1029 réponses à ce sujet

[lil yonce]

That article doesn't really make a good case for Carroll being wrong about calling the pass on 2nd down, though it's pretty good on how the Seahawks got into a mess there in the first place. Lynch hasn't actually been automatic this season in that situation, IIRC.

I didn't say it said he was wrong, I said it was good in explaining is thought process. There is an opinion thrown in, but I didn't say it was automatically right. The good explanation was this part: 

 

"The thought process is:

 

If you run the ball on 2nd and goal and don't get it, you have to call your final timeout with about 20 seconds left. Then you almost have to pass the ball on 3rd down because the game could end if Lynch gets tackled in play. Even worse, the Patriots know you have to pass.

But if you pass the ball on 2nd and goal and don't get it, you can save your timeout and run it on 3rd down. If you don't get it on 3rd down, you can use your timeout and run it again on 4th down if you want. Pete Carroll's explanation came down to this: We didn't call a running play on 2nd down because wanted to call a running play on 3rd down, when we could get our goal-line personnel onto the field and have a more favorable rushing matchup."

 

I do agree with this part: "The obvious comeback to that logic is: Just run it on 2nd down! The Seahawks have the best rushing attack in the league by a comfortable margin. Marshawn Lynch is the best active running back in the NFL; you need to give him the ball with the game on the line," but I didn't say it was automatically right.

 

And apparently many of the Seattle players did not like the call either: http://bleacherrepor...ynch-conspiracy

 

Its a hard call to agree w/ for me in the moment.

 

And I still can't say that Brady is greater than Montana. I saw Seattle play way off New England's receivers in zone defense, they gave up everything underneath, didn't get as much pressure on Brady late and let him step up in the pocket at the end of the game on those key drives in doing so. Jermery Lane getting injured early and leaving the game really hurt the Seattle defense. They could have played more man defense with Lane, I think. Simon got burned again and again. i watched the fourth quarter w/ family and we were all saying, "Is the Seattle defense going to show up to play?" To us it was like they didn't because of scheme and personnel. They knew the pass was coming and they could not stop it. Yes, Brady executed in the fourth quarter, but I don't see GOAT in that performance and if NE lost the game on that last Seattle drive, almost nobody would be willing to call him the GOAT.

 

But that's just my opinion. Obviously, I love Brady, I'm a Pats fan. And I hope we repeat next year.

[smoke and mirrors]

If I were Tom Brady, I wouldn't be happy with Tom Brady Sr. for making these comments:
http://www.cbssports...-in-new-england
True or not, it's not Dad's business to say...
Age will fortunately not be an issue for the Seahawks for a while, Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman are both 26, Marshawn Lynch, who is being offed a generous contract extension, is 28. The whole team mostly in their mid and late twenties. Plenty of time to get back to where they were last year, I hope.
The Arizona Cardinals and Philadelphia Eagles will probably be credible threats again. I'm not so sure about the Broncos and Cowboys. I'm looking forward to next season...

 

Two things might hold back the Hawks Katie , hunger and the cap . Success brings player wanting more money and that leads to not being able to afford everyone . Wilson is going to want to be paid like a SB wining QB .

[Katiefrost]

those records mean nothing had Butler not made that interception

Apparently Tom Brady is very grateful to Malcolm Butler: http://bleacherrepor...-bowl-mvp-truck

[themikefest]

Apparently Tom Brady is very grateful to Malcolm Butler: http://bleacherrepor...-bowl-mvp-truck

If I was Butler, I would rather have his pay check. 

[Katiefrost]

Two things might hold back the Hawks Katie , hunger and the cap . Success brings player wanting more money and that leads to not being able to afford everyone . Wilson is going to want to be paid like a SB wining QB .

At least the cap has gone up, but it will be challenging: http://www.king5.com...-2015/22809357/
We won't be the only ones with cap issues. Arizona is projected to be 18.6 million over their salary cap in 2015.
I hope they can also keep Kam Chancellor and Jeremy Kearse, among others. We'll see who they can afford to retain.

Edit: Read also what that article says about Seahawks GM John Schneider. He is a very smart man.

[Elhanan]

Personally, agree with the call to pass, but disagree with the chosen pattern.

But as the reported brawl is more indicative of what is wrong with much of sports today, my interest continues to wane for all of it: millionaires that seem to be oblivious that they get paid to play a game for a living, and are deserving of some special status. I am grateful that this is not indicative of all, but their numbers continue to increase.

[Katiefrost]

Seahawks linebacker Bruce Irvin apologizes:
http://www.si.com/nf...-fight-ejection
Football not only challenges a player to do their best to win and win fairly, but to be dignified when necessary in defeat. I hope summer training will also include discussions about anger management. Football can be good for character development.

I shouldn't laugh, but the Gronk's description of what happened is funny.


I'm not real fond of the Patriots right now (it's not personal), but I do like this guy. I wish he was a Seahawk. I have Gronk envy for my team.

[Elhanan]

I fault Players on both sides for this brawl; NE for not simply taking a knee, and the Seahawks for allowing their tempers to win over better behavior. But I still like both teams more than Jimmy Kimmel....

[Katiefrost]

For those who didn't get enough of Katy Perry 
http://www.katyperry.com/

[Jorji Costava]

And I still can't say that Brady is greater than Montana. I saw Seattle play way off New England's receivers in zone defense, they gave up everything underneath, didn't get as much pressure on Brady late and let him step up in the pocket at the end of the game on those key drives in doing so. Jermery Lane getting injured early and leaving the game really hurt the Seattle defense. They could have played more man defense with Lane, I think. Simon got burned again and again. i watched the fourth quarter w/ family and we were all saying, "Is the Seattle defense going to show up to play?" To us it was like they didn't because of scheme and personnel. They knew the pass was coming and they could not stop it. Yes, Brady executed in the fourth quarter, but I don't see GOAT in that performance and if NE lost the game on that last Seattle drive, almost nobody would be willing to call him the GOAT.

 

Let me give an example for why I would still make the case for Brady: Joe Montana's performance in Super Bowl XXIII, capped off with a 92-yard game winning drive, is probably the most legendary of his career. But the big news heading into that game was that Stanley Wilson, the Cincinatti Bengals' best blocking back, was suspended for using cocaine in his hotel the night before the game, a major distraction for the team. On the 14th play of the game, Bengals nose tackle Tim Krumrie (probably their best defensive player), went out with a gruesome injury. And early in the fourth quarter with the 49ers trailing 13-6, Joe Montana threw a pass directly to the chest of Bengals cornerback Lewis Billups, but Billups flat out dropped the pass.

 

What happens is that as the careers of the old-time greats fade further into the past, we just remember their highlights and forget the times when they played poorly or got lucky, whereas with guys like Brady, we see the highs and lows. So we end up comparing Brady's whole career to just the highlights of Montana or Unitas. Everybody remembers the Tuck rule, Brady's Super Bowl losses to the Giants,etc., but few people talk about Unitas' streak of 9 years without winning a playoff game (including a 27-0 loss to the underdog Browns in 1964), or Montana's three straight playoff one-and-done's from 1985-87(including an '87 playoff game in which the 13-2 49ers got blown out by the 8-7 Vikings; Montana played so badly in this game that he was benched (!) by halftime).

 

The point is that you can punch holes in everyone's resume as long as you want. But if we apply consistent standards, then I still think Brady comes out on top. Four SB wins, six appearances, and averaging 12 wins per year without having the most stacked teams in terms of talent lead me to think this.

 

I fault Players on both sides for this brawl; NE for not simply taking a knee, and the Seahawks for allowing their tempers to win over better behavior. But I still like both teams more than Jimmy Kimmel....

 

If I recall, the Patriots were so deep in their endzone that taking a knee would have resulted in a safety (which would mean that the Patriots would have to kick the ball back to the Seahawks). The enroachment penalty was the best thing that could have happened to the Patriots in that situation.

[Elhanan]

... 
 
If I recall, the Patriots were so deep in their endzone that taking a knee would have resulted in a safety (which would mean that the Patriots would have to kick the ball back to the Seahawks). The enroachment penalty was the best thing that could have happened to the Patriots in that situation.

That does make a difference (did not see the game; only a few clips and articles). But this is unexpected in the Pros; have seen it used frequently in college. Guess I prefer sportsmanship to reign over actions that result in brawls.

[SlottsMachine]

See, this is why I don't think you can compare QB's from different eras. Brady has played most of his career in not just an era where defensive penalties have been called aggressively but also QB's have been getting an excessive amount of preferential treatment. Why'll Montana had much better teammates he was also playing in a much harsher environment. 

[SlottsMachine]

That does make a difference (did not see the game; only a few clips and articles). But this is unexpected in the Pros; have seen it used frequently in college. Guess I prefer sportsmanship to reign over actions that result in brawls.

 

That really wasn't much of a brawl especially considering how devastated the Seahawks players must have been. Would it be better if it didn't come to that? Sure, but it was pretty tame as it was. 

 

 

^Now this is a brawl. 

[lil yonce]

[snip]

The point is that you can punch holes in everyone's resume as long as you want. But if we apply consistent standards, then I still think Brady comes out on top. Four SB wins, six appearances, and averaging 12 wins per year without having the most stacked teams in terms of talent lead me to think this.

I see where you're coming from, but even just a few weeks ago there was still a debate about who was better between Tom Brady and Peyton Manning who also has a bunch of wins but not playoff wins, only 1 Super Bowl victory, and like Brady the past few years, Manning had to do it without a great defense in Indy and we saw the dismantling of Denver's defense in last season's Super Bowl. So I don't think its just about about rings, or most wins, or team talent. That's part of it but not all of it. Just going off performance, and knowing that if Brady lost on the last Seattle drive he would not be the consensus GOAT, I say it wasn't enough to be called the greatest. I think Brady's in the conversation now and if he gets another ring before he retires and plays into his 40s like he wants, I think the case for GOAT is strong.

[Lunch Box1912]

Pete Carrol is doing another interview to explain the final play call. He needs to take one out of Belichicks book and tell the press he has discussed this already and is moving on. I'm so used to seeing crap from the media slung at the Patriots I should be happy they're attacking someone else but this is getting a little rediculous. The guy made the wrong call, it cost his team the Superbowl. He has to live with that everyday, give the guy a break already.

 

Also very interesting audio check out the Boomer Esiason season ending interview on the Toucher and Rich show.

http://sports.cbsloc...o/toucher-rich/

[Dermain]

The guy made the wrong call, it cost his team the Superbowl

 

I'm just going to nitpick this statement.

 

He did not make the "wrong" call. Malcolm Butler (I believe that was his name) just happened to be in the right spot to intercept the ball. Which is not Pete Carrol's fault (or any of the other play callers). Coaches can NOT predict when the football will be intercepted. 

 

Going by most people's logic regarding this issue, the Seahawks (or any team for that matter) should never pass the ball because it can be intercepted.

 

People that continue to make use of hindsight bias to blame Pete Carrol are just being tools.

[Lunch Box1912]

They ran a pick play inside on the one yard line with 30 seconds left in the game. Nobody in their right mind throws to the inside in that situation. He made the wrong call. Are we seriously going to argue this?

[Elhanan]

They ran a pick play inside on the one yard line with 30 seconds left in the game. Nobody in their right mind throws to the inside in that situation. He made the wrong call. Are we seriously going to argue this?

Yep; like the idea of a pass when most are expected to run, but I would have preferred another kind of pass play and formation. As a Titan's fan, I have something personal against throwing at the goal line, esp when in the Superbowl; prefer to use the entire zone.

[lil yonce]

So deflate gate was much ado about nothing. Ian Rappaport reports that the Patriots footballs were never recorded as being 2 PSI under the legal limit. Only one ball out of the twelve was under 2 PSI-- the ball the Colts player caught and brought to the sideline. The other balls were only "just a tick" under 12.5 PSI-- very non-technical language supporting the balls weren't measured-- and it sounds reasonable the balls were a little under in the January cold.

 

Boomer Esiason has a theory about how this started: http://www.breitbart...d-deflate-gate/

[Dermain]

They ran a pick play inside on the one yard line with 30 seconds left in the game. Nobody in their right mind throws to the inside in that situation. He made the wrong call. Are we seriously going to argue this?

 

Which makes the play unexpected. 

 

But yes, let's continue to use hindsight bias. Everyone saw what would happen with that play before it even happened.

[Katiefrost]

This quote is an observation, I made back in October when the Patriots were looking tired. They had just narrowly beaten the New York Jets and they certainly didn't look like Super Bowl contenders then...
 

I'm going to add a bit more about the Patriots and Tom Brady, since this is Tom Brady's 200th regular season NFL game. Coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady came to the New England Patriots in the year 2000. Bill Belichick turned down the head coaching position for the New York Jets to become the New England Patriot's head coach.(that is only one chapter in the very long rivalry between the Jets and the Patriots)  New England went on to win the superbowl in the years 2001, 2003 and 2004. They are the last team to win the superbowl twice in a row. Today, 10 years later, they are a shadow of what they were in 2004. Soon they will continue on with the careful task of drafting and mentoring the new talent that will determine if they can reach for the stars again in some future year.
For now, they are trying to maintain respect, I think. The team's talent has been riddled with injuries:
http://www.patriots....de-e7ff630d8115
I remember thinking at the end of the second quarter that the patriots looked tired. The Jets, not so much.
The fact that this win was so close, over such a weak rival, speaks volumes. The Patriots are going to be on shaky ground for a while.
 
 Tom Brady, twice a superbowl MPV and twice an NFL MVP, can look back on his career with satisfaction.
http://www.patriots....eb-d7eb2227f726
I think he should retire after this season. 37 is old in football years, and he can't do what he did 10 years ago.
But who knows? There are a few NFL quarterbacks who have played into their 40s.
http://wallstcheatsh...html/?a=viewall

What a change...
I wanted to learn more about the game this season and I have certainly have done that.  (I still have a LOT to learn.) Anyone else feeling like they understand the game better?

[Katiefrost]

Pete Carroll is doing another interview to explain the final play call. He needs to take one out of Belicheck's book and tell the press he has discussed this already and is moving on. I'm so used to seeing crap from the media slung at the Patriots I should be happy they're attacking someone else but this is getting a little ridiculous. The guy made the wrong call, it cost his team the Superbowl. He has to live with that everyday, give the guy a break already.

Thanks for pointing this out. I was thinking that if this had been similar to the Olympic games, there would be a gold, silver and bronze medal awarded. The second and third best teams in the NFL would be awarded silver and bronze, respectively. The way it works in reality is that the second and third best teams end up getting more negative attention than some of the mediocre teams who never made the play offs.

I'm not going to discuss the Patriots in detail until I more fully recover my objectivity.    But I will point out that it took a good decade for the Patriots to get back to Super bowl champion status, during which time many people didn't think they could do it with Brady and Belichick. So, critics should take care about the assumptions they make about any team's future.

 

Edit: And yes, Tom Brady has set a very high standard for future quarterbacks. 

[lil yonce]

Tom Brady interview after the Super Bowl. The end was funny:

Spoiler

 

And Julian Edelman takes a shot at Richard Sherman at yesterday's Patriots parade: 

Spoiler

[Katiefrost]

And Julian Edelman takes a shot at Richard Sherman at yesterday's Patriots parade: 

Spoiler

I appreciate the humility and polite attitude Tom Brady showed in his interview. As for Edelman, I can understand why he's trolling Sherman, but it's not like the Patriots have never been presumptuous in the past:

[Katiefrost]

A good discussion on ESPN's First Take: