299 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

I've mentioned a few times on the forums that I would be happy just talking about the possibilities of marriage or kids or things like that in game it would kind of add another level of immersion for me. So I'd be down for possible marriages in game, heck a war time wedding might be interesting actually. Though like I said I would be so happy with just talking about it as well even if it doesn't go anywhere so a marriage option would be like the icing on the little mini cake.

[Seboist]

Don't care about marriage or kids as a feature as this is how my protags treat their "love" interests after they've gotten what they wanted from them.

 

[Rel Fexive]

There is something appealing about the "wartime marriage"--two people who don't know if they're going to live to see the end of the conflict, so they scrape together whatever they can find and throw a quick wedding before going back to their duties.  I wouldn't want to see a grand fancy white wedding, but a quick jaunt over to the Chantry or a ceremony under a tree with a couple followers scattered about?  That could be cool.

 

Question, though: what faith would it involve?  Most likely Andrasteism.  What if you're playing a Dalish elf?  Is it assumed that you've now converted?  Religion would be unavoidable in this scenario, because secular marriage probably just doesn't exist in this setting.  So how do you deal with all the people who don't want their characters giving up their faith just to be with someone?

 

Interesting question alert!

 

Yeah, I like that kind of thing in storytelling. Earlier I used the wedding scene from Mission Impossible III since I think that is a great example of that.

 

As for covering all religions, I suppose that if we lead an organization like in DAi they can just have a priest of that organization do it. Like someone who averse themselves in the wedding practices of the people involved cultures. 

 

I always thought of my Shepard and Miranda having a foxhole relationship, if you like. Not a euphemism!  Just "well, it's a suicide mission... shall we?"  Sad for her when he went back to Liara though!

 

Aaaanyway....

 

I think it's rather that I would prefer BioWare to prioritize representation of a marginalized group over a group that does not face the same systemic problems. I am of the opinion that it is their moral imperative.

 

I can understand that.  But... marriage equality, right?

[Little Princess Peach]

Just so I'm clear, do you think that thus far BioWare has been unfair/discriminatory towards people that value marriage, and that we should consider this position because marriage is widely valued?  In essence, making sure the content of our game is fair representation towards those with this particular value?

thats for people that want to make a big deal out of something, yes in real life it has value but in games not so much.

sometimes it can be benificial to the story like in Origins it made sense for a noble to marry Anora/Aliatir but if you have it for the sake of having it inside a game it would most likly feel cheap and out of place.

 

in swator the marragies made no sense to me it was just a fade out to black and then after that the content is over and done with.

the real issue with this feature for a game all comes down to cost and reasoures and plots.

[DemonMajor]

I'm not sure it would require a lot of resources to do a small, quick scene.  Especially if it's done in place of a sex scene.  Instead of the protagonist and love interest having an intimate time in a bedroom, they'd be shown walking hand-in-hand to the Chantry doors, or standing in front of someone conducting a ceremony, or exchanging tokens under a tree. 

Not for just a small scene such as the one you described, or perhaps even to add additional dialogue/banter, but to fully address the issues brought up (namely religion) seems to me would require some planning, as whatever they decide upon will become canon. Granted, they could simply have any non-Andrastien characters convert, but I don't think that would be very satisfying.I also don't think marriage scenes should replace sex scenes, as that would deprive people who do not wish to marry their LI of content. And just to clarify, I didn't mean "a lot" of resources, just a notable amount that could theoretically be spent elsewhere.

[Puppy Love]

Why does no one see how telling the majority what they want doesn't matter because of what a minority wants is more important can breed resentment in the majority?

 

The goal if you want to help the minority is to bring as many of the majority into caring about their plight so the the majority cares about the plight of the minority, not pissing all over the majority.  That is not accomplished by saying the majorities, opinions, desires and concerns are irrelevant or less important than the minority.

 

See what people seem to keep forgetting is that the majority does hold the power, is fact, in the end if it came to fisticuffs or if the majority decided to force the issue they would win.  It's that simple.

 

Either appeal to the majority on equal terms, or one is simply shooting their cause in the foot, because the last thing you want is further push the majority from being able to side with you.  Is like being a vegan and demanding that because you're at the table no one can eat meat and wondering why no one invites you to dinner.  It only creates resentment and furthers the divide.

 

Now I realize there's limit to what can be done.  You can't please everybody, but saying that it's something the non marginalized majority might want is a poor and divisive argument for not including something.

 

Besides, what about gay marriage?  In times where there's still a fight for the right for gays to get married in a lot of places, I can see being able to do so in game quite refreshing.

 

To ultimately and truly end discrimination, the majority must be brought into the fold.  This cannot be done by telling them to f off.

[Rel Fexive]

Not for just a small scene such as the one you described, or perhaps even to add additional dialogue/banter, but to fully address the issues brought up (namely religion) seems to me would require some planning, as whatever they decide upon will become canon. Granted, they could simply have any non-Andrastien characters convert, but I don't think that would be very satisfying.I also don't think marriage scenes should replace sex scenes, as that would deprive people who do not wish to marry their LI of content. And just to clarify, I didn't mean "a lot" of resources, just a notable amount that could theoretically be spent elsewhere.

 

I could see forcing the effective conversion of either partner to a particular religion without allowing a choice causing a great degree of gruntlement, but I can't really imagine the creators of THE games about player choices doing that.

 

Also, I could see a marriage scene with an implied wedding night replacing a sex scene, but not for everyone - anyone else who doesn't want to get married and still wants to do the nighttime boogaloo with their LI would still get that cinematic instead.  In a semi-perfect world.

[Samahl]

To ultimately and truly end discrimination, the majority must be brought into the fold.  This cannot be done by telling them to f off.

 

No one is saying that. Please desist with your strawmanning. The postulation that the majority will only deign to treat minorities better if they suck up to them is not only false, but damaging, as it implies that marginalized people must act a certain way, or they don't deserve rights.

[Chron0id]

Don't care about marriage or kids as a feature as this is how my protags treat their "love" interests after they've gotten what they wanted from them.

 

That's....that's so CRUEL.  ;_;

[oceanicsurvivor]

Why does no one see how telling the majority what they want doesn't matter because of what a minority wants is more important can breed resentment in the majority?

 

The goal if you want to help the minority is to bring as many of the majority into caring about their plight so the the majority cares about the plight of the minority, not pissing all over the majority.  That is not accomplished by saying the majorities, opinions, desires and concerns are irrelevant or less important than the minority.

 

See what people seem to keep forgetting is that the majority does hold the power, is fact, in the end if it came to fisticuffs or if the majority decided to force the issue they would win.  It's that simple.

 

Either appeal to the majority on equal terms, or one is simply shooting their cause in the foot, because the last thing you want is further push the majority from being able to side with you.  Is like being a vegan and demanding that because you're at the table no one can eat meat and wondering why no one invites you to dinner.  It only creates resentment and furthers the divide.

 

Now I realize there's limit to what can be done.  You can't please everybody, but saying that it's something the non marginalized majority might want is a poor and divisive argument for not including something.

 

Besides, what about gay marriage?  In times where there's still a fight for the right for gays to get married in a lot of places, I can see being able to do so in game quite refreshing.

 

To ultimately and truly end discrimination, the majority must be brought into the fold.  This cannot be done by telling them to f off.

 

Ah yes, the old  'be nice to me or you aren't deserving of basic human rights and dignity'. The true classic statement of a fake ally. Lovely.
 

[LPPrince]

Mr. Gaider has voiced his opinion on integrating marriage in these games in the past, which makes me think it would take some convincing for him to want to explore the opportunities it would open up. Or perhaps I'm misremembering and instead I should be hoping that he finds a way to integrate them well.

 

Still, its something I hope to see in the future.

[Puppy Love]

There's a difference between sucking up to and not attacking.

 

Saying I feel gays are under represented and deserve representation is fine.  It's true.  And a very good reason for including it. 

 

Saying I feel gays are under represented and deserve representation as a result and are thus more important and a bigger priority than what say I dunno a straight man wants.  Is unnecessarily attacking and belittling the straight man.  It's an unnecessary addendum.  It's not more important, one persons needs, desires, wants are not more important than anothers, pushing that agenda is a bad way to go.  That someone gay wants to be represented and you feel they deserve to be given that representation as well as you is a good inclusive argument.  That someone is gay, wants representation, and deserves it more than you because you've had representation before is not.  Is threatening the straight man by saying they should be marginalized because they've been the majority in the past.

 

It is a completely unnecessary place to go.  You can talk about the plight of one side with using divisive speech.

 

Asking for the same/equal treatment is completely different than telling people you should be given superior treatment to make up for the treatment in the past.  All that would accomplish is reversing roles.  Gee I wonder why people are in opposition to that.

 

I believe we all deserve representation, I realize we cannot all get it all the time.  We felt this group deserved representation, we're sorry we weren't able to represent your group as well this time, we really wish we could do it all.  Is so much better than, well you've had representation in the past so much more than them, so sorry your desires don't matter and are less important.

 

I do not see how people cannot see the divisiveness there.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I think it's rather that I would prefer BioWare to prioritize representation of a marginalized group over a group that does not face the same systemic problems. I am of the opinion that it is their moral imperative.

I'm going to stop arguing about this because I'm going to start being not nice.

[Killdren88]

The whole concept seems odd considering the game's setting. Setting time aside to get Married when demons are running rampant and the Elder One plotting nasty stuff. Honestly Marriage should the last thing on the Inquisitor's mind. I mean, Marriage during the story would have made more sense in DA2, considering its a personal Story about Hawke. There they could have set time aide for a wedding and such.

[Samahl]

Saying I feel gays are under represented and deserve representation as a result and are thus more important and a bigger priority than what say I dunno a straight man wants.  Is unnecessarily attacking and belittling the straight man.  It's an unnecessary addendum.  It's not more important, one persons needs, desires, wants are not more important than anothers, pushing that agenda is a bad way to go.  That someone gay wants to be represented and you feel they deserve to be given that representation as well as you is a good inclusive argument.  That someone is gay, wants representation, and deserves it more than you because you've had representation before is not.  Is threatening the straight man by saying they should be marginalized because they've been the majority in the past.

 

I'm not interested in coddling straight men who feel threatened by the idea of somebody else getting preferential treatment, for a change.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I'm not interested in coddling straight men who feel threatened by the idea of somebody else getting preferential treatment, for a change.

 

You realize in game marriage can potentially include men and women of any sexuality, right?

Not to mention this has nothing to do with 'straight men', this is about those who prefer a relationship evolving into marriage and waiting till marriage to have sex.

[oceanicsurvivor]

There's a difference between sucking up to and not attacking.

 

Saying I feel gays are under represented and deserve representation is fine.  It's true.  And a very good reason for including it. 

 

Saying I feel gays are under represented and deserve representation as a result and are thus more important and a bigger priority than what say I dunno a straight man wants.  Is unnecessarily attacking and belittling the straight man.  It's an unnecessary addendum.  It's not more important, one persons needs, desires, wants are not more important than anothers, pushing that agenda is a bad way to go.  That someone gay wants to be represented and you feel they deserve to be given that representation as well as you is a good inclusive argument.  That someone is gay, wants representation, and deserves it more than you because you've had representation before is not.  Is threatening the straight man by saying they should be marginalized because they've been the majority in the past.

 

It is a completely unnecessary place to go.  You can talk about the plight of one side with using divisive speech.

 

Asking for the same/equal treatment is completely different than telling people you should be given superior treatment to make up for the treatment in the past.  All that would accomplish is reversing roles.  Gee I wonder why people are in opposition to that.

 

I believe we all deserve representation, I realize we cannot all get it all the time.  We felt this group deserved representation, we're sorry we weren't able to represent your group as well this time, we really wish we could do it all.  Is so much better than, well you've had representation in the past so much more than them, so sorry your desires don't matter and are less important.

 

I do not see how people cannot see the divisiveness there.

 

No one is asking for superior treatment. Straight men are not being and will most likely never be marginalized. Asking for the difference between values and identity to be respected is not marginalizing or attacking straight people. Its asking that the very real struggles of marginalized people not be disrespected or ignored.

 

And for the record:  Gay people (maybe not 'gays' ) are just one of many groups who face day to day discrimination based on their identity. What they want: in the context of representation, legal protections etc IS more important because it is being withheld from us. A straight white man may feel uncomfortable or ignored on occassion but he is not fundamentally and systemically being denied anything by the social and legal institutions we have in place. 

[Puppy Love]

Since the goal is for all of us to get along, be represented, and end hate and bigotry.  Not being an ass to each other is a good start for either side.  Being a dick, being mean to others, treating others like crap, marginalizing others is the very thing we're trying to fight against.  How the hell can we do that using the same hateful, bigotted and dickish methods used to marginalize others.  It's just more of the same.

 

Violence begets violence, hate begets hate, being an ass begets being an ass.

 

For a change to truly occur, we need to change how we approach this or it's just and endless cycle of the same damn thing with each group trying to get in over on the other.  Everyone is going for power, and forgetting the end goal is supposed to be equality, mutual understanding and supporting each other.

[Samahl]

You realize in game marriage can potentially include men and women of any sexuality, right?

Not to mention this has nothing to do with 'straight men', this is about those who prefer a relationship evolving into marriage and waiting till marriage to have sex.

 

I was responding to Puppy Love's derail. I realize that it's not an either-or situation.

[Killdren88]

Since the goal is for all of us to get along, be represented, and end hate and bigotry.  Not being an ass to each other is a good start for either side.  Being a dick, being mean to others, treating others like crap, marginalizing others is the very thing we're trying to fight against.  How the hell can we do that using the same hateful, bigotted and dickish methods used to marginalize others.  It's just more of the same.

 

Violence begets violence, hate begets hate, being an ass begets being an ass.

 

For a change to truly occur, we need to change how we approach this or it's just and endless cycle of the same damn thing with each group trying to get in over on the other.  Everyone is going for power, and forgetting the end goal is supposed to be equality, mutual understanding and supporting each other.

 

That means over coming human nature. And let's face it, that sadly takes a long time to get over.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

That means over coming human nature. And let's face it, that sadly takes a long time to get over.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

[Puppy Love]

There's a difference between demanding equality and recognition, and attempting to marginalize the other side.  Which true or not is what is being done by saying anyones needs are unimportant or inferior.  You can demand one without trying to enforce the other or telling people these degrading and dehumanizing things.

 

Is not a matter of stroking the majorities ego, it's a matter of not poking the bear unnecessarily and wrongfully.

 

A bad tactic is a bad tactic, calling it what it is, is not saying anything but how bad the tactic is.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I was responding to Puppy Love's derail. I realize that it's not an either-or situation.

He/She's merely responding to the concept of how just because something is in the majority, it should be ignored and written off. When in fact when asking for equality, it should mean that both sides get equal attention, not one over the other. Of course he/she explains it in a much better fashion than I.

[DaySeeker]

I think it would be cool to start out the game married to someone and have the romance inside the committed relationship; I think it would be cool as a story telling device.

 

Marriage is a complicated issue.  Granted DA2 took place over years, so, to me, that seems a better place to have it, but in DA:O these characters have really just met, and depending on how you play, meet at the end of the game. I also agree that some characters are not looking for marriage and the world at large has more pressing issues for the player to accomplish.  Perhaps a sign f commitment being shown, but I think marriage is too big if it isn't included for story reasons.  

 

I found the Sebastian "romance" no fun at all- don't flirt with anyone ever or he'll know, you can't even kiss him, you get to basically marry the Chantry and jump through his hoops. Blech.  No thank you.