Am I the only person who played a Dalish elf and didn't desecrate the ashes? Yes, my Dalish wardens were all rightfully pissed off at the treatment followers of Andraste have given the People, but they also believed in not stooping to that level when encountering other belief systems.
Nothing against Andraste, just her stupid followers. I mean, if she looked at what the Chant of Light had done to the people she helped free, she'd probably face palm so hard even the Stone would feel it.
And what is it the Chant of Light has done, that is so horrible, specifically?
Guest_Puddi III_*
I don't think any of my characters who weren't bastards desecrated the ashes. If not out of respect for the religion, out of respect for its followers, and out of respect for the fact that Kolgrim was a lunatic so why the hell would I do what he says.
I normally pour blood on the ashes as a dwarf and as a Dalish elf.
Am I the only person who played a Dalish elf and didn't desecrate the ashes? Yes, my Dalish wardens were all rightfully pissed off at the treatment followers of Andraste have given the People, but they also believed in not stooping to that level when encountering other belief systems.
No, you weren't. In fact, the rationalization is pretty easy: desecrating Andraste's ashes is spitting on one of the people that freed the slaves and made the Dales a reality. I mean, the codex entry about the Dales for a Dalish Warden (one of the first you get) says good things about her:
"You will hear tales of the woman Andraste.The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires."
Written by a Dalish Keeper. What the Chantry did afterwards is not Andraste's fault.
Am I the only person who played a Dalish elf and didn't desecrate the ashes? Yes, my Dalish wardens were all rightfully pissed off at the treatment followers of Andraste have given the People, but they also believed in not stooping to that level when encountering other belief systems.
Not to mention the Chantry thinks the Ashes don't exist so it doesn't effect them at all.
And you're spitting on the remains of the woman who freed you from slavery and had nothing to do with Orlais rolfstomping the Dales centuries after her death so basically you're just being a petty vindictive ******* for no reason.
Am I the only person who played a Dalish elf and didn't desecrate the ashes? Yes, my Dalish wardens were all rightfully pissed off at the treatment followers of Andraste have given the People, but they also believed in not stooping to that level when encountering other belief systems.
My Surana Warden was atheist, and he didn't feel the need to desecrate the ashes of Andraste; Oghren, Leliana, and Wynne left with him to defeat Kolgrim and the Dragon Andraste afterwards. I can understand it from the perspective of someone who wants to roleplay as a character who acquires the Reaver specialization, or who isn't powerful enough to defeat Kolgrim and the Disciples of Andraste, but it's not something that appealed to me personally. As a Dalish mage and a staunch believer in the Creators, I doubt that my character would do anything like that, either.
Who's Kolgrim? That dribbling old fanatic cultist in the cave? I kill him every time without even contemplating anything he says.
My Warden's interaction with Kolgrim in a nutshell:
*sees Axe*
"Ooooh Shiney."
*kills and loots corpse*
And what is it the Chant of Light has done, that is so horrible, specifically?
The Exalted March of the Dales
The execution of the RIvaini who accepted the Qun and refused to follow the Chant during the Storm Age
The fact that elven alienages can be purged if anyone stands up to injustices committed against them
The constant injustice done against the elves and other non-human races
The existence of alienages and the dissonance of Shartan's verses, and Shartan was general who united with Andraste to free his people and diminish the Imperium
and as of recently
The recent annulment of the Dairsmuid Circle in Rivain
I mean ****, if someone like Sebastian can say the Chantry failed entire groups of people, you know your faith has done screwed up.
Ooh, can't forget the constant erasure or race-washing of Shartan's existence.
Am I the only person
No. If you ever start a question with that the answer is always no, there were always tons and tons of other people who did the exact same as you.
Re: Emerald Plains
That name annoys the living hell out of me and gives me one more reason to bring a reckoning to Orlais.
Just an aside, Lob, but was your intent to make people think Xil hated the name 'Emerald Plains'? If so, carry on.
The Exalted March of the Dales
The execution of the RIvaini who accepted the Qun and refused to follow the Chant during the Storm Age
The fact that elven alienages can be purged if anyone stands up to injustices committed against them
The constant injustice done against the elves and other non-human races
The existence of alienages and the dissonance of Shartan's verses, and Shartan was general who united with Andraste to free his people and diminish the Imperium
and as of recently
The recent annulment of the Dairsmuid Circle in Rivain
I mean ****, if someone like Sebastian can say the Chantry failed entire groups of people, you know your faith has done screwed up.
Ooh, can't forget the constant erasure or race-washing of Shartan's existence.
But that's the Chantry, not the Chant of Light. It's not the same thing.
Just an aside, Lob, but was your intent to make people think Xil hated the name 'Emerald Plains'? If so, carry on.
Thanks for pointing that out, TK514. I changed my signature pretty late yesterday, so I guess I was a little tired when I made the adjustment.
Thanks for pointing that out, TK514. I changed my signature pretty late yesterday, so I guess I was a little tired when I made the adjustment.
NP. Been there, done that, to be sure.
It's kind of hard to criticize the Chant of Light when we only know snippets of it.
There have been plenty of threads attacking/defending the actions of the Chantry, can't we just link to them rather then repeat them over and over? Not that I'd really mind, it is always fun to jump in those threads.
I wish Bioware would just unveil the entire chant of light, unabridged!
It's kind of hard to criticize the Chant of Light when we only know snippets of it.
There have been plenty of threads attacking/defending the actions of the Chantry, can't we just link to them rather then repeat them over and over? Not that I'd really mind, it is always fun to jump in those threads.
hmm, good point.
I think Mary Kirby mostly wrote it, so... maybe it has a lot of food references in it.
!
Mary Kirby is Andraste.
What havoc has the Chantry wrought exactly?
They are part of the oppression of mages across the board (on the whole of known Thedas), they keep the elfs down (they are part of having them looked at as second-...well probably closer to fourth- or fifth-class citizens), they threaten (or at least are hostile) towards anyone that does not agree with them (from the dalish to the Black Chantry of Tevinter!), they keep (well kept - after all they rebelled) their own private army (templars), they repress all other religions (the Dalish one, the one of the Dwarfs, Dragon Cults (ok, those I would probably repress, too)), calling exalted marches (we could call those "Crusades" as well, because that is what they are - calling nations to fight for them and expecting them to follow with religious zeal...) particularly on the elfs (that Andraste - their most holy figure (next to the maker) - gave their freedom, thus breaking something their prophet set up...making them double-crossing lying SOBs!)
Of course they are sexist (against men!), too - only female priests with men only being allowed to do the simplest jobs...
So yeah, HAVOC!
greetings LAX
I don't think the fade is really all that religious in of itself. Only the Golden/black city are really all that tied to the religion, and there is no evidence that it will be involved in the plot at all. There will be religious discussions no doubt, but I don't see any good reason why it has to be the focus of the game. It should be a small part that can be explored by those that are interested and ignored by those that don't care about it.
Becoming a religious icon is almost never good for anyone. Think back on the history of religious prophets and major religious figures through history. It rarely ever ends well for them. Not to say the Inquisitor would have to meet a terrible fate, but catching the eye of overly religious people is never a good thing. Some will see him/her as a hero of the faith, but many would see him as an affront to the religion would call for his/her head on a platter. I think with demons falling from the sky, a mage and templar war, and who knows what else-we really have our hands a bit full and combating an angry mob of Andrastians would be overkill.
So you might see it as a great thing, but not everyone does.
The fade is a supernatural realm, a place where things that are impossible in the real world happen all the time. Regardless of your stance on religion, it is a very 'other' kind of place. A realm of spirits and dreams. What could be more religious?
Personally, I'm really happy to see a major game take on such a hard topic. DA:I is dealing with materiel and themes that most franchises won't touch. The idea of a single creator god and a messianic figure who are possibly taking part in the world, and are not just a part of it, or apart from it. So rather than have the devs avoid the religious questions and themes, I'd have them really dig in. REALLY get to the roots of our PC's beliefs and thoughts as they carry the burden of leading the Inquisition. If a player doesn't want to deal with religious themes, then avoiding DA:I may be a good idea.
As for the poor fate of religious figures, Muhammad ended up sitting pretty with his riches and his lands and died at a ripe(for that time) old age in his early 60s, and his followers encompass 1/5 of the world, and are among the fastest-growing populations. Martin Luthor died at 63 as well, having created a reformation that defied the most powerful church of the West and effectively split it in two, allowing people to become closer to the God without the 'assistance' of a greedy, corrupt church. Anyone who values the religious freedom in Western culture owes that freedom to his brave defiance of church doctrine. And Jesus Christ died at 33, having preached his teachings for only 3 years. But his followers have grown so massive that adherents of its various denominations account for 1/3rd of the 7 billion people on Earth. Talk about having choices having an effect on the world. If my Inquisitors can pull off anything even close to that, dead or not, I'm satisfied that Bioware has told an awesome story.
My point in the above is not to espouse the truth of any religion. This is not a debate of RW religion. Only that the fate of religious figures is not always so bleak and hopeless as you might think. They are sometimes the best stories we have.
I think the Inquisitor will survive, however. The fact that you are supposed to be able to play after the man quest is over is very promising. Wouldn't worry too much about that.
1 The Exalted March of the Dales
2 The execution of the RIvaini who accepted the Qun and refused to follow the Chant during the Storm Age
3 The fact that elven alienages can be purged if anyone stands up to injustices committed against them
4 The constant injustice done against the elves and other non-human races
5 The existence of alienages and the dissonance of Shartan's verses, and Shartan was general who united with Andraste to free his people and diminish the Imperium
and as of recently
6 The recent annulment of the Dairsmuid Circle in Rivain
7 I mean ****, if someone like Sebastian can say the Chantry failed entire groups of people, you know your faith has done screwed up.
Ooh, can't forget the constant erasure or race-washing of Shartan's existence.
1: Was a war they joined in self-defense.
2: That was not the Chantry's, but the war leaders' decision.
3: That is not the Chantry AT ALL. Not even remotely related to Chantry practices. But nice try at rubbing that off on them too.
4: Again, not at all related to the Chantry or its practices.
5: Which were build to SAVE the lives of the Elves. However, when the nations that were ordered by the Chantry to provide living quarters for the Elves, they didn't exactly give them prime living areas (big shocker).
6: First of all the Dairsmuid Circle was a haven of Abominations, so not exactly a big loss for the world to get rid of that cancer cell. Secondly it would appear that the Annulment happened AFTER the Templars left the Chantry, meaning it wasn't a Chantry sanctioned Annulment.
7: You can fail a group of people for many different reasons and in many differnet. But it is nice to see that you think that Sebastian has a universal opinion of truth of everything.
- The Chantry protected the early mages. The Inquisition was hunting them down, the Chantry brought it to heel, and the mages were mostly kept around the chantries, keeping fires alive and such, until they got bored and fed up with it, locked themselves in a cathedral, and negotiated for the creation of the Circle. It's the Seekers not doing their job that had the Templars go out of control, no fault on the Divine or the Mothers.
-The Chantry saved the elves. Odd, no? The Dalish were at war with Orlais, they were winning, Chantry did not call an Exalted March until they themselves were threatened. (I'm not really blaming the Dalish, I would also get pissed if I wanted a Theocracy and another religion was sending missionaries into my land.) Then the Chantry forced other nations to make room for the elves. The Chantry supports the alienage elves, it's the nobles and commoners and the elves themselves that keep the alienages as bad as they are.
-Exalted Marches were justified. The Dalish were a threat, the rise of another possible Imperium was threatening (would be fewer blood mages if Chantry succeeded), and the Qunari were a threat. Doing an Exalted March and merely contemplating one are two different things, so I'm not talking about the dwarves. The dalish were given that land by Andraste's sons, not Andraste herself. The removing of the verses about Shartan was stupid, though.
-The dwarves kill an Andrastian dwarf, the Dalish only tolerate Creator believers among the clans, and the only time Andrastianism was forced on a population was by the civil leaders. Official members of the Chantry just seem to go around preaching and be given a hard time because of it, then Templars are sent in afterwards.
-As for being sexist, as I don't know the theology behind only having females be Divines (maybe due to Andraste being female, maybe Andraste only ordained women in the Chant, who knows?) I have no real comment on it, but calling it sexist is jumping to conclusions.
2: That was not the Chantry's, but the war leaders' decision.
Well, actually...
It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves. It's a fortunate mystery that the leaders in Kont-aar did not alert their allies in the Northern Passage, or we'd still be fighting the giants now.
—From The Exalted Marches: An Examination of Chantry Warfare, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar
The rest I agree with. But even a Chantry scholar has to admit that the Chantry was involved in that purge.
-As for being sexist, as I don't know the theology behind only having females be Divines (maybe due to Andraste being female, maybe Andraste only ordained women in the Chant, who knows?) I have no real comment on it, but calling it sexist is jumping to conclusions.
Oh, no, it's sexist. World of Thedas explains the theology behind it:
Gender: Gender roles are clearly defined in the Chantry, which sees women as the purer sex. Only women can be priests. Only a woman can be Divine. Men are all judged by Maferath's betrayal, and the Chantry does not permit them to rise to any senior spiritual role. They may be brothers at most, expected to study, serve, but never lead. The exception to this is the Templar Order, where most members, including those in positions of authority, are male.
You know, now I realize that the Templars breaking for the Chantry will give them more reasons to justify that theological stance on gender.
-Forgot about Rivain thing.
-Good to know about Divine thing. The way they have it set up, they are saying women are better than men, not just different.
Thanks Mistic.
Retour en haut