230 réponses à ce sujet

[J-Reyno]

I don't see why us not getting the chance to kill a character is such a bad thing. Not every character needs to be killable and I really don't understand the people who seem to want that to be an option. 

Pretty much this.

 

I'm personally glad that Isabella manages to escape if you turn her over.  We shouldn't be able to decide the fate of every character BW allows us to interact with.  It's also not strange that she manages to survive.  It is possible for other characters to be competent in their own right even if they are at odds with the almighty PC.

 

Oh... 1000 posts.

[JeffZero]

Congratulations on this momentous occasion, Lazarus.

 

Also, agreed.

[cronshaw]

She escapes if you do so.

Honestly, I blame the Qunari for all those deaths, given that they didn't have to try to take over a city just because one of their relics was stolen. Their drive to invade is not Isabela's fault or responsibility.

I kinda agree with this.
another culpable party are the people who hire Isabella in the first place. She's not entirely blameless but she's more a tool than anything else.
As for the plot armor thing, who can you kill in DA II besides Anders?
I don't usually kill my companions so I don't know

[IAMTHEOVERLORD]

I kinda agree with this.
another culpable party are the people who hire Isabella in the first place. She's not entirely blameless but she's more a tool than anything else.
As for the plot armor thing, who can you kill in DA II besides Anders?
I don't usually kill my companions so I don't know

I know you can kill Merrill if you side with the Templars and don't bother trying to persuade her. I imagine Fenris is probably similar if you side with the Mages.

[Magdalena11]

Not worrying about Izzy's plot armor.  The epilogue states she escaped the qunari even if she was handed up on a platter, and she's a fairly late addition coming in in DA2.  Go back to the Sacred Ashes trailer and look at the featured companions.  Two females with death-defying plot armor (both LIs for males) and one male (who's not romanceable) who merits a trivial aside or 2 in DA2 and who's not likely to be in DAI at all.

 

I don't think Izzy will make an appearance, but I know Lel and Morri will and I know Sten won't.  If the character of Isabela, what she's done, or how she survived bugs folks, at least they can take comfort in knowing that it was only 1 game, not 2 out of 3 or all 3 so far with an option on the whole series.

[cronshaw]

I know you can kill Merrill if you side with the Templars and don't bother trying to persuade her. I imagine Fenris is probably similar if you side with the Mages.

Right I guess I did know that now that you mention it.
What about during the game.
I know you can hand fenris over to danarius
Can you kill merril before she dooms her clan?
I'm just wondering if Isabella is really all that unique in being unkillable
You can't kill Varric
I don't think you can kill Avelline or Sebatian
You can't deliberately kill Carver or Bethany

[InfinitePaths]

*SPOILERS*

 

On the surface Isabella seems like an Immoral selfish person and her actions during the coarse of Dragon Age 2 undoubtabley are.

 

But if you go deep inside her (no pun indended) you will find that actually there's more to her than it seems.She just had an extremely traumatic past that taught her a "survival of the fittest just be selfish" personallity.She's actually a sweetheart at heart.

 

She was sold and used, treated like an object, so after she got out she valued her freedom and was emotionally confused as to where she stands ethically wise.After these events she thought everyone was out for themselves and will hurt her feelings if she lets them close, so she didn't let anyone into her life.

 

As much of a ****** she seems, she couldn't  sell all those slaves before the events of DA2 because deep down she's a good person.

 

She also possibly made a friendship (+50 friendship) or I know you're right so I hate you relationship (+50 rivaly) with Hawke that made her come back with the tome since she felt that she owes it to him/her.She isn't really morally deprived as she makes everyone think(including herself), not really.

 

She becomes aware of her mistakes and the wrongs she did if in her final companion mission if you kill Castion.She realises that her actions have concequences and actually turns into a somewhat morally normal person.She finally lets her friends and potential love(Hawke) into her life and makes connections and loyal friendships with people.

 

Her character development is amazing as she changes as a person over the three acts.

 

 

She is my favourite Dragon Age character and I bow to her writer in respect for making such an amazingly complex character.

[JeffZero]

You can indeed kill Fenris and are railroaded into doing so depending on the circumstances. I narrowly avoided that during my playthrough of the game, apparently.

[Razored1313]

Some people here seem to be disregarding a few things...in all the years the qunari were in Kirkwall, they were treated like monsters by the populace and had MANY hate crimes committed against them and the arishok took it in stride for the most part. He wasn't trying to convert Kirkwall to the qun at first but people like petrice and ser varnell kept pushing and attacking his men and after 3 years of it he snapped. He straight up says "the provocations we have suffered have worked". I blame the timeskips, because of them what is years in game feels like hours to us so we lose focus of the issues. As for isabela, she is definitely the companion I hated the most and if giving her over to the qun would have worked I would have done so.....but she isn't fully to blame for the qunari attack. She certainly played a role and the deaths are definetly on her head, but only in part. The blame also extends to the Kirkwall government for not controlling their people better, the radicals who wanted a holy war or just hated the qun and killed many innocent qunari over the years, and the qunari themselves for keeping their reasons for being in Kirkwall secret and eventually losing it.

[CENIC]

The fact that she escapes custody even if you turn her over to the Arishok makes me think that she was intended to return... perhaps for a DA2 DLC that never saw the light of day?

"Estwatch" was one of the hinted DLC locations, and it's a no-man's-land island that is frequented by raiders off the eastern coast of the Free Marches. Perhaps Hawke was meant to visit that location and if s/he betrayed Isabela she would be waiting there to exact revenge.

Now that all DA2 DLC has been scrapped, of course, that doesn't mean she will show up in Inquisition. Not everything from the planned DA2 expansion made it into Inquisition, and personal plots for Hawke and/or his/her companions were probably the first things to be cut entirely.

[wright1978]

Wasnt pretty much every character in DA2 pretty flawed...except Varric and Aveline? All of them pretty much caused directly or indirectly, death and destruction at some point in their lives...
At any rate, not dure what armor you are referring to...did you see something in DAI promo material someone who looked like Isabella?
I think Isabella will be referred to and used by Varric as a resource in DAI.

Yeah agree completely with this. Apparently showing enterprise and escaping the big idiot lunkheads puts her above other da2 companions that can't be potentially dead for some people.

Personally I adore everything about izzy and really hope she does appear in DAI, especially as by the sounds of it her hawke is going to be making an appearance.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Some people here seem to be disregarding a few things...in all the years the qunari were in Kirkwall, they were treated like monsters by the populace and had MANY hate crimes committed against them and the arishok took it in stride for the most part. He wasn't trying to convert Kirkwall to the qun at first but people like petrice and ser varnell kept pushing and attacking his men and after 3 years of it he snapped. He straight up says "the provocations we have suffered have worked". I blame the timeskips, because of them what is years in game feels like hours to us so we lose focus of the issues. As for isabela, she is definitely the companion I hated the most and if giving her over to the qun would have worked I would have done so.....but she isn't fully to blame for the qunari attack. She certainly played a role and the deaths are definetly on her head, but only in part. The blame also. extends to the Kirkwall government for not controlling their people better, the radicals who wanted a holy war or just hated the qun and killed many innocent qunari over the years, and the qunari themselves for keeping their reasons for being in Kirkwall secret and eventually losing it.

 

I agree with this.  Except hating Isabela, I liked her despite having every reason not to.  The events in Kirkwall were the result of a multitude of failures.  For me, blame is always greatest on 'he who lifts the axe that takes the head'.  Every individual has choices in any given situation.

[Nerevar-as]

Isabella knew why the qunari were there, you couln´t press her about why she was so aprehensive of them (Hawke idiotic default sadly), and just looked out for her own skin. The relic could have been found and handed to the qunari before they reached the boiling point if she had come clean.

 

Sten steps into the arishok´s position in Gaider´s default, so I think he´s still going to be significant in the future.

[Beerfish]

Some people here seem to be disregarding a few things...in all the years the qunari were in Kirkwall, they were treated like monsters by the populace and had MANY hate crimes committed against them and the arishok took it in stride for the most part.He wasn't trying to convert Kirkwall to the qun at first but people like petrice and ser varnell kept pushing and attacking his men and after 3 years of it he snapped. He straight up says "the provocations we have suffered have worked". I blame the timeskips, because of them what is years in game feels like hours to us so we lose focus of the issues. As for isabela, she is definitely the companion I hated the most and if giving her over to the qun would have worked I would have done so.....but she isn't fully to blame for the qunari attack. She certainly played a role and the deaths are definetly on her head, but only in part. The blame also extends to the Kirkwall government for not controlling their people better, the radicals who wanted a holy war or just hated the qun and killed many innocent qunari over the years, and the qunari themselves for keeping their reasons for being in Kirkwall secret and eventually losing it.

(Treated as monsters because they were just sitting there doing nothing as the viscount said like Gargoyles, the Qunari are well known to be invaders and converters, anyone would be nervous.  They were treated very well by the powers in charge, a whole section of the city was given to them.  You will have to fill me in on the MANY hate crimes, other than the petrice incidents there didn't seem to be much.  Only suspicions which it turns out was well founded.

 

Petrice and varnell was once incident as for three years as I said previously very easily avoided.  If he had not been a dolt and found his book he wouldn't have been there even a year.  Many of his provocations came from his own plan and simple dithering the viscount bent over backwards to appease them. 

 

After uttely failing in his quest to get his book back and not using simple common sense on how to do so his solution was kill the guy who actually treated us fairly and convert all of these heathens.  Except a good many of the heathens were not the ones he should have gone after, not the easily captured citizens and nobles but the true slimy under belly of the city.  but that would be too much work on his part.

[berelinde]

When I read this thread title, I thought it was going to be about someone else entirely.

 

Isabela doesn't have plot armor, she has survival instinct. Totally different. If you turn her over to the Arishok, you're a bad person and should feel bad she doesn't need your help to escape because she actually has skills... unlike some of the other characters who have been gifted with mile-thick plot armor.

[Dabrikishaw]

When I read this thread title, I thought it was going to be about someone else entirely.

 

Isabela doesn't have plot armor, she has survival instinct. Totally different. If you turn her over to the Arishok, you're a bad person and should feel bad she doesn't need your help to escape because she actually has skills... unlike some of the other characters who have been gifted with mile-thick plot armor.

No, that's still Plot Armor.

[Vandicus]

No, that's still Plot Armor.

Plot armor is usually defined by unreasonable events allowing the survival of a character. Like say, stormtroopers being completely unable to hit Han and Luke in the Death Star(as well as apparently lacking any time of explosive ordinance).

 

A rogue escaping from their captors isn't plot armor. It'd be plot armor if they survived being eaten by a dragon or being hit by a fireball.

[AlanC9]

Isabela was an awful character and I hope she never ever returns. I kinda hope she just went to Rivain or took to the seas and won't be anywhere near Orlais or Fereldan during the game.

 

An amoral, backstabbing, thieving, sleazy, pathological liar.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

Can't someone be both a good character and a bad person?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

On the surface Isabella seems like an Immoral selfish person and her actions during the coarse of Dragon Age 2 undoubtabley are.

 

But if you go deep inside her (no pun indended) you will find that actually there's more to her than it seems.She just had an extremely traumatic past that taught her a "survival of the fittest just be selfish" personallity.

 

She was sold and used, treated like an object, so after she got out she valued her freedom and was emotionally confused as to where she stands ethically wise.After these events she thought everyone was out for themselves and will hurt her feelings if she lets them close, so she didn't let anyone into her life.

 

As much of a ****** she seems, she couldn't (SPOILERS) sell all those slaves before the events of DA2 because deep down she's a good person.

 

She becomes aware of her mistakes and the wrongs she did if in her final companion mission (SPOILERS) you kill Castion.She realises that her actions have concequences and actually turns into a somewhat morally normal person.She finally lets her friends and potential love(Hawke) into her life and makes connections and loyal friendships with people.

 

Her character development is amazing as she changes as a person over the three acts.

 

 

She is my favourite Dragon Age character and I bow to her writer in respect for making such an amazingly complex character.

 

This...  actually makes alot of sense >.<

 

But still the matter remains of her escaping a boat in the middle of the sea surrounded by Qunari, under guard, and probably in chains. But if they do infact plan to make a story out of it, then I hope it will be explained in a good and plausible way.

[PlasmaCheese]

I was highly disappointed Hawke couldn't just stab Isabela as soon as she showed up. Right in the back. Straight up murder infront of all of Kirkwall's nobles, her companions, and the Arishok. I didn't care if that blood-mage infested hellhole burned and became Quncentral, but she didn't even have the decency to invite Hawke to leave with her.

Slattern.

[mentos]

I think most companions from DA2 will return at some point (some of them more likely than others) because most of them didn't get any type of closure excpet maybe Aveline as for Izzy she has so much unexplored depth you can't sum her up as the " slefish backstabber"

[Dabrikishaw]

Plot armor is usually defined by unreasonable events allowing the survival of a character. Like say, stormtroopers being completely unable to hit Han and Luke in the Death Star(as well as apparently lacking any time of explosive ordinance).

 

A rogue escaping from their captors isn't plot armor. It'd be plot armor if they survived being eaten by a dragon or being hit by a fireball.

Fair.

[Ammonite]

This... actually makes alot of sense >.<

But still the matter remains of her escaping a boat in the middle of the sea surrounded by Qunari, under guard, and probably in chains. But if they do infact plan to make a story out of it, then I hope it will be explained in a good and plausible way.

You mean you didn't expect an amoral, wisecracking, tricksy rogue/thief to manage to break out of a high-security area, against improbable odds? Wouldn't that go against their job description ?
It happens so often in storytelling that had it not actually happened that way, I suspect Varric would've told it like that anyway.

Also, as a seasoned pirate Isabela likely has better chances at escaping from a ship than your average person.

[Fearsome1]

I know you can kill Merrill if you side with the Templars and don't bother trying to persuade her. I imagine Fenris is probably similar if you side with the Mages.

 

My console hates me! I played through DA2 more than a couple of dozen times - lost count of how many runs really - and no matter how many times I tried to set things up to kill Merrill, I never managed to prompt that action. I had no particular grudge against that character, I just try to do EVERYTHING that is possible to see how the story shapes up. Never managed to kill the dalish blood mage. That is pretty much all I missed out on in DA2.

[Samahl]

Some people here seem to be disregarding a few things...in all the years the qunari were in Kirkwall, they were treated like monsters by the populace and had MANY hate crimes committed against them and the arishok took it in stride for the most part. He wasn't trying to convert Kirkwall to the qun at first but people like petrice and ser varnell kept pushing and attacking his men and after 3 years of it he snapped. He straight up says "the provocations we have suffered have worked". I blame the timeskips, because of them what is years in game feels like hours to us so we lose focus of the issues. As for isabela, she is definitely the companion I hated the most and if giving her over to the qun would have worked I would have done so.....but she isn't fully to blame for the qunari attack. She certainly played a role and the deaths are definetly on her head, but only in part. The blame also extends to the Kirkwall government for not controlling their people better, the radicals who wanted a holy war or just hated the qun and killed many innocent qunari over the years, and the qunari themselves for keeping their reasons for being in Kirkwall secret and eventually losing it.

 

This is a very good point. I suppose I'm just bothered by people who place all the blame on Isabela, when the situation is far more complicated than that.