I'd like more friendship-like stuff, to be honest. Take a companion to a pub at any point just because you feel like it, or chase down some sort of evil monster and kill it just the two of them, because even killing ancient evil can have a sense of romance to it, with the right perspective. Intimate stuff is nice, but the having fun doing some sort of activity together can be just as good, if not better.
What do you think Iron Bull's date scene is going to be? 
Ah, I think I know what you mean, OP.
It's like you're in a relationship w/ your LI, and then at some point you say, "Hey! I think I'm gonna go have sex w/ Serendipity in the Blooming Rose." To which, your shocked LI exclaims, "What the hell? We're in a relationship. How could you do this to me? YOU ARE TEARING ME APART!"
I can only hear Tommy Wiseau's voice in my head with that last line, and now I'm imagining a The Room video game.
Something I did miss in DA 2, was that you could kiss morrigan anywhere. And There would be exotic runes / places all over when it would be so cheesy and romantic. 
My favorite by far was cliff side when you destroy the anvil of the void. Above you there is a lyrium vein growing down from the ceiling and in the scenery there is a waterfall of lava. Awesome place.
I guess I like the planet Aite for DLC overlord. The place looks amazing. I just wanted to get out of the vehicle and roam around a bit.
*Sigh*... I guess I am a sucker for cheesy stuff.
Ah, I think I know what you mean, OP.
It's like you're in a relationship w/ your LI, and then at some point you say, "Hey! I think I'm gonna go have sex w/ Serendipity in the Blooming Rose." To which, your shocked LI exclaims, "What the hell? We're in a relationship. How could you do this to me? YOU ARE TEARING ME APART!"
I really didn't like the LI options in DA2. I mean Isabela is just wrong in so many ways, I don't even... Half of the people you meet know Isabela, because they *cough* before... I mean, its fine I guess. Hawke went in to relationship knowing what kind of person she was... but the fact is that she keeps doing that even in Act 3. I mean I dont know, about most people, if my girlfriend asks someone in front of you that would they like to do her. I would just leave her, then and there, no questions asked. I guess the morality of our world does not apply to theirs.
Oh whatever, I dont care.
I really didn't like the LI options in DA2. I mean Isabela is just wrong in so many ways, I don't even... Half of the people you meet know Isabela, because they *cough* before... I mean, its fine I guess. Hawke went in to relationship knowing what kind of person she was... but the fact is that she keeps doing that even in Act 3. I mean I dont know, about most people, if my girlfriend asks someone in front of you that would they like to do her. I would just leave her, then and there, no questions asked. I guess the morality of our world does not apply to theirs.
Oh whatever, I dont care.
She keeps doing it into Act 3 because (For all intents and purposes) Hawke had agreed to an Open Relationship. Isabela said she had no interest in love or really attachment. That was their relationship up until the point where she admitted to loving Hawke.
The morality of our world still very much applies. It just wasn't the relationship you think it was.
Take it with a grain of salt, the dialogue bit I know is true, the kiss option could have been me misinterpreting something or filling in the blanks. 2+2=fish and all that.
You weren't imagining things, random kissing was explicitly confirmed (link) almost 2 years ago.
I really didn't like the LI options in DA2. I mean Isabela is just wrong in so many ways, I don't even... Half of the people you meet know Isabela, because they *cough* before... I mean, its fine I guess. Hawke went in to relationship knowing what kind of person she was... but the fact is that she keeps doing that even in Act 3. I mean I dont know, about most people, if my girlfriend asks someone in front of you that would they like to do her. I would just leave her, then and there, no questions asked. I guess the morality of our world does not apply to theirs.
Oh whatever, I dont care.
I can't remember. Does Isabela actually proposition someone in front of Hawke? I never romanced her.
Well, morality is relative; it differs from culture to culture, society to society. Have you noticed how people don't care about gay people, but would turn their noses up at an interracial relationship between an elf and a human? A sarcastic Ladyhawke pretty much hints at that when she jokingly tells Merrill of how she would like to scandalize the neighbors.
It did help very much with RP'ing and immersion too, sometimes it made sense to hug or kiss your LI before/after uncertain events, bad news, nasty experiences etc.
I can't remember. Does Isabela actually proposition someone in front of Hawke?
Zevran, I believe. (I really don't blame her. I mean, it's Zevran!) You get the option for a threesome.
Zevran, I believe. (I really don't blame her. I mean, it's Zevran!) You get the option for a threesome.
Oh, that's right. There's an option for a foursome.
I can't remember. Does Isabela actually proposition someone in front of Hawke? I never romanced her.
Well, morality is relative; it differs from culture to culture, society to society. Have you noticed how people don't care about gay people, but would turn their noses up at an interracial relationship between an elf and a human? A sarcastic Ladyhawke pretty much hints at that when she jokingly tells Merrill of how she would like to scandalize the neighbors.
Zevran. I found it quite annoying, and my Hawke only joined in to keep an eye on her. But then again - it WAS Zevran.
Zevran. I found it quite annoying, and my Hawke only joined in to keep an eye on her.
That's a pretty interesting excuse for a gangbang threesome.
"Yeah, ok, hon, if you really have to, you can sleep with my best friend. But I have to join to keep an eye on you."
Zevran. I found it quite annoying, and my Hawke only joined in to keep an eye on her. But then again - it WAS Zevran.
Of course. Someone had to hold the camera.
This is why i kind of think romance in games should be left unsaid, or simply hinted at without showing to much meaningful interaction. The fans then want more, like entire re-writes to a spouse characters dialog, if or if they aren't in a relationship with the main character. It kind of derails the story if the writer has to write entirely didn't dialog for each potential love interest in the group should they happen to be near by when x y z happens. Something about this topic makes me think of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2, where in I was apparently put into a relationship without even realizing thats what was happening simply because i spoke with a character and wanted the best approval rating with her so i could train her as a Jedi. Then every character starts saying i have feelings for this character and im like "What really?" i just wanted to be her friend and train her in the force, now im practically married to her?
I dunno if you have seen the latest post on IGN but bioware talks about this.
I dunno if you have seen the latest post on IGN but bioware talks about this.
Here's the link: http://www.ign.com/a...d-relationships
Guest_Puddi III_*
The Isabella romance may be my favorite Bioware romance ever. I think the only one that can come close is Jack, but I never made it through ME2 as a male Shepard, so I'm not positive.
I feel like people are really giving DA:O too much credit on this. Yes, you could go up to Leiliana (for example) and kiss her in camp, ask to turn in together for the nigh etc, but it was always exactly the same dialogue, the same kiss animation. It still didn't feel like you were in a relationship at all. Basically, the romance storyline was over by that time, except for a short talk at the Denerim city gates before your final four depart to fight the Archdemon. DA2 meanwhile keeps the storyline going over the course of the game, but at the expense of any direct, 'anytime' sex option at home. But with the party banter acknowledging the romance more, and the fact that it persists and evolves over the 3 Acts, I still prefer DA2's approach.
Not that I think Bioware have ever really got this thing nailed down. For all the attention that the fans pay to the romance angle, and given that people have been callling on them to do it better since forever, its not like they haven't had plenty of opportunities. Yet they continually produce underwhelming and unfulfilling romances, or reasonably promising romances which abruptly stop and lack any further content etc. Its actually a symptom of how little your characters interact with each other. Sure, you can talk to people about the issues that matter to them, move their quests along etc. But scenes where its just you and the character (or even rarer mutiple characters) just knocking about and hanging out, are extremely rare. Basically, Bioware have learned they need to have some scenes like this, but LI characters tend not to get much more lines or animations than they would have done anyway during these scenes.
We've told Bioware this many, many, many times, but they never seem to get the message. For romances to truly matter in the way that people want them to, you need to put in scenes throughout the game that show the relationship, change up key sequences to reflect whether characters are together or not. The old saying of 'don't tell us - show us' applies. Talking to other characters and having them comment on the relationship is one thing, but actually seeing the characters together and speaking, interacting in a noticeably more familiar way during scenes that aren't necessarily anything to do with romance, is surely the way to do it. So we don't have the situation where the characters are only intimate during designated 'ROMANCE SCENE moments.
Now, you could say that there's really no excuse for how lame the romances have been over the years. Seeing Mike Laidlaw talk about people wanting to see relationships that feel realistic like its some amazing revelation he's just come to, is embarassing. People have been asking for them to take this more seriously for decades! But the occasional slip through the PR net has given the truth to the lie - i.e that the writers don't really like writing romance and would rather not do it at all, if they could get away with it. Well tough - they have to accept that the romance angle is (quite obviously if you look at just these forums alone) important to a great many people. But fans of good storytelling wince in horror whenever romance is mentioned, because they always *always* make such a horrible, unsatisfactory mess of it. There's never enough content, it doesn't feel realistic enough, it happens too quickly etc etc.
Because the romances do unlock too quickly (and by this, I don't just mean the actual conclusion of the romance - usually, even the earliest of conversations with LI characters are blatantly just 'preparing the way' prelims for the 'main event' later. It makes the characters feel like 'Hey, they're into you - its obvious' followed by 'Here's your chance to help them out and get this show on the road' setting the final 'You helped them out, they feel they have a connection with you that they never expected etc etc etc - SHAZAM!' Instead of this silly formula, I want to be able to talk to the characters properly, without the game constantly trying to hit you over the head with 'THIS IS A LOVE INTEREST CHARACTER - ARE YOU INTERESTED?' I want to be able to talk to Cassandra etc about the threat before us etc, without having the conversation hi-jacked by her mentioning an overbearing father or long lost brother or whatever, which is basically the game acting as your wingman saying 'Take this stuff down - it'll come in handy later when you're making your move, my man...' Romance is fine, but don't reduce LI characters to only being that - it often feels like the LI characters have nothing at all to say if you aren't in a relationship with them.
I think there's a balance to be struck on the part of writers and gamers here. The writers have to accept that they haven't met the needs of the fans on romances and that whether they like it or not, this is something that matters greatly to many of their hardcore fans. After all, having optional romances with any kind of depth is still pretty much a unique selling point for their games, as its something (dating sim) outside of very specialized games, and placing it in more mainstream products. But on the other hand, the fans need to accept that romance literature, like dating sims is a very niche market usually, and its not unreasonable for writers of more traditional science fiction and fantasy etc, to be reluctant and/or feel ill equipped to tackle this kind of thing. Especially when games fans get so up in arms whenever writers are brought in who don't necessariy care about games themselves etc.
I just think both sides need to be aware of the realities here. Whether they like it or not, or feel up to it or not, the writers have to do this now - its long since passed the point of no return for romances in their games. Its here to stay, so they're going to have to try and get better at it. For the fans, we need to realize that writing romance is a specific genre of its own in literatire, with its own set of writers. Frankly, most of the writing staff probably *really* don't want to write romance and would rather be writing the battles, and politiics etc etc. This is likely to be outside their comfort zone (even if concerning their own sexual orientation or whatever), so we should manage our expectations accordingly. Bioware have never delivered on this yet, but given the circumstances, we've probably gotten about as good as could be expected.
Something most people can agree on would be the option for date nights. Just to go out get to know a character within a video without putting your physical self in any emotional harm unlike that pesky real life experience.
Oh, and parties. I don't care if it's in game or in future dlc, I want to see the inquisition go out on pub crawl and just have fun. If this was a option after the game (if you haven't destroy the world) that would be a perfect opportunity to celebrate.
I WANT TO SEE THIS SCENE IN GAME
I felt like in DA2 I never had much of a relationship with Merrill. She lived with me, but I never really saw her, and outside our one sex scene and "I love you in case I die" dialogue scene in the ending... It just felt very empty.
Whereas in DA:O, I grabbed my LI whenever I damn well pleased and kissed them no matter who was watching!
Guest_Danielle100_*
The thing is, just being able to kiss them and say 'Hey, I still love you' doesn't make you feel like you have a relationship with this character, any more than Skyrim or Fable's utterly vapid 'relationships'. You can have sex with them, and they'll call you 'love' and 'dear; and all that, but is that all being in a relationship is to the people at games companies?! Sure, in Bioware's there is a meaningful bulld-up - I'm not suggesting for one second that it isn't better than the above mentioned games at *establishing* the relationship, and on what basis your characters are attracted to each other etc.
But the end result is the same - once the relationship is locked in, then the content ends. The spouse/partner just becomes a doll that you can cuddle now and then and receive pleasing responses from. Its well known that most TV series that feature romances, often leave the romance eternally at the will they/won't they stage. And when it finally does happen and the characters get together, its not uncommon for them to break up again instantly, or have one of them die etc etc. Because writers have *no* idea how to write actual relationships, because relationships are generally seen as 'settling down' and that is antithetical to what the heroes/stars/protagonists in shows, games etc are all about.
They really need to get their act together on this. Their attitude on romances between games also, strikes at the cardinal sin of their games, the thing I dislike the most - choices not being respected. Unlike many people, I don't get all worked up when certain choices are automated and made for me - the plot has to advance, and they can't account for everything. But my rules on this are clear:
1) If you are going to force a choice or event on us, then you must justify it properly, and not just blow us off with some lame excuse. People take choice very seriously. If you are going to take that away, then we must understand the reasons why. For the record I feel they did this reasonably well in The Arrival for ME2's big decision, but extremely poorly on the whole 'Shepard gives us her whole life, friends family and career she has devoted herself to - to join Cerberus, who have given no evidence *at all* of why she should do anything of the sort.
2) If you do give us a choice (of partner say, for the sake of this argument, level of commitment to that partner, advice to them on how to proceed with various choices they are pondering etc etc), then you *must* respect that. You gave us the choice, so don't just say 'Well, you chose, but we don't agree, so we changed it'. Having partners just leave you off screen and/or Bioware declaring 'You had your seperate paths and your relationship couldn't last in the face of duty etc etc, is just utterly deflating. Its basically Bioware saying 'We know you wanted your characters to be together, but we need this popular character to be like *this* now, and to be *here*, so we had to split them up, but hey, you never know...'
Its hard to care about these things if you think that Bioware will just release later games that invalidate what you did. And that's without touching on the whole thorny issue of 'canon' novels and comics in a series where your choices make up the canon. You can say 'hey, its not canon, so who cares?' But in the case of KOTOR for example, the existance of the 'Revan' book has killed any chance of a proper KOTOR 3 game. Where they basically said 'You had your canon for the first 2 installments, but to finish the story, we're only going to present *our* version of what happened'. And to a lesser extent, that is what is happening in all their sequels and spin-offs like Awkaening, Cullen in DA2 and DA:I. Leliana in those games, Zevran and Leliana being miraculously alive if they were previously killed etc etc. Its Bioware saying 'Regardless of what you chose regarding this, this and this and these characters, here's what *actually* happened.,
In such an environment, I just think 'Why get invested in this romance or that romance?' Because if it suits them to do so, they'll just change it so it didn't happen, didn't work out or didn't matter in subsequent games. No, life doesn't always work out as you want it, but you should at least get the chance to try and make it work with the partner of your choice. Otherwise, why bother giving us the choice in the first place?!
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