28 réponses à ce sujet

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

The latin phrase "Nihil sub sole novum" means theres nothing new under the sun. So why didnt I just write that in english? Am I trying to sound like a smartass? Not exactly. Its more the fact that since this was already a saying that far back it shows that human imagination in literature still managed to come up with new stuff since then, which is quiet remarkable considering how in this age - everything seems "spent".

What Im wondering with this is the following; do you think the writers will come up with something new and unique with the Dragon age:Inquisition story? 

Since I was in my early 20s I had by that time already read so many books and seen so many movies that only about 1/10 (at best) stories managed to come with plot twists and surprising elements that I couldnt forsee. This changed my view on a good story to unpredictability becomming one of the most important trait for me when it came to story and plot twists. Even a harder criteria was that it had to be made with subtle hints - in a way that it made sense afterwards (a deus ex machina is NOT a good plot element but rather the cheapest way to surprise, like high sound in horror movies).

Bioware has always been great at writing characters and stories. Even if there wasnt any huge plot twists in the story - the quality and consistency of the writing was always superb. Especially the characters and character progression and the realistic and human views of characters and their flaws was fantastic imo. Much of the same reason I love game of thrones - most characters are depicted in a believable way that we could relate to, even the antagonists. Jon Irenicus for example, an elf that I in the end - could understand and even pity - despite all he had done. 

Im not concerned about the writing at all. What Im wondering is (especially in this internet age when one leak can spoil everything) - will we see a story, plot element / plot twist that will come as a surprise? Something unpredictable and mindblowing? After the new trailer Im hyped like never before. The story will be great I think (or atleast I hope so) but my main hope for DA:I is that there will be plot twists and unforseen events that even this army of fans and lore-junkies couldnt see comming. Do you guys think we might see something like this in Inquisition? How important are good plot twists to you personally?

[Icy Magebane]

I honestly can't think of even one plot twist from DAO or DA2.  I enjoyed the stories in both games, but all of the dramatic events were fairly predictable.  I don't expect DAI to break from this pattern.  They may reveal some new lore that contradicts things we've assumed or that the people of Thedas believe to be true, but I get the feeling that's not really what you are looking for...

 

Since good plot twists are so out of the ordinary, I never expect them and try to enjoy a story for what it is.  I'd rather have a straightforward, predictable plot than one that heads in an illogical direction due to a poorly conceived plot twist.

[TheJediSaint]

Originality is overrated.  It's all about the quality of execution.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I honestly can't think of even one plot twist from DAO or DA2.  I enjoyed the stories in both games, but all of the dramatic events were fairly predictable.  I don't expect DAI to break from this pattern.  They may reveal some new lore that contradicts things we've assumed or that the people of Thedas believe to be true, but I get the feeling that's not really what you are looking for...

 

Since good plot twists are so out of the ordinary, I never expect them and try to enjoy a story for what it is.  I'd rather have a straightforward, predictable plot than one that heads in an illogical direction due to a poorly conceived plot twist.

Agreed there. Solid writing with no plot twists beats a tryhard-attempt at a plot twist that fails, in such cases it simply hurts the story more than it helps. The thing with DA universe is that there is actually great potential for plot twists due to the ambigious lore. I wouldnt mind if there isnt some huge plot twists, but IMO it would be great if they managed to pull it off. 

[TheLittleBird]

Interesting question. Let's start with my preference, I guess.

I enjoy a good plot twist as much as the next , but I don't feel it is necessary for a good story. One of the best plottwists that spring to mind is the one present at the end of Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, concerning Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. A brilliant twist that shapes the narrative as it follows after that. To me this twist has all the qualities a plottwist should have, and one that I will always use to measure other twists against.

I can't really think of any twists in the story in Dragon Age so far, however. In the novels, yes, though I don't wish to spoil them for those that haven't yet read the latest books.
In a game, I feel a plottwist could be hard to do, for the simple reason that games often provide much more exposition than a novel or movie does, especially big RPG's like the DA franchise.
So I don't really expect huge plottwists in Inquisition. However, I feel like BioWare has always been good at giving us interesting and fresh narrative. One such example is the fact that DA2's story is told by Varric, which has resulted in some pretty great scenes.

[Cryptos]

Isn't it Nihil novi sub sole? but i agree with the jedisaint on that its all about the quality of execution.

[TheLittleBird]

Isn't it Nihil novi sub sole? but i agree with the jedisaint on that its all about the quality of execution.

 

Just checked my Latin dictionary, 'nihil' is indeed combined with 'novi' to get "Nothing new".

Anyway. Nitpicking

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

So the consensus so far is: a good plot twist would be welcome - but a safe and solid execution is way more important and at the risk of a plot twist failing to hit the spot you would rather not see it at all?

@Cryptos: I mightve gotten that quote wrong

Edit: Im personally really wishing for one. One of the main reasons being - as I said - the DA universe has lots of ambigious lore, which should provide lots of oppurtunities for such.  But I understand your fears that it might backfire. Plot twists are difficult to pull off today (as for my thread title choice) because everything that has been done has been done it seems. Im hoping the writers have the imagination to pull it off, but yeah... better safe than sorry

[Tamyn]

Originality is overrated.  It's all about the quality of execution.

 

Yes. Getting me to care about the characters and their fates is more important than surprising me at every turn.

[TheLittleBird]

So the consensus so far is: a good plot twist would be welcome - but a safe and solid execution is way more important and at the risk of a plot twist failing to hit the spot you would rather not see it at all?

 

Yes. See, that's the thing, really: plot twists have a very high chance of becoming cheesy or even downright ridiculous if the execution doesn't match the intention of said plot twists. 

 

I prefer my story to be solid and of high quality, and if that means no plot twists, I am fine with that. Some of my favourite stories feature no real twists at all, so I guess that must say something. I am more looking forward to what the story itself contains, and how it fits within the lore. Solas' profile interview with his writer Patrick Weekes, to give just one example, talked about how he sees the Fade in an entirely different light than most people. That is cool to me, that is exciting; because up until now the Fade has primarily been portrayed as a Thedosian version of hell, filled with demons and other mean entities - even though there have been some good spirits, but they always seemed to be in a minority. So giving the player an entirely new perspective on the Fade, as the interview suggested, is refreshing, and it even provides the player with a way of looking at past stories in an entirely new light. And that is something I applaud, even praise. To go back to plot twists: the best are usually those that succeed in making you think differently about what came before. 

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Yes. Getting me to care about the characters and their fates is more important than surprising me at every turn.

The poison lies in the dosage right? You wouldnt enjoy or care much for a major plot twist throughout the game at all? (just curious)

[TheJediSaint]

A good plot twist, like everything in storytelling, is all about execution.  The revelation of Revan's identity is an example of  a good plot twist.  On the other hand, the Starchild's reveal at the end of ME3 can be seen as an example of a poor plot twist.

[TheJediSaint]

How was Starkid a plot twist? Seems more like a diabolus ex machina to me.

The twist was that the Reapers were in fact controlled by a single entity, and that they were ironically created to protect organic life from machines...by murdering them when they got too advanced.  Like I pointed out, it's not a very good plot twist.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

How was Starkid a plot twist? Seems more like a diabolus ex machina to me.

 

Im pretty sure that ending was due to time restraints? That whole ending screamed of kotor2 rushed ending. But yeah that was probably the worst presentation of a plot twist ever. 

1) Added at the very end
2) Made no sense
3) Instead of strengthening the game it sabotaged everything up to that point

Id agree that the ME3 ending is the perfect example of plot twist gone wrong.

[TheJediSaint]

Then it's a plot twist and a diabolus ex machina!

They're not mutually exclusive.  

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Well its sort of like rhetoric. Use it good, be commended. Use it bad, invade Poland. But people tend to get caught up in the negatives. Which is why rhetoric for example is viewed on with suspicion and bad connotations despite being a neutral tool.

[Tamyn]

The poison lies in the dosage right? You wouldnt enjoy or care much for a major plot twist throughout the game at all? (just curious)

 

 

A good plot twist, like everything in storytelling, is all about execution.  The revelation of Revan's identity is an example of  a good plot twist.  On the other hand, the Starchild's reveal at the end of ME3 can be seen as an example of a poor plot twist.

 

The thing is, I figured out the Revan plot twist on Dantooine. What tipped me off was how no one ever used a gendered pronoun when talking about Revan, and no one ever said that Revan died.

 

Plot twists can be fun, but I don't want them if the characters I like are killed despite my influence just to be "shocking". I also want twists to be consistent with how the world has been previously presented.

[Jazzpha]

Well its sort of like rhetoric. Use it good, be commended. Use it bad, invade Poland. But people tend to get caught up in the negatives. Which is why rhetoric for example is viewed on with suspicion and bad connotations despite being a neutral tool.

 

As a rhetoric teacher, this is all I have to say to this sentiment:

 

[TheJediSaint]

The thing is, I figured out the Revan plot twist on Dantooine. What tipped me off was how no one ever used a gendered pronoun when talking about Revan, and no one ever said that Revan died.

 

Plot twists can be fun, but I don't want them if the characters I like are killed despite my influence just to be "shocking". I also want twists to be consistent with how the world has been previously presented.

I find character deaths are better with foreshadowing.  A sudden death is shocking, yes.  But the sense of dread knowing that something bad is going to happen without knowing what it is until it happens is just the thing to get the feels going.  

[Maria Caliban]

Originality is overrated.  It's all about the quality of execution.

Originality is underrated. This is especially true in fantasy where writers can dream up completely new worlds, religions, cultures, beings, and natural laws, but 80% of stories are either pseudo-medieval European or contemporary American.

I recall when Throne of the Crescent Moon came out, its biggest selling point was that it had a Persian setting. Simply sticking it in Persia was enough to differentiate it from all the other fantasy novels published that year.

What Im wondering with this is the following; do you think the writers will come up with something new and unique with the Dragon age:Inquisition story?

Sure.

[thats1evildude]

At the end of DAI, it is revealed the whe series exists in the imagination of an autistic child who's really a ghost haunting the ruins of a post apocalyptic earth ruled over by intelligent apes. DUn DUN DUN!

[CuriousArtemis]

There really are no new stories to tell. It's how you tell them BioWare tells good stories!

[CuriousArtemis]

The twist was that the Reapers were in fact controlled by a single entity, and that they were ironically created to protect organic life from machines...by murdering them when they got too advanced.  Like I pointed out, it's not a very good plot twist.

 

Subjective... I loved the ending. It really stretched my mind... very good sci-fi