299 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Steelcan and Grand Admiral Cheesecake: Please take this elsewhere. It has nothing to do with the topic of having the option to marry love interests with our protagonist. 

[Steelcan]

But it is on topic for political marriages in DA:I which seem to be much more likely since it existed in DA:O

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

But it is on topic for political marriages in DA:I which seem to be much more likely since it existed in DA:O

 

*grumbles* Anora may technically be the primary title holder but you know the nobility are going to consider any heirs to be Couslands!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thank you. This. I am totally fine with the request for a character who expresses a desire to wait until marriage. I am fine with a romance arc, which fits the character, potentially involving r culminating in marriage. However the usage of the term representation in this sense is inaccurate and personally making me rather uncomfortable. Marriage is a choice, so is waiting for marriage. Those are both totally fine and respectable choices, they are awesome choices even, but they are not the same as being gay, trans, a person of color, a woman, or any other oppressed group who are poorly and underrepresented in the media. The argument can certainly and rightfully be made that there are many underrepresented religions in our media (this is often due to the intersectionality of religion
and race) but no real religions are represented in Thedas. While potentially significant, and certainly of value, it is not the same thing. Again though, Im not against the inclusion of the content, but the current reasoning being given ignores a fundamental part of what the idea of media representation means.

rep·re·sen·ta·tion  noun \ˌre-pri-ˌzen-ˈtā-shən, -zən-\

: a person or group that speaks or acts for or in support of another person or group

 

Please explain to me how using the term representation is inaccurate? 

[oceanicsurvivor]

I do not think the OP is interested in the prospect of political marriages. Additionally that content, given the political need for heirs would continue to largely limit marriage content to opposite sex couples. This would deny many LGB people -who also sometimes wait until marriage- access to a storyline like this, and the ability to put themselves and their values into the game. It would also, if unintentionally, run the risk of seeming exclusionary.

[Steelcan]

*grumbles* Anora may technically be the primary title holder but you know the nobility are going to consider any heirs to be Couslands!

. Which brings up an interesting possibility, a child from the Cousland/Mac Tir marriage

[draken-heart]

Eh, maybe something like Samantha Traynor from ME 3, where moving in and getting a family post-crisis, would be good for the setting. Full blown marriage? Not so sure.

[Steelcan]

I do not think the OP is interested in the prospect of political marriages. Additionally that content, given the political need for heirs would continue to largely limit marriage content to opposite sex couples. This would deny many LGB people -who also sometimes wait until marriage- access to a storyline like this, and the ability to put themselves and their values into the game. It would also, if unintentionally, run the risk of seeming exclusionary.

. Is same sex marriage even allowed in Thedas?

Homosexuality is accepted, but do marriages exist for them?

[Pevesh]

Thank you. This. I am totally fine with the request for a character who expresses a desire to wait until marriage. I am fine with a romance arc, which fits the character, potentially involving r culminating in marriage. However the usage of the term representation in this sense is inaccurate and personally making me rather uncomfortable. Marriage is a choice, so is waiting for marriage. Those are both totally fine and respectable choices, they are awesome choices even, but they are not the same as being gay, trans, a person of color, a woman, or any other oppressed group who are poorly and underrepresented in the media. The argument can certainly and rightfully be made that there are many underrepresented religions in our media (this is often due to the intersectionality of religion
and race) but no real religions are represented in Thedas. While potentially significant, and certainly of value, it is not the same thing. Again though, Im not against the inclusion of the content, but the current reasoning being given ignores a fundamental part of what the idea of media representation means.

Yup, this is what I wanted to say but just worded a whole lot more elegantly! Thanks. I can definitely see marriage or even having a character who waits until marriage for see working well for some of the romance plots and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I also feel it should be possible with most of the romances to not have sex but still continue the romance (and I think some of the Origins romances were like this? Someone correct me if I'm wrong). These things are just not the same as representation.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But it is on topic for political marriages in DA:I which seem to be much more likely since it existed in DA:O

Political marriages is not the topic for this thread. 

[Rel Fexive]

Eh, maybe something like Samantha Traynor from ME 3, where moving in and getting a family post-crisis, would be good for the setting. Full blown marriage? Not so sure.

 

It's not really any different to being locked into a particular LI relationship, though, beyond having specific dialogue to reference it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

. Is same sex marriage even allowed in Thedas?

Homosexuality is accepted, but do marriages exist for them?

Unknown. 

 

If being able to marry some companions was allowed, it'd be a great way to fill in that puzzle piece though. 

[Steelcan]

Political marriages is not the topic for this thread.

. Title says marriage, and the OP doesn't say "not for political marriage discussion"

[Hanako Ikezawa]

. Title says marriage, and the OP doesn't say "not for political marriage discussion"

If I add that, will you stop? 

[Rel Fexive]

Yup, this is what I wanted to say but just worded a whole lot more elegantly! Thanks. I can definitely see marriage or even having a character who waits until marriage for see working well for some of the romance plots and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I also feel it should be possible with most of the romances to not have sex but still continue the romance (and I think some of the Origins romances were like this? Someone correct me if I'm wrong). These things are just not the same as representation.

 

I suspect the "problem" here is the difference between representation and representation - one is just having a thing that "speaks or acts for or in support of another person or group", the other is the movement to have minority groups get better exposure in media (for lack of a better way to describe it).  We're talking more about the former while you seem to focus more on the latter meaning, which is, I believe, not strictly our intent.

 

 

("Our" intent? When did it become "our" intent? )

[Steelcan]

If I add that, will you stop?

. But do we really need to seperate? Making two threads on marriage seems kind of pointless

[Pevesh]

 

rep·re·sen·ta·tion  noun \ˌre-pri-ˌzen-ˈtā-shən, -zən-\

: a person or group that speaks or acts for or in support of another person or group

 

Please explain to me how using the term representation is inaccurate? 

 

It may fit the literal definition of the word, but not the way I chose to use the word in this context. What I was objecting to is people comparing including marriage in the game to including same sex romances, which to me implied equivalence.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

. But do we really need to seperate? Making two threads on marriage seems kind of pointless

I suppose you are right.

[Rel Fexive]

. But do we really need to seperate? Making two threads on marriage seems kind of pointless

 

. It blurs the focus somewhat, though, I guess.

[oceanicsurvivor]

rep·re·sen·ta·tion
[/size]noun[/size] [/size]\ˌre-pri-ˌ[/size]zen-ˈ[/size]tā-shən, -zən-\[/size]

: a person or group that speaks or acts for or in support of another person or group



Please explain to me how using the term representation is inaccurate?

That term throughout the forums and internet ( and most general convos I see)is most associated with various struggles all minorities face in media, government, etc . These groups are all very different but share similarities like having their societal contributions ignored and written out if textbooks, being denied legal protection, and even being attacked or made to feel unsafe because of who they are/aspects of their identity that are beyond their control. While you may not see the romance you want in the game (and again, I am not opposed to the content and I fully support and respect the choice you are making in your own life as well!) not having that option is not lacking representation in this sense. Your word choice makes it seem as if you are equating the two.


And as far as I know we have no confirmation one way or another as to if non nobility could have same-sex marriage. it seems generally accepted by the fandom that nobility and the desire for heirs forces people into heteronormative relationships, regardless of the individuals orientations.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It may fit the literal definition of the word, but not the way I chose to use the word in this context. What I was objecting to is people comparing including marriage in the game to including same sex romances, which to me implied equivalence.

 

That term throughout the forums and internet ( and most general convos I see)is most associated with various struggles all minorities face in media, government, etc . These groups are all very different but share similarities like having their societal contributions ignored and written out if textbooks, being denied legal protection, and even being attacked or made to feel unsafe because of who they are/things beyond their control. While you may not see the romance you want in the game (and again, I am not opposed to the content and I fully support and respect the choice you are making in your own life as well!) not having that option is not lacking representation in this sense. Your word choice makes it seem as if you are equating the two.

Well, as Rel said we are using the dictionary definition of the word. 

 

Though I would argue that my part about adding a character who wants to wait under marriage before having sex does fit both uses of the word, since people like that are underexposed in a world which dominantly tells us that we are wrong or stupid for thinking that way. 

[Rel Fexive]

Like I said, there's always a problem when one words gains two not entirely aligned meanings.

[Rel Fexive]

Well, as Rel said we are using the dictionary definition of the word. 

 

Though I would argue that my part about adding a character who wants to wait under marriage before having sex does fit both uses of the word, since people like that are underexposed in the media. 

 

Hollywood movies are filled with SIN!!

 

[LPPrince]

I've felt that marriage could totally be a thing added into one of these stories, if it fits.

 

Given the length of time that passed in DA2, you would've thought that'd of been the time.

[Pevesh]

I'm not using the dictionary definition of the word, because these posts below were comparing allowing the player to marry in game to LGBT representation (which goes beyond including same sex romance options, BTW).:

Just because it is not important to you doesn't mean it is not important to others. Some people say the exact same thing you did about adding homosexual romances, yet look at important that is for the LGBT community. 

 

See also:

• playing a female character
• same-sex relationships
• lesbian characters
• gay characters
• bisexual characters
• pan characters

Because wanting them never got us anywhere, did it?

 

Also, married characters are included in the game, so I'm not even sure how you could argue people who are married or want to marry in RL (I include myself as one of these people!) aren't represented. I feel like I'm taking this off-topic, though, so I'm not going to post any further on this issue.