeping the romance. I do hope this is seriously considered for future franchises since one of Bioware's great goals is a fair option for everyone. 

 

You're welcome. I just felt a sudden urge to actually bring this up as a thread rather than it occasional come up in various threads for a page or so. I am in the same boat you are, with wanting to wait until married, so while I can play the romances my self-insert characters always end up alone because the sex scenes are a mandatory part of the romance arc. I am glad that we can turn down the scenes again in Inquisition. It's not quite representation, but it is a step in the right direction in my opinion so I would like them to fuly take that step if possible. 

 

 

I don't think it being optional would frustrate anyone, because we all understand the purpose of options; a fair chance for everyone. 

A romantic scene that establishes the idea of marriage is sufficient, as said above a small celebratory scene in addition to a slight change in dialouge and banter and sharing a room if applicable. 

I think a good example would be Doc's marriage scene in SWTOR, it was completely simple and secret yet very satisfying (from my point of view) because of how romantic it was.

Well, I'm sure it will frustrate a few people, but then everything will frustrate somebody. 

 

 

Sorry OP, but...

 

Nope. Let Fable keep it. It was failure in TES and they should remove it.

 

No offense, but we shouldn't compare TES to Dragon Age or even Mass Effect in terms of romance. 

Bioware has the ability to form a lot of depth with the romance choices you have, making it very facile for a proper marriage. TES on the other hand was.. awkward, you can barely know a person but show them an amulet and "Let's get married!". I'll just end it at that to avoid derailing. 

 

I agree with Vijoelante on this. I don't think Skyrim is an appropriate comparison since character development has never been one of their cornerstones. Meanwhile Bioware is famous for their character-driven stories, so if anyone can do it I think it is Bioware. 

[Rel Fexive]

I doubt the protagonist has time for marriage when the world is busy killing itself, but if a marriage made sense in terms of the plot, sure. Just so long as it doesn't turn into pure fan service.

 

They've got time for all those endless conversations about people's life stories, cultural history and for romance, but no time for a (relatively) simple ceremony that takes less than an afternoon to perform?  It's just another aspect of the romance system, not My Big Fat Thedas Wedding.

[Icy Magebane]

It's a worthless mechanic. So the Inquisitor arrives at Skyhold from a hard day of killing demons...

 

"Honey, I'm home!"

 

It's pointless. The romance arcs are more than enough. If marriage is a thing it should be part of a specific character arc.

 

And LOL diss TES writing all you want. The lore is second to none and Vivec is probably the best video game character ever created.

Lore and writing aren't the same thing... TES has a history of poorly developed side quests, plots, and dialogues.  The companions and NPCs in Skyrim are far too shallow to justify marriage... you can't make a fair comparison between that series and a story-based, character focused series like Dragon Age.

[TheUnknownDude14]

They've got time for all those endless conversations about people's life stories, cultural history and for romance, but no time for a (relatively) simple ceremony that takes less than an afternoon to perform?  It's just another aspect of the romance system, not My Big Fat Thedas Wedding.

As I said, I'd be fine with it if it made sense. An optional, plot integral part of the romance system that made sense in what counts as realistic in a fantasy world at war.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Give me a list of benefits of a marriage mechanic that can't be accomplished with a romance arc. Please, convince me. As of now I think it'd be a pointless use of resources.

Im curious if you would actively oppose marriage if the devs proposed it?

 

Im wondering because I dont want marriage in DA either, but I wouldnt oppose it if it made other people happy. Would the mere option detriment your immersion or fun of the game?

[Rel Fexive]

Give me a list of benefits of a marriage mechanic that can't be accomplished with a romance arc. Please, convince me. As of now I think it'd be a pointless use of resources.

 

People who want their characters to marry can have them get married.  It's just another aspect of the romances, not a replacement or an addition.  You might just as well ask what the tangible benefits of same-ex relationships are - why is it worth the resources?  Because it's what people are like and it's what people want and it's something about themselves that people want represented in games.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Samantha and femshep talked about having a future together just before going to Earth.

 

If marriage is in a future game, I would want it to take place near the middle of the game and not near the end when all heck breaks loose. Or have it after the the big ending fight. I would also like it if its the LI that brings it up in a casual conversation and go from there. If its not in any future game, I won't worry about it

Yeah, earlier in this thread I said the time for it would be around 2/3 the way of the game, with the first third being the transition from strangers to friends/budding romance if pursued and the second third being the transition from the friends/budding relationships to true significant others, which on the romance path would be where the marriage and/or sex scene occurs. 

 

 

It would only frustrate me if your companions wants it and would react negatively on not doing it.

 

Some people is under the opinion that marriage is the mountain peak of true love, my opinion is that marriage is simply a practical social tool and has nothing to do with love. Wanting to get married is a sign of insecurity in a relationship in my eyes, and something a partner would want out of fear of rejection - adding a safety barrier if you will.

Again, I understand those who do want it. So even if I dont want it, I wouldnt oppose it if it means other players would be happy about it

But like I said, the most important thing here IMO is that companions shouldnt react negatively and nag about wanting to do it. That way everyone is happy (I think). And ofcourse the most important question of them all: Would it fit the dragon age universe and the setting of the story? 

Yeah, even for the ones where it would fit their character to wait until marriage before sex or stuff like that, if the player doesn't offer or rejects the offer, they should still be your significant other, just not lovers. The person can act disappointed if rejected but maybe says, "Well, after this is all over I hope to have the chance to change your mind." or something like that rather than reacting negatively. But as been said, for almost anyone who this would be an option should be just that: an option. Just one of the paths to pursue in the relationship. 

 

 

They've got time for all those endless conversations about people's life stories, cultural history and for romance, but no time for a (relatively) simple ceremony that takes less than an afternoon to perform?  It's just another aspect of the romance system, not My Big Fat Thedas Wedding.

Exactly. I don't think anyone is expecting the huge, takes months to prepare weddings. And if they are, they know such a thing will most likely be in the epilogue. But things like small, private services are perfectly reasonable. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

It's a worthless mechanic. So the Inquisitor arrives at Skyhold from a hard day of killing demons...

 

"Honey, I'm home!"

 

It's pointless. The romance arcs are more than enough. If marriage is a thing it should be part of a specific character arc.

 

And LOL diss TES writing all you want. The lore is second to none and Vivec is probably the best video game character ever created.

Sorry, but they aren't enough for everyone. Their was a time when having romances at all were considered a worthless mechanic. 

 

And I never dissed TES. They are great at building huge, deep worlds since they are creating sandbox games where the world is the driving force of the game. Meanwhile Bioware is more story-based, and thus tends to be better at creating better characters since they are the driving force of the game. 

 

 

Give me the benefits of marriage that can't be accomplished with a romance arc. Please, convince me. As of now I think it'd be a pointless use of resources.

Here's one: Representation for those who want to get married in real life. 

[Rel Fexive]

As I said, I'd be fine with it if it made sense. An optional, plot integral part of the romance system that made sense in what counts as realistic in a fantasy world at war.

 

I don't think it would ever need to be made into anything more complex and involving than a extra aspect to the existing romance systems.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

People who want their characters to marry can have them get married.  It's just another aspect of the romances, not a replacement or an addition.  You might just as well ask what the tangible benefits of same-ex relationships are - why is it worth the resources?  Because it's what people are like and it's what people want and it's something about themselves that people want represented in games.

You said this much better than I did. Thank you.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

It's a worthless mechanic. So the Inquisitor arrives at Skyhold from a hard day of killing demons...

 

"Honey, I'm home!"

 

It's pointless. The romance arcs are more than enough. If marriage is a thing it should be part of a specific character arc.

 

And LOL diss TES writing all you want. The lore is second to none and Vivec is probably the best video game character ever created.

I didn't diss TES, I still play Oblivion till this day and I think Sykrim is an incredible game, but their character development has always been mediocre.

Since when is such an interaction 'pointless' in a RPG? Honestly then what's the point of dialouge options that lead to the same outcome? What's the point of same sex romances? You get a representation and are able to form a connection with your character which is the whole point of a role playing game, you play with your character the way you want.

[Rel Fexive]

And I never dissed TES. They are great at building huge, deep worlds since they are creating sandbox games where the world is the driving force of the game. Meanwhile Bioware is more story-based, and thus tends to be better at creating better characters since they are the driving force of the game. 

 

They are great games, but the 'romances' in Skyrim at least consist entirely of "oh, you're wearing an amulet of let's get married - okay, let's get married!"  And amusingly, spending a night with your spouse grants an actual mechanical benefit!

 

You said this much better than I did. Thank you.

 

It's almost like I know what I'm talking about, somehow.  Weird.  I'm, like, the person who needs the least inclusivity in games ever - pretty much grade A default gamer - but even I understand this stuff is important to people.  And rightly so.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So a very small fraction of the fanbase believe resources that would otherwise go to - important stuff - should be spent on a marriage mechanic because that's what they want? Good luck. 

Just because it is not important to you doesn't mean it is not important to others. Some people say the exact same thing you did about adding homosexual romances, yet look at important that is for the LGBT community. 

[Lukas Trevelyan]

So a very small fraction of the fanbase believe resources that would otherwise go to - important stuff - should be spent on a marriage mechanic because that's what they want? Good luck. 

 

Okay mate, now that was just insulting.

[Rel Fexive]

So a very small fraction of the fanbase believe resources that would otherwise go to - important stuff - should be spent on a marriage mechanic because that's what they want? Good luck. 

 

See also:

• playing a female character
• same-sex relationships
• lesbian characters
• gay characters
• bisexual characters
• pan characters

Because wanting them never got us anywhere, did it?

 

And, again, it's not a 'mechanic' - we're ultimately talking about specific dialogue involving marriage and possibly a small cinematic scene.  We're not replacing crafting or something.

 

Although.... hmmm...

 

GAME MESSAGE: You have not collected enough Fennec skins and Nug pelts to complete the construction of "Marriage".

 

PLAYER: Dammit, need to do more quests!

 

Was that what you were thinking of?