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[Han Shot First]

You know, this talk about the all-human council made me think back to Mass Effect when it was in better days, it's a pity to see the direction where Mass Effect eventualy ended up being.

 

I think the sequels got it right in ditching the all human Council. Lore-wise that never made sense. At the end of Mass Effect 1 the Alliance had 6 dreadnoughts, compared to a total of 74 for the Turians, Asari, and Salarians. And that's just taking into account the species with Council seats, never mind the Elcor or the Volus or the Hanar. The Alliance was far too outnumbered and outgunned to be able to strongarm its way into a human-dominated galaxy. 

 

If anything the series needed less Humans Are Special, not more.

[ImaginaryMatter]

 

I think the sequels got it right in ditching the all human Council. Lore-wise that never made sense. At the end of Mass Effect 1 the Alliance had 6 dreadnoughts, compared to a total of 74 for the Turians, Asari, and Salarians. And that's just taking into account the species with Council seats, never mind the Elcor or the Volus or the Hanar. The Alliance was far too outnumbered and outgunned to be able to strongarm its way into a human-dominated galaxy. 

 

If anything the series needed less Humans Are Special, not more.

 

Not to mention that organizations involved in the running of intra-galactic policy, like C-Sec, are almost exclusively ran by non-humans.

[SporkFu]

Not to mention that organizations involved in the running of intra-galactic policy, like C-Sec, are almost exclusively ran by non-humans.

Doesn't Bailey say, in ME2, that C-Sec ranks were being filled by humans because the previous force was devastated by Saren's attack? I mean, regardless of who's on the council?

[Fixers0]

 

I think the sequels got it right in ditching the all human Council. Lore-wise that never made sense. At the end of Mass Effect 1 the Alliance had 6 dreadnoughts, compared to a total of 74 for the Turians, Asari, and Salarians. And that's just taking into account the species with Council seats, never mind the Elcor or the Volus or the Hanar. The Alliance was far too outnumbered and outgunned to be able to strongarm its way into a human-dominated galaxy. 

 

The all-human council wasn't fully retconnend until Mass Effect 3. At one point, Mass Effect  2 refers to 'former council races' which implies multiple races have been evicted from the council somewhere between Mass Effect and mass Effect 2.

 

That aside though, The council being all-human doesn't necessarily have to mean that humanity pulls all the strings, as is implied by the game itself, Humanity just stepped into the power vacuum that was created shortly after the loss of the council and the citadel fleets. Indeed, should the council perish the narrative is quite clear about it's implications. And while said implications might be at conflict with certain pieces of information, they can not be easily disregared. Thus when the narrative directly tells us that the Citadel fleets were decimated and that the Alliance is a position to exercise power, we can't invalidate it by citing a few pieces of background information. After all, at no point does the narrative provide any information that would directly invalidate the creation of an all human council if the coucil and it's fleets were to be wiped out in a sudden attack. Most of the information  regarding military strenght is implied through  context rather than by direct statements, and the codex, by it's very nature, is a secondary resource.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Doesn't Bailey say, in ME2, that C-Sec ranks were being filled by humans because the previous force was devastated by Saren's attack? I mean, regardless of who's on the council?

 

I was talking from a ME1 perspective.

[SporkFu]

I was talking from a ME1 perspective.

I understand that, but the option to have an all-human council doesn't even come up until the end of ME1. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

I understand that, but the option to have an all-human council doesn't even come up until the end of ME1. 

 

What do you mean? That where the idea was introduced.

[SporkFu]

 

What do you mean? That where the idea was introduced.

Isn't that towards the end of ME1?

[capn233]

Smallest population, besides the Quarians. Its fleets and economy are absolutely dwarfed by the Turians, Asari, and Salarians. Its technology level is also below. The Turians would've just gone and conquer Earth and subjugate humanity within a couple weeks, without the Salarians and Asari to tell them to hold up and not go conquering the new guys.
 

 

Where is your codex information on Human population coming from?  I remembered the bit about a sleeping giant, which is as follows:

 

 

The Council regards the Alliance as a "sleeping giant". Less than 3% of humans volunteer to serve in their military, a lower proportion than any other species.

From "Systems Alliance: Military Doctrine"

 

The implication being that the Alliance may have less military forces than the Turians, but that this is because it has voluntary service, and only a small portion of the population is in the military.

 

***

 

As far as an "all human council," for all practical purposes it never existed in any Mass Effect game.

[Larry-3]

The Councilors suck. I always save them, but they just suck. Especially that turian and salarian. Tevos is the only good one. She also can get the paramour achievement with me. But the other 3 are just terrible. As soon as a Council world is attacked they do not send the main fleet or any reinforcements. What was the point in joining the Council anyway if they was not going to promise military assistance? I am not racists against aliens but Ashley is right, if our backs are against the wall they abandon us. And they did. By the time everyone was on board to take back Earth it was mostly destroyed. After the war I would have taken some rubble from the surface of Earth and threw it at them, and told them that most of humanities history and culture is now lost. It is not a galactic power for good, it is a ruse to give them power over everyone else.

[Farangbaa]

The Councilors suck. I always save them, but they just suck. Especially that turian and salarian. Tevos is the only good one. She also can get the paramour achievement with me. But the other 3 are just terrible. As soon as a Council world is attacked they do not send the main fleet or any reinforcements. What was the point in joining the Council anyway if they was not going to promise military assistance? I am not racists against aliens but Ashley is right, if our backs are against the wall they abandon us. And they did. By the time everyone was on board to take back Earth it was mostly destroyed. After the war I would have taken some rubble from the surface of Earth and threw it at them, and told them that most of humanities history and culture is now lost. It is not a galactic power for good, it is a ruse to give them power over everyone else.

 

You want to paramour half the galaxy it seems

 

btw, it would've been ridiculous if Udina asked the other races for help to take back Earth and they would immediatly say: "ALRIGHT SHEPARD!!! We abondon our own planets to save yours". 

[Display Name Owner]

The Councilors suck. I always save them, but they just suck. Especially that turian and salarian. Tevos is the only good one. She also can get the paramour achievement with me. But the other 3 are just terrible. As soon as a Council world is attacked they do not send the main fleet or any reinforcements. What was the point in joining the Council anyway if they was not going to promise military assistance? I am not racists against aliens but Ashley is right, if our backs are against the wall they abandon us. And they did. By the time everyone was on board to take back Earth it was mostly destroyed. After the war I would have taken some rubble from the surface of Earth and threw it at them, and told them that most of humanities history and culture is now lost. It is not a galactic power for good, it is a ruse to give them power over everyone else.

 

Right, well, what about Palaven? And the many other planets being laid waste to in Council space. And also, the point that gets driven home throughout the whole of ME3 is that they couldn't defeat the Reapers conventionally anyway. Throwing forces at Earth would be a waste because they'd only get decimated and leave everywhere else to attack. Even if they could pull it off, what's liberating Earth going to do when the galaxy as a whole is getting rolled all over?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The Councilors suck. I always save them, but they just suck. Especially that turian and salarian. Tevos is the only good one. She also can get the paramour achievement with me. But the other 3 are just terrible. As soon as a Council world is attacked they do not send the main fleet or any reinforcements. What was the point in joining the Council anyway if they was not going to promise military assistance? I am not racists against aliens but Ashley is right, if our backs are against the wall they abandon us. And they did. By the time everyone was on board to take back Earth it was mostly destroyed. After the war I would have taken some rubble from the surface of Earth and threw it at them, and told them that most of humanities history and culture is now lost. It is not a galactic power for good, it is a ruse to give them power over everyone else.

The Reapers were a special case; an existential threat. They aren't some typical enemy that can be fought with standard tactics and logistics. 

You can't blame them, especially the Turians, for not rushing to save one planet when their own are under siege. Earth was lost by the time Shepard even made it to the Citadel. Taking it back would've meant nothing. 

[Fayfel]

Chris L'Etoile elaborated on the relationship between the Council and humanity ( years after he stopped working on Mass Effect even ) in a post on another forum. Some of that conversation is relevant here. I'll try to provide some context and hopefully the formatting doesn't blow up

 

[Humanity is special]

 

But it's all from the humans, and they can't back it up.

 

The Alliance is a "Third Galaxy" power, and as a species humans are weaker and softer than the krogan, less wise and less biotic than the asari, slower and less intelligent than than the salarians, and less organized and disciplined than the turians. If they try to seize power in the ME1 ending, the result is a galaxy with a lot more prejudice against them and brushfire wars breaking out everywhere (listen to the news on the Citadel).

 

[Humans defeated the turians]

 

By responding quickly and with force. The turians outnumbered them by thousands to one.

 

[Other races fear humanity as a result]

 

They s*%# themselves because they realized, "Oh f*%#, the turians are going to pound these yokels into the stone age, and we haven't even had a chance to talk to them yet." The turians only understand total war - complete commitment of all state resources until the enemy lies prostrate and offers unconditional surrender. The human counterattack, without our knowing it, had just provoked that level of threat response.

 

The Council intervened to save us, not the turians.

 

Or at least that was the way I left it. ME3 could spin it differently - in which case that would be canon, and I'd be talking out of my ass more than usual.

 

[The codex says how awesome humans are (carriers, mobility, small military %)]

 

All true. But remember that their population and resources are roughly equal to those of the elcor. The problem is, if they mobilize there's real potential for a war of Krogan Rebellions level savagery. Neither the turians nor the humans know when to swallow their pride and walk away.

 

I think you're confusing something. The humans have no advantages of economy or biology. All they have is the hunger of youth. Council Space is complacent. They're wealthy beyond measure and untouchably powerful. They don't need to work for anything, they're coasting on the profits of their earlier investments. They've made it. The Alliance is like the Imperial Germany before WWI. "We'll do anything to share the prestige of our older neighbors, even if it means getting into a naval race we can't afford with the British and colonizing the crap islands in the Pacific that no one else wanted!"

 

 

[The aliens fleets were useless, humans saved the Citadel in ME1]

 

That's not quite accurate. The Council Fleet isn't useless - it's scattered. The Council peacekeeping fleets couldn't respond because they're out policing half the galaxy. It take time to organize and reorient for a counterattack. Meantime we only have a handfull of colonization clusters to defend, so we keep all our forces in a few big clumps. One of which was real close to the Citadel relay.

 

God damn I miss Chris' vision of Mass Effect.

[Fixers0]

The Councilors suck. I always save them, but they just suck. Especially that turian and salarian. Tevos is the only good one. She also can get the paramour achievement with me. But the other 3 are just terrible. As soon as a Council world is attacked they do not send the main fleet or any reinforcements. What was the point in joining the Council anyway if they was not going to promise military assistance? I am not racists against aliens but Ashley is right, if our backs are against the wall they abandon us. And they did. By the time everyone was on board to take back Earth it was mostly destroyed. After the war I would have taken some rubble from the surface of Earth and threw it at them, and told them that most of humanities history and culture is now lost. It is not a galactic power for good, it is a ruse to give them power over everyone else.

 

I useally let them die, not even necessarily because they're useless( though that certainly is a point in the more bitter playthroughs), but mostly because I simply won't endanger the lives of my fellow Alliance sailors for the lives of the Council. In other playthroughs I just consider stoping Sovereign a greater priority than safing the Council.

[PunMaster]

 

 

Proof please,

 

 

It was stated in ME3 either through dialogue or codex (Don't quite remember which) that the Asari were actually the most technologically advanced. They found the planted tech before everyone else and while that doesn't instantly mean their technology is better than everyone elses, I'm pretty sure it's implied. If I find the dialogue or codex entry, I'll paste it.

 

 

I'd like to know how you got an all human council.

 

Well the Citadel was under attack by Cerberus, Shepard shrugged and went on vacation. Cerberus took over and now the illusive man is the council, with three holograms of himself.

[Fixers0]

It was stated in ME3 either through dialogue or codex (Don't quite remember which) that the Asari were actually the most technologically advanced. They found the planted tech before everyone else and while that doesn't instantly mean their technology is better than everyone elses, I'm pretty sure it's implied. If I find the dialogue or codex entry, I'll paste it.

 

Remaining in context with my initial  point, though It was never proven as such that said technological superiority alone would give them any noticeable military advantage.

[ZipZap2000]

It is explained several times through dialogue that the Asari have superior technology. But it's also explained through dialogue that they have largely abandoned conventional warfare and prefer diplomacy.

 

"About as useful as ****** on a Hanar" I think is the phrase that gets used by Matriarch Aethyta.  

[Larry-3]

You want to paramour half the galaxy it seems

 

btw, it would've been ridiculous if Udina asked the other races for help to take back Earth and they would immediatly say: "ALRIGHT SHEPARD!!! We abondon our own planets to save yours". 

 

No just Tevos. But each of the council races had at least 3 fleets. Just look at your war assets list. The turians and salarians could have sent their 2nd and 3rd fleets and left both their 1st fleets to defend their home. In the end it did not matter because both of them ended up sending all of their fleets.

[Larry-3]

Right, well, what about Palaven? And the many other planets being laid waste to in Council space. And also, the point that gets driven home throughout the whole of ME3 is that they couldn't defeat the Reapers conventionally anyway. Throwing forces at Earth would be a waste because they'd only get decimated and leave everywhere else to attack. Even if they could pull it off, what's liberating Earth going to do when the galaxy as a whole is getting rolled all over?

 

Is bleeding out one by one preferable to standing together. Who needs the crucible anyway? They should have hit the Reapers with continuous EMP's and Ion rounds. Then when they are disabled just shoot them until they break.

[Larry-3]

I useally let them die, not even necessarily because they're useless( though that certainly is a point in the more bitter playthroughs), but mostly because I simply won't endanger the lives of my fellow Alliance sailors for the lives of the Council. In other playthroughs I just consider stoping Sovereign a greater priority than safing the Council.

 

I do not like Councli, but what about all the war asset you lose and the galaxy at large? I seen what its like when you let them die. All the aliens end up being passive-aggressive and or hating humans, and the news broad cast become less than nice.

[Antmarch456]

What happened to. udina's all-human council in ME3? Did alien diplomats created a political heat-up with Udnina, forcing him to make a council with different species?

[Mordokai]

What happened to. udina's all-human council in ME3? Did alien diplomats created a political heat-up with Udnina, forcing him to make a council with different species?

 

Bioware realized how retarded the idea of all human council and alien species not doing anything about it was in the first place and quietly retconned it.

[Antmarch456]

Bioware realized how retarded the idea of all human council and alien species not doing anything about it was in the first place and quietly retconned it.

I'm sorry but I thought this was a game where the choices I make impacts the game.

Bioware could've at least put some sort of human dominance and maybe make more people hostile towards Shepard (though that wouldn't be ideal) for preserving human interest.

[Reorte]

I'm sorry but I thought this was a game where the choices I make impacts the game.

Bioware could've at least put some sort of human dominance and maybe make more people hostile towards Shepard (though that wouldn't be ideal) for preserving human interest.

But some choices shouldn't have ever been there in the first place. The idea of humans getting any sort of dominance is so ridiculous it's best forgotten.