230 réponses à ce sujet

[jedicam10]

My relationship with Isabela has been pretty turbulent throughout the Dragon Age series.

 

DAO: My Warden slept with her to learn how to duel. She seemed pretty cool for my playboy City Elf.

 

DA2: My Hawke never used her since he was already a dagger-rogue. She left Kirkwall with the Tome of Koslun and never returned. My Hawke (and by association, I) despised her.

 

DAI: If she's even in the game, my Inquisitor would have little use for a self-centered thief. I've read the comics and know she kind of atones for her actions, but I'd still be hesitant to trust her.

[schall_und_rauch]

Actually, I think it's that effing book that's got the plot armor, and it just rubbed off on Izzy a bit.  If I'd been Hawke, I'd have rivaled the hell out of Izzy for being such an irresponsible twit--and then when she showed up at the denouement with the book to try and prove me wrong and held out the book to the Arishok, I'd say "hey, Izzy, lemme see that a sec" and then burn the book to ash.

 

DA2 showed multiple instances  of just denying the player the agency that such a game needs -- burning the book being one of them.

 

However, it makes sense that Isabella could be handed off to the Qunari and it makes sense that -- her being a thief, a pirate, somebody with a lot of tricks up her sleeve, fighting dirty and being in her element on a ship on the ocean (as opposed to the Qunari) -- she is capable of escaping "according to rumors".

Plot armor is for me when a character that should logically be dead isn't. Anders surviving DAA when his corpse was found is stretching it. Leliana was mentioned too often. But for Isabella, there is no logical reason that she needs to be dead.

Perhaps a moral one, but that's another issue.

[DragonKingReborn]

It's still her fault though.

 

Not on topic at all, sorry, but;

 

Everytime you make a short post, I read it in my mind as having the Batman voice from HISHE.  Then I animate it in my head so that you are sipping on coffee like your avatar.

 

Well done, sir.  Well done.

 

/offtopic.
 

 

I doubt Isabela will return myself, but if she does - great.  I don't think she has excessive plot armour at all.  Certainly no more than Leliana.

[Chiramu]

If you don't recruit Isabela in DA2, a lot of people still die from the Qunari attacking the city.

 

You are not allowed to ignore a companion quest in DA2. I tried to not do Merrill's quest because I didn't want the Dalish to die and I didn't want her to go down that path and the game would not allow me to go into the Deep Roads until I had completed that quest.

 

You have to recruit every companion in that game. The game does not allow to you deviate.

[CrimsonN7]

Lol just thinking if she somehow returned again in DAI and if like in DAO she gave the protagonist an option to bed her she could then possibly boast that she had the Hero of Ferelden, The Champion of Kirkwall and the leader of the Inquisition. At least when the gang meet up they will all possibly have something in common.

[wolfhowwl]

You are not allowed to ignore a companion quest in DA2. I tried to not do Merrill's quest because I didn't want the Dalish to die and I didn't want her to go down that path and the game would not allow me to go into the Deep Roads until I had completed that quest.

 

You have to recruit every companion in that game. The game does not allow to you deviate.

 

I'm pretty sure that Isabella and Fenris are both optional.

[AshenEndymion]

You have to recruit every companion in that game. The game does not allow to you deviate.

 

Incorrect.  If you collect 50 sovereigns, and go to the deep roads, you never have to do Isabella's recruitment quest to begin with.  You can also skip recruiting Fenris by ignoring his quest in the same way.  The hard part is getting the money while purposefully ignoring their quests.

 

If you do their quests, you have to take them as party members(Although, I think you can say no to Fenris, but you are forced to keep Isabella)...

[Maria Caliban]

You can't kill the majority of people in BioWare games. This is less plot armor and more that BioWare has to put in specific scenes/moments where you kill them, so they only do so when they find it interesting.

It's still her fault though.

No, I rather think it's the fault of the qunari for killing them.

If Batman makes me mad and I decide to bomb city hall, I'm the one responsible for the bombing.

[Kingthlayer]

While it might not be a huge role to play, she does have to stop by and sleep with the Inquisitor so she can threepeat our protags.

[Karlone123]

While I do personally blame Isabela for taking the Tome of Koslun leading into effect of the Second Qunari invasion of Kirkwall. I do however blame the city guard for not protecting the city and preventing the storming of their hold and failing to save the viscount, and I blame Meredith and the Templars for not defending against the so called heretics

[themikefest]

You are not allowed to ignore a companion quest in DA2. I tried to not do Merrill's quest because I didn't want the Dalish to die and I didn't want her to go down that path and the game would not allow me to go into the Deep Roads until I had completed that quest.

 

You have to recruit every companion in that game. The game does not allow to you deviate.

Wrong. I have done a playthrough without recruiting  Isabela and a playthrough without recruiting Fenris

 

I know about Merrill. Once I drop her off at the alienage, I ignore her for the rest of the game.

[cronshaw]

I'm not putting all the responsibility solely on her shoulders, but the Siren's Call and the Arishok's Dreadnaught scrapped and were shipwrecked over the book she stole. The Arishok, like Sten, was honor bound not to return to Par Vollen until his duty was fulfilled which was to return with the Tome. Now everything from Petrice and her zealots, the Viscount's inaction, the damned Enigma of Kirkwall (there's literally a codex entry in the Qunari compound during Act II), and the rigidity of the Qun contributed to the culmination of Act II. However Isabela's thievery, selfishness, cowardice, omission of the truth or what have you set those events into motion.

 

I'm not sure the Qun has any more moral weight than Isabella's desire for self-preservation.

[cronshaw]

You can't kill the majority of people in BioWare games. This is less plot armor and more that BioWare has to put in specific scenes/moments where you kill them, so they only do so when they find it interesting.

 

That was kinda what I was getting at earlier

[TheGusWho]

You are not allowed to ignore a companion quest in DA2. I tried to not do Merrill's quest because I didn't want the Dalish to die and I didn't want her to go down that path and the game would not allow me to go into the Deep Roads until I had completed that quest.

 

You have to recruit every companion in that game. The game does not allow to you deviate.

 

Untrue - I've played the game without Fenris or Isabela, and after doing the Act 1 quest with taking Flemeth's talisman (and wow, talk about a character who has plot armor), you can tell Merrill you're not going to see her again and she doesn't become a companion. Anders you can send away after Dissent (although he does come back at the end,) you can ignore Sebastian's quests and not recruit him, and obviously you can let both your siblings die in the Deep Roads. The only companions that you can't get rid of at some point are Varric and Aveline, and I've heard that even Aveline can be sent away before the end with certain choices.

 

 

 
She's one character and one that the player should have had the opportunity to kill/imprison for her crimes. Limiting this choice and forcing her upon a person role-playing a diplomatic character who believes in justice isn't a good design concept for a role-playing game which allows you to bring justice (or non-justice in Fenris' case) to other companions.

 

You can skip recruiting Isabella completely but if you do recruit her and learn of her involvement with the Qunari, you have to have high rival/friendship with her to even get her to show again to hand her over to the Qunari. The OP is hoping that in Inquisition, we get the opportunity to kill her or turn her over to the Qunari again who can successfully keep hold of her this time. Point being, the OP, like I, wants to be able to bring justice to Isabella.
 
...and let's not even go into detail over how many people she's infected with STD's (a crime within itself).    
 
 

 
You stole the Qun, the holy relic of the Qunari, sparking an uprising costing the lives of thousands when you had the opportunity to avert this, you bumped into the Arishock who now has to be washed and sterilized and so you go to prison. You lose! Good day sir!

 

 

Why is the fact that she had some mild sex-related disease (probably crabs, something that's really common even in the world today, and no, it's not a crime) make her someone so dirty that anyone who touches her has to be sterilized? You do remember that the way we find out about her hilarious infection is that she's going to the healer to get herself cured, right? The fact that she got herself treated for it speaks to a far greater sense of responsibility than a lot of dudes have when they find out they have an STD.

 

I'm sure you were trying to make a really funny joke, but considering that it's a joke that literally everyone makes about any woman who's shown to partake and enjoy promiscuity, it's falling pretty flat. It also implies that her promiscuity is part of what makes her a bad person.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Isabela got in that situation by freeing slaves she had unknowingly been smuggling. She took the job to pay off a debt. Meaning, some other thief would have taken the job if not her. I don't want to fully absolve her, but I blame her for escalating tensions in Kirkwall and keeping insightful/relevant knowledge to herself. I see her actions as someone who was equal parts selfish and scared. But she could and should have spoken up about what she knew, at least in some respect. That was within her power to change. How the Qunari respond isn't on her, so I don't blame her for the people killed by the Qunari. And there were certainly other forces that were working very hard to be directly provoke to the Qunari.

 

As for her having plot armor, its true she is the only DA2 love interest (not including dlc) who can't die. However, she has about as many potential outcomes, good and bad, as the rest of them. But she is also entirely optional to recruit. So I don't think it is plot armor so much as a strange side effect of Dragon Age 2s strange pacing and possibly the rushed development.

 

I do hope she makes an appearance in the next game. If she escaped the Qunari I really want to know what she has been up to and if she wants revenge. If she is Hawke's LI I really want to see her searching for Hawke, and if she is just off on her brand new ship, it'd be cool if she and her pirate crew became an asset of the Inquisition.

[TheGusWho]

Depending on the STD it certainly is a crime. Do you know how many HIV positive people have maliciously infected others?

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that based on the humorous throwaway scene in DA2, we're meant to infer that Isabela had the Thedas equivalence of AIDS? And also we're meant to infer that she "maliciously infected others" when we have absolutely no evidence to suggest she would do such a thing? (Added note: I'm very much aware of how many HIV positive men have maliciously infected others.)

 

I understand that you dislike the character, but there's "dislike" and then there's "distorting the character into a caricature of evil."

[DragonKingReborn]

I don't have time to find the Ron Burgundy meme just now so I'll go old school...

 

That escalated quickly.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I highly doubt that the idea of maliciously spreading any STD is or ever will be a plot line or character trait of anyone in a Dragon Age game.

 

Beyond that, getting an STD is not and should not be a condemnation of anyones character. So, trying to use that to ****-shame and/or character assassinate her needs to stop.

 

Also, lets not start vilifying real life people with HIV. That is neither ok nor relevant to any discusion of Isabela.

[KaiserShep]

I like Isabela quite a bit, but her personal quest always irritated me. We slay dragons, demons, and men by the hundreds yet she puts lives on the line because one pirate dude threatens her? Huh???

I'd like to see her in DAI if we gave her to the Qunari...I'm dying to hear her escape tale for myself.

Technically it's not just one person. Castillon runs a fleet of pirates and slavers. He's pretty much like a sea mob boss with a sh*t ton of mabari.

What's this STD crap anyway? Anders already used his magic on whatever she had.

[LaughingWolf]

I really don't see it as Isabella's fault; how could she have known the Qunari would sack a whole city over a book?
If an American stole some fancy European relic, and Europe decided to burn all of America to the ground... It'd be a bit excessive. Same basic concept really.
Also, tbh in Isabella's situation, I'd have done the same thing

[Vinitchz]

I always wondered if she at least knew what she was stealing before the qunari started to chase her, I mean, okay it's an qunari relic, but did she knew it was the most important qunari relic? I don't see the Qunari Invasion on kirkwall being her fault, Castillon was the one who involved her in that job to begin

[GithCheater]

Well except for a the viscount and a few dozen kirkwall citizens and that one noble that actually said, hey! you can't kill the viscount!  Oh and all the people that died due to their poison gas little trick because dumbo horns wanted to make Javarris tintop look bad.

 

 

(Treated as monsters because they were just sitting there doing nothing as the viscount said like Gargoyles, the Qunari are well known to be invaders and converters, anyone would be nervous.  They were treated very well by the powers in charge, a whole section of the city was given to them.  You will have to fill me in on the MANY hate crimes, other than the petrice incidents there didn't seem to be much.  Only suspicions which it turns out was well founded.

 

Petrice and varnell was once incident as for three years as I said previously very easily avoided.  If he had not been a dolt and found his book he wouldn't have been there even a year.  Many of his provocations came from his own plan and simple dithering the viscount bent over backwards to appease them. 

 

After uttely failing in his quest to get his book back and not using simple common sense on how to do so his solution was kill the guy who actually treated us fairly and convert all of these heathens.  Except a good many of the heathens were not the ones he should have gone after, not the easily captured citizens and nobles but the true slimy under belly of the city.  but that would be too much work on his part.

 

"dumbo horns"??  ... LOL ... Such prejudice toward the Qunari and their honorable leader is "unwarranted".

 

I think Varric's abilities and connections are being underestimated with regard to finding the book.  An Oxman would be in over his head facing prejudice in an unfamiliar city, while trying to get information on the books location.

 

I believe that the Arishok viewed Kirkwall as a virtual "Gomorrah" with Kirkwall's children desperately needing guidance.  The death of a few Kirkwall citizens would be minor "collateral damage" in comparison to "enlightenment" of the entire city of Kirkwall to the Qun's teachings (with the added "benefit" of the elimination of the Circle, Templars and the Chantry).

 

http://dragonage.wik...ion_of_Kirkwall

 

http://dragonage.wik...rs_and_converts

 

Arishok Quotes:  http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Arishok

 

(to Hawke, Full respect) "Maraas toh ebra-shok. You alone are basalit-an." (to nobles) "This is what respect looks like, bas! Some of you will never earn it!"

 

(to frightened nobles) "Look at you. Like fat Dathrasi you feed and feed and complain only when your meal is interrupted. You do not look up. You do not see that the grass is bare. All you leave in your wake is misery. You are blind. I will make you see."

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=w4kJMqNFLxA ("I have seen every vice and weakness of your kind and how few of you take responsibility.  Your Viscount remains a fool ...")

[GithCheater]

 
She's one character and one that the player should have had the opportunity to kill/imprison for her crimes. Limiting this choice and forcing her upon a person role-playing a diplomatic character who believes in justice isn't a good design concept for a role-playing game which allows you to bring justice (or non-justice in Fenris' case) to other companions.

 

You can skip recruiting Isabella completely but if you do recruit her and learn of her involvement with the Qunari, you have to have high rival/friendship with her to even get her to show again to hand her over to the Qunari. The OP is hoping that in Inquisition, we get the opportunity to kill her or turn her over to the Qunari again who can successfully keep hold of her this time. Point being, the OP, like I, wants to be able to bring justice to Isabella.
 
...and let's not even go into detail over how many people she's infected with STD's (a crime within itself).   
 
 

 
You stole the Qun, the holy relic of the Qunari, sparking an uprising costing the lives of thousands when you had the opportunity to avert this, you bumped into the Arishock who now has to be washed and sterilized and so you go to prison. You lose! Good day sir!

 

...

 

Oh joy ... slutshaming.