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Vashoth Mage.....Will be Executed?


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#51
Icy Magebane

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Pfft like i care what you think :P

 

Here, a vision of YOUR future Mr. green spandex.

 

 

Spoiler

 

You just enjoy that you hear  :P

Damn!  So much for that superhero... :o

 

rofl...  I'm just kidding anyway.  Whatever makes your boat float!  :bandit:

 

(and just so that I'm not horribly off-topic... I hope that whatever they have planned for IB, it creates a sense of tension and drama so that his struggle with the Qun is not a superficial one.  If he just wants to leave so he can drink beer all day, I'll be disappointed.)


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#52
Sifr

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The way I see it, the Qunari subscribe to a "Not my job, not my problem" mentality when it comes to anything that goes outside of their assigned role. Sten and Tallis have no problem being around mages (although they are still wary of them) because their role in the Qun does not demand that they actively do anything about them. Sten is a warrior, Tallis is a spy, neither have jobs that normally require them to hunt mages, not unless they were specifically demanded to do so.

 

For Arvaraad on the other hand, hunting mages (and Tal-Vashoth) is his entire job, so he naturally responded with "Kill it with fire!"


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#53
animedreamer

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That would've been idiotic on his part. The warden being a mage is hardly secret.

 

Actually no it wouldn't be, who else was there from the Antaam? No one. Was there any Ben-Hassrath there? No.. there was no one else as far as the Qunari know to account for what happened during the Blight, unless you think random people who were also in Ferelden went to Par Vollen and told the Antaam officials what happened. Also whether or not it was secret is a matter opinion, your designation is the Grey Warden, not the Mage. Outside of a few tent chats no one identifies the Warden as a mage solely, save for who Anora when she tries to bribe you? psh doubt she's writing the potential invaders about her esteemed newest Hero. Let's also not forget Sten made it it perfectly clear that his company was the Vanguard for the antaam, the people solely responsible for finding out answers when it comes to what something is for the Antaam in the outside world. If the Arishok could have just asked someone in the Ariqun to tell him then wouldn't that just negate the point of having a advanced scouting unit? In a new situation they are the first ones to investigate, no one is telling the Qunari anything until the Beresaad have done their job and reported back, to which then more than likely if deemed of interest the Ariqun would send it's spies into that area. 

 

Do you believe they'd just take Sten's word that the Mage Warden is an Ashkaari, or Basalit-an? and thus it was okay for him to be following this person around, despite them potentially conversing with Demons (Desire Demon in the Fade, The Desire Demon in the Circle Tower, The Guardian of the Sacred Ashes, The Sloth Demon, Kitty, Sophia Dresden, ect ect), and using Blood Magic potentially. No it makes more sense that Sten would simply address the Warden for what she/he was, a Grey Warden one of whom his people have heard the following  "My people have heard legends of the wardens strength and skill, though i suppose not all legends are true." doesn't sound like they revere the wardens for their magic.



#54
animedreamer

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The way I see it, the Qunari subscribe to a "Not my job, not my problem" mentality when it comes to anything that goes outside of their assigned role. Sten and Tallis have no problem being around mages (although they are still wary of them) because their role in the Qun does not demand that they actively do anything about them. Sten is a warrior, Tallis is a spy, neither have jobs that normally require them to hunt mages, not unless they were specifically demanded to do so.

 

For Arvaraad on the other hand, hunting mages (and Tal-Vashoth) is his entire job, so he naturally responded with "Kill it with fire!"

 

Guess i'll say it again... not the point. This isn't about whether or not Iron Bull should execute the mage Inquisitor, this is about whether or not his convictions in keeping true to the Qun should be and would be tested should he reveal to his superiors that he has followed and potentially loved a mage not of The Qun. As again a non Qun mage is one that is pretty much left free to corrupt those around him/her as reasoned by the Qun, and thus subject himself to scrutiny and possibly execution for his part in the affair. the end.

 

Tallis, Sten and any other Qunari we meet and join with, obviously have alternative motives for hanging with us, they are written into our good graces by virtue of being a part of the current plot, in some cases you can choose to not recruit them as I suspect will be the case with IB as well, but it doesn't change the fact that they are Qunari. No one is saying every Qunari is a ardent follower of the Qun, some play more loosely than others, whether it's because their personality, or their job demands they do so, however under certain circumstances they are still held accountable for where they have been, and what they have done. Sten mentions that the Qunari sometimes have massive parties when a Qunari has been proclaimed special (I forgot the exact name), usually posthumously. His description of it ends with him telling us sometimes executions have to be performed to bring the revealers back under control. Yeah, they will kill people for partying a little to hard and long, why would they not kill someone who has admitted they have screwed around with non-Qunari mages who are even MORE dangerous than Qunari mages because they haven't been properly defanged, and leashed by a Arvaarad. 

 

Also the Arvaarad's job is to control the Qunari mages, not mages outside of the Qun, by default anyone of the Antaam could take the responsibility of dealing with a leashless mage, because it's a danger to everyone around it. It's like saying "I'm not a zoo keeper, I'll let that wild dog run free in my backyard as long as he wants." Sure if you can call pest control to come get the thing, but i some how doubt that works in Thedas, (getting word to a templar tends to take time, and a Qunari is less likely to try and deal with them either.) a trained soldier of the Antaam or a particularly skilled agent of the Benhassrath should and would deal with a rogue mage outside of the Qun if it is deemed a necessary risk. 

 

Now obviously they have more important things to do than look for rogue mages not of the Qun on in other peoples lands. In Dragon Age 2, they are confined to their compound, because they choose to be, and have more important issues, besides the Templars are there to do that and it's again not their land. However when a Qunari is tasked with finding a rogue mage of the Qun we see the end result.. it's death, and death for anyone who was around that mage. Only one of those men was a Arvaarad but we fought his entire company, that's just how it goes. It's not just one person's job it's the job of anyone who is appointed to that task. 


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#55
Sifr

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Except that we do know that there are Qunari agents in and around Thedas, who obviously have been infilitrating the various nations long enough that Tallis had to protect their identities in MotA when they risked being compromised, long before Sten and the rest of the Beresaad were sent to Ferelden.

 

While it's possible that until the Fifth Blight the Qunari had absolutely no interest in Ferelden, seeing it as a quiet backwater compared to the Orlesians who have traditionally and historically being a lot more dangerous, the main reason that Sten was there as an advanced scout is because he was sent to find out information about the Blight. You wouldn't send a spy in to do that work, you'd send in some of the toughest guys you have, because you're expecting to find a ton of Darkspawn. If we assume the Qunari have had little-to-few agents in Ferelden thus far, then the chance to get additional intel on Ferelden defences and military in the process was a secondary objective at best.

 

I agree that the issue with why various Qunari interact with Mage Inquisitors, Wardens and Hawkes is problematic given their anti-Magic stance.

 

In the latter two cases, the Warden is likely defined as a Warden first and a Mage second, so the Qunari may either accept that they have enough discipline not to be corrupted or will leave that task upto the Wardens to deal with. Similarly, a Mage Hawke (post-Act 3) has a lot of Templar attention from those in power and Hawke's freedom is conditional on their service to Kirkwall, making Hawke just as "leashed" as a Saarebas, but with a lot more rope.

 

(Tallis meanwhile plays fast and loose with the Qun, so she's not the type to care that Hawke's a Mage. She may be a believer in the Qun, but she's not a very good Qunari when it comes to following orders, something that we know has gotten her in a lot of trouble in the past.)

 

As for the incident with Arvaraad, he may have been the only one in his Antaam, but the others were still subordinate to him. If he told a Ashaad to kill a Mage, even if that's not the job of a Scout, they'd do so because Qunari don't question their orders.

 

So to answer your question... I don't know. If Iron Bull was reporting on a Mage Inquisitor and they told him to kill them, I don't know whether or not he'd go through with the order or not? I personally don't think they would give that order despite the sheer amount of demonic contact that the Inquisitor has, due to their being the only one who can stop the Fade Tears, making them incredible vital to prevent catastrophe.

 

If they did give that order, it would likely be conditional to be carried out only after the Breach is dealt with, but until then the Iron Bull is to protect the Inquisitor with his life. The Qunari aren't stupid enough to waste an asset after all, at least until it's no longer needed.


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#56
DisturbedJim83

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But it's hot!  :wub:

There is no hot,The Hot is a LIE!



#57
Ryzaki

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*snip*

The Qunari have spies everywhere. The hero of Fereldan is known in more than just Fereldan. So yeah it's a very stupid idea on Sten's part. You really think they wouldn't back up Sten's information? He already has to go for reeducation. They're very likely to be thorough and back up his information.



#58
Willowhugger

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Iron Bull is a spy.

Specifically, he's a spy to spy on the Inquisition.

 

In what universe does a spy kill the head of the group he's spying on?

Or want to?

That kind of defeats the purpose of covert.



#59
animedreamer

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Iron Bull is a spy.

Specifically, he's a spy to spy on the Inquisition.

 

In what universe does a spy kill the head of the group he's spying on?

Or want to?

That kind of defeats the purpose of covert.

 

My name is Bond, James Bond.



#60
Icy Magebane

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Iron Bull is a spy.

Specifically, he's a spy to spy on the Inquisition.

 

In what universe does a spy kill the head of the group he's spying on?

Or want to?

That kind of defeats the purpose of covert.

I think that Iron Bull is spying on humanity in general, not specifically the Inquisition... I mean, if he tells you up front that he's "spying" on us, that would make him a pretty lousy infiltrator, right? xD



#61
Cainhurst Crow

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A loyal to the qun mercenary seems a bit contradictory, no? In DA2 the arishock, tal-vashoth, and qunari all said that a mercenary was the worst thing one could be, most dishonorable path, lower then tal-vashoth, walking insult to the qun, etc.

 

Maybe he still has personal beliefs similar tot he qun, but I doubt he'll be loyal enough to it to the point where he tries to kill the inquisitor because he's a saarebas. Maybe he won't like you, but I doubt he'll try to execute you, otherwise it'd open the big old hole of "Why don't you kill yourself and live by the qun then?" plothole.

 

Thinking it'll make you start off on the wrong foot with him, like fenris and being a mage hawke, which could get worse depending on your interactions with them throughout the game.



#62
Sifr

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A loyal to the qun mercenary seems a bit contradictory, no? In DA2 the arishock, tal-vashoth, and qunari all said that a mercenary was the worst thing one could be, most dishonorable path, lower then tal-vashoth, walking insult to the qun, etc.

 

You're forgetting that he's a spy for the Qunari.

 

While a dwarf, elf or human who follows the Qun could easily pass in human lands without any problems whatsoever, when you're over six-feet tall, have grey skin and prominent horns, you really don't have a lot of options available for what your cover is going to be?

 

Iron Bull's problem is that he's been undercover so long, he's gone native and isn't sure if he's become the mask or not?



#63
metalfenix

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I LOVE Iron Bull, but if he does something aganist my vashot mage...he will be treated as a traitor, so I'll ask him to leave, and if he wants a fight he'll have it.

 

But I expect he'll have a moderate position regarding mages. He would be a poor spy otherwise.



#64
Willowhugger

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I think that Iron Bull is spying on humanity in general, not specifically the Inquisition... I mean, if he tells you up front that he's "spying" on us, that would make him a pretty lousy infiltrator, right? xD

 

I think that's sort of the point.

 

Iron Bull says to you he's a spy upfront.

 

And you get to choose whether to let him continue to report or not.

 

Which, oddly enough, is not that uncommon and happened a couple of times in the Cold War with the KGB.

"You know I'm a spy so just let me send my reports on nonessential stuff and they won't send somebody else."

Truth is stranger than fiction.

Also, Iron Bull seems to hold his superiors in contempt.

 

And before folk say you should never let a spy report--Sten was doing this EXACT SAME THING. What is a soldier reporting on the Blight if not a spy?


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#65
Cainhurst Crow

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You're forgetting that he's a spy for the Qunari.

 

While a dwarf, elf or human who follows the Qun could easily pass in human lands without any problems whatsoever, when you're over six-feet tall, have grey skin and prominent horns, you really don't have a lot of options available for what your cover is going to be?

 

Iron Bull's problem is that he's been undercover so long, he's gone native and isn't sure if he's become the mask or not?

 

Been trying to keep myself unspoiled for the game, but knowing that makes me quite interested in the character. I wonder how we'll find out about his role, whether he'll come clean about it or if we'll have to get them to slip up with his cover every now and again like Leiliana.



#66
Sifr

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I think that's sort of the point.

 

Iron Bull says to you he's a spy upfront.

 

And you get to choose whether to let him continue to report or not.

 

Which, oddly enough, is not that uncommon and happened a couple of times in the Cold War with the KGB.

"You know I'm a spy so just let me send my reports on nonessential stuff and they won't send somebody else."

Truth is stranger than fiction.

Also, Iron Bull seems to hold his superiors in contempt.

 

And before folk say you should never let a spy report--Sten was doing this EXACT SAME THING. What is a soldier reporting on the Blight if not a spy?

 

Of course, Iron Bull could be a triple agent.

 

Think about it. By telling you that he's a disaffected spy who hates his job and his superiors, as well as offering to send nonsense reports back home, this actually serves to increase your trust in him being on your side rather than the Qunari's. Throw in some hit-squads to go after him and it make it appear like those back home want him dead for defecting, it makes it look even more golden.

 

In reality, that's all just a smokescreen that throw you off the truth that he really is loyal to the Qun and in addition to the nonsense reports you allowed him to send, there's one or two that contain highly detailed accounts about the Inquisition's activities.

 

Keep in mind that In DA2, the Arishok was devious enough to con the thieves going after the recipe for Gaatlok by replacing the formula with that of Saar-qamek, as well as leaving some redshirts to be killed to impart a sense of worth. So Qunari pulling these sorts of gambits aren't without precedent.

 

To quote Jack Sparrow in On Stranger Tides;

 

"You lied to me... by telling the truth?"


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#67
Willowhugger

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If he pulls that off, he deserves to win!

 

;-)


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