323 réponses à ce sujet

[TheGhost88]

Because Stannis would.

 

And everybody secretly wants to be like Stannis.

Because hes Stannis the Mannis.

[Shadow Fox]

@OP- if ur surprised by this, the wonders of BSN will NEVER cease to amaze you.

There were ppl saying they wud buy the game depending on how much ant-chantry they can be. There was another guy who said he wud burn everything related to DA if the title' herald of andraste' was involved in the game.

Now those are bizarre. i swear if i see one of my agnostic friends, ill show them that thread. Extremist who?

...Please show me.

[MrMrPendragon]

It's hip to hate on religions, even fictional ones.

 

Sadly this

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wow it sounds weird that peoples that talk about killing elves/something else now complaing about peoples destroying chantry or killing andraste.

[HK-90210]

*snip*

 

Her name? Petrice.

 

 

OK, gotta be honest, that is an awesome backstory, Dean. Did not see the last part coming. Must have been a younger Petrice, before her 'Kill all heretics, including the viscount's son' days. Same faith, just a little less fanaticism?

 

I have a similar tale for a Dalish Inquisitor of mine. His is like Seamus's conversion to the Qun, only with Andrastianism. The girl in that tale dies, unfortunately. Dang bloodmages.....

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Hate Andraste ? Personally, the answer is no, not even remotely. 

 

The woman is quite the accomplisher of difficult feats, she is also quite good looking judging from her statue depictions (sad we don't get to bang her , she was quite promiscuous with the links to Maferath, Maker, Shartan and perhaps more but that's life  )...what is there to not like ?

 

Her words and teachings are in fact quite harmless and actually just sensible.  They were however, very politically motivated, in that her teachings primary purpose was to rally people against the Ancient Tevinter Imperium. 

 

"Magic exist to serve man, never to rule over him." Isn't this the essence of power control, which is essential for a mage to succeed ? This line is just a variation of Charles Xavier's "Control your powers, lest it controls you."
 

I hate the fact that a bunch of simpletons took what she said and decided to make an oppressive cult out of it. Nothing against the woman in any way. 

[OctagonalSquare]

I don't really hate Andraste, but the Maker is an ass, as are his most zealous followers.

 

Similar to how I don't really hate Jesus, but Yahweh is an ass, as are fundamentalist Christians.

[schall_und_rauch]

I don't give a rat's ass about Andraste, but I would really like to slaughter in a very cruel and bloody way that stupid priest crone in Denerim that has to remind me in her annoying harpye-like voice that magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him.

That woman alone is for me reason to start an atheist crusade.

[MisterJB]

making our heroes(especially this is stupid for mages and elfs, dwarves, kossith) as "Herald of Andraste" is another big mistake of devs as making such characters as Cullen, Lelianna, Cassandra, Vivienne our forced advisors and companions...and their words that "we are not related to the Orlais chantry" is not make sense

about Andraste was a "good person" its a lie..she is no different that ancient elf-blooded humans who with help of Old Gods conquer Thedas

Andraste was a powerfull somniary mage who take controll(via blood magic or somniary powers but she do this) over Maferat(she even do this with angry wyvern) and other barbarian chiefs and conquer south Thedas and after that she wanted to conquer north but was stoped by Tevinters

and Andraste does not free Tevinter elves(and she is not fight against slavery of barbarians), they officially do this by themselfs and by this help in Andraste conquering but this does not change anything..even weakened because slave rebellion Tevinter defeated Andraste and after her execution all her forces was torn apart

she claim herself as a wife of the new and "true god and creator of Thedas and fade" as "The Maker" who was never seen or heard exept Andraste and much later by Hessarian who see executed Andraste in fade and heard maker...

"The Maker" is another theme, but he is 100% no more than

1)a simple lie, her crazy fantasy

2)some kind of desire deamon what is possible can be even "created" by Andraste dreams of such god who much later answer her

3)someone like Corinfeus who use her to take revenge on Tevinters who abandon worchip and slay their "gods"

4)some of ancient dragons(some of the old gods or others) who use her to take revenge on Tevinters and slay their "gods"

many does not and never will like the idea of being "herald of Andraste/Maker/Orlais ChantryTemplars/Seekers/"...

Oh, I love reading Asdrubael's posts. Tell US more about ancient Tevinter and how they were all elf blooded. Give us the percentage of likelihood of someone being born a mage.

[wright1978]

There's certainly an element of zealotry to the myth of Andraste which i dislike about her. Also dislike the Chantry which originates from her.

[Roamingmachine]

I think most of the hate is towards Andraste, the symbol of the chantry rather than Andraste the person. Like many have said in this thread, there are folks who take issue with the chantry and killing Andraste the symbol is a more straightforward way of expressing displeasure than to attack the amorphous organization known as the Chantry. Personally, though i dislike the Chantry greatly for being yeat another tool to control peoples thoughts, i am ambivalent towards Andraste herself. We simply know nothing of the person, only the facade that has been build around her by the chantry during the centuries.

[LOLandStuff]

Oh, I love reading Asdrubael's posts. Tell US more about ancient Tevinter and how they were all elf blooded. Give us the percentage of likelihood of someone being born a mage.

 

If it weren't for Andraste they'd still be scrubbing off the floor their own blood in some Tevinter mansion.

[Ajna]

It's unhealthy and toxic, I can't even look at topic's like that without feeling queasy.

[Spicen]

Similar to how I don't really hate Jesus, but Yahweh is an ass, as are fundamentalist Christians.

The Bioware Social Network is not a forum to display your unwavering hate towards Yahweh or any other entity.

Please refrain from making comments regarding your real world grudge.

[Dean_the_Young]

No one wants my love 

 

I'm like a slightly better looking, more popular Liara!

There's something damning about such low standards...

 

 

That is a funny story. 

 

I like how you're going to roleplay it. You know, I would absolutely watch it if you filmed it for a Let's Play video and simply roleplayed it with character thoughts and such. 

 

Not sure I'd go that route, but I like the concept. 

 

I'd never film it, but I may write an exhaustive, several thousand word summary and retrospective after the fact.

 

TL;DR: How Dean Roleplays A Religious Fundamentalist

 

OK, gotta be honest, that is an awesome backstory, Dean. Did not see the last part coming. Must have been a younger Petrice, before her 'Kill all heretics, including the viscount's son' days. Same faith, just a little less fanaticism?

 

Oh, no, not at all. I just believe that Petrice would be more than happy to accept the conversion of a heretic to the proper path. The 'kill all' only applies towards heretics who are stubbornly satisfied and refuse to accept the grace of god.

 

Qunquisitor is an oxman who, for various reasons not least an envy/admiration of her conviction, was inclined to agree with her and shift his view of the world towards hers. People like it when other people change their views to agree with them.

 

Now, is Qunquisitor as fanatical as Petrice? Probably not. I doubt the dialogue would support it. But, internally, his convictions and Heroic Willpower would be coached in terms of faith and religion. When he makes decisions (and he'll probably be the uncompromising/aggressive sort), he will need to have religious justifications. He would, as much as possible, have a great big bias towards Petrice, and in so much as he and she would disagree he would view it more in terms of his not being strong enough to rise over his weakness than her being outright wrong.

 

 

I have a similar tale for a Dalish Inquisitor of mine. His is like Seamus's conversion to the Qun, only with Andrastianism. The girl in that tale dies, unfortunately. Dang bloodmages.....

 

If I get around to playing a Dalish (which would be at least the third or fourth playthrough), it would be for the purpose of roleplaying one converting to Andrastianism. The entirety of my interest in role playing a Dalish Elf would be to remove the Dalish from the Elf.

 

Cue the accusations of 'troll' in three, two, one...

[Andraste_Reborn]

Oh the whole, I've found this forum quite friendly and ... oh, right. Nobody is talking about me.

 

Carry on, then.

[wright1978]

It's easy to see why some people dislike the Chantry. Andraste just gets involved in it because she's their prophet, but it's really the people who worship her who do all the messed up stuff, not her... I mean, she's ashes anyway. There's a line between using a faith to make yourself a better and more spiritual person, and using it as an excuse to backup doing morally questionable things. 

 

If any history is to be believed she led a holy crusade, so i don't think she's off the hook unless history is a complete lie.

[Wolfen09]

because nobody here seems to want to be tied to one religion....  a character's religion has no major impact on the story nor is it really relative in any way, they put in the choices so people can roleplay....  and it seems the more extreme role players dont want to be tied to a single religion....  i stop my role playing at character name, looks, and dialogue choices....  giving them a religion is way too far into it for me

[Ieldra]

@OP:
How can I hate someone I don't know? If I ever met her, I'd be curious and would probably not be too long in asking which of the stories about her life was true, and which one was invented by her followers.

It's just that I don't want to be associated with the religion founded in her name. Which I dislike but not enough to make it a major focus of my attention in-world with every one of my characters - unless I'm made complicit in accepting the association with no choice about it, *THEN* I will start to hate. Let me keep my distance from the Chantry and its ideology, and I won't need to fight it, except on the political level should it get in the way of a particular Inquisitor's goals.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Because Stannis would.

 

And everybody secretly wants to be like Stannis.

 

The Mannis is all the Chosen One I need!

[Spicen]

for the record: i think a loyalist inquisitor shud choose Knight enchanter spec. just sayin

[Mistic]

Not really. More just a question of categorization.

 

The No True Scotsman fallacy is when pre-established definitions are selectively redefined for the purpose of positions that the original definition wouldn't necessarily support or imply. The Scotsman as a person from Scotland, as opposed to claiming a 'true' Scotsman must also believe X, Y, and Z.

 

That's a fallacy when applied to categories that don't imply belief, but not when categorizing beliefs themselves. Belief systems are identified and defined by their beliefs, so a deviant who doesn't follow the categorical definition would not, in fact, be part of the category. One of the defining aspects of Catholocism, for example, is following the Pope: if you refute the pope, you generally wouldn't be considered a true catholic.

 

Andrastianism has no agreed upon definition. In fact, it's not even a canonical term- it's an invention of the fanbase to talk about a religion- and usually the religion of the White Divine.

 

There is no agreed upon fan definition of what Andrastianism is, so asking if the Tevinter Religion should be considered as such is a pretty reasonable question. When the dominant distinguishing factor of Southern Thedas is the reverence of Andraste, and Tevinter's religion has none of the same emphasis or devotion to the person, would it really count as being considered Andrastianism, as opposed to 'Maker-worship' or some other name that distinguishes Tevinter from the Andraste-loving South?

 

Wrong. Andrastianism is not an invention of the fanbase and the Tevinter Imperium is explicitely said to follow it.

 

World of Thedas, Religion section, page 123:

"Hessarian declared the Maker the one true god, and Andrastianism the religion of the Imperium. The priests of the Seven Temples were given a choice: convert or die."

 

It's true that it's not the most common term in the official sources, but it exists. Also, WoT provides an official definition for "Chantry", the word used to call the organized religion:

"At the heart of this monotheistic religion are the techings of the prophet Andraste, collected in the Chantry's holy book, the Chant of Light. Chantry faithful believe in the divine authority of the Maker and worship him in temples called chantries."

 

So for a religion to be called "Chantry" it has to be:

-Monotheistic.

-Follow the teachings of Andraste collected in the Chant of Light.

-Worship the Maker in buildings called chantries.

 

WoT also explains more the general rules about Andraste in the "four core principles" of the Chantry. It says:

"Andraste was the bride of the Maker, a prophet and martyr whose ultimate sacrifice must be remembered and honored."

 

It doesn't say that Andraste's nature was divine, nor that it's necessary to worship her to be accepted as "Chantry", as the Orlesian Chantry believes. So I was wrong. Given that we have formal definitions, and that the official text goes as far as calling the Tevinter Imperium's religion Andrastianism, any effort to say otherwise is not "suspiciously similar to the No True Scotsman fallacy", it's actually the fallacy itself.

[KainD]

Sadly this

Sadly?

[wiccame]

Only if you assume the figure is Andraste.

 

 

 

Given the Devs have said that it will make sense, i trust that it will make sense.

Maybe the figure manifests differently depending on what race you play...to whoever would be their deity (for lack of better word). A bit like the vision of someone from your past in the gauntlet.

 

But yeah I have no idea why people would hate on Andraste. But isn't that the same with any religion, it's not the action of the one being revered but rather their followers that may or may not do things to tarnish them.