That has nothing to do with what I was talking about in the post you quoted. I think you got conversations crossed.
It's not official, I suppose, but this is a good resource for the tattoos and their meanings: http://www.glitterdu...vallaslin-lore/
I do wonder how a "rebel" would be handled. Would they be expected to leave the clan? Surely if you're 30 and have no vallaslin you wouldn't be considered for such a task like being First or spying on an important gathering. They'd want someone that's considered an adult, and if you refuse to do it, does that mean you'll be considered a child yet? If you felt that strongly about being "different" from other Dalish, probably would have left on your own anyway before events occurred...? Hmm.
Thank you! for the reference page link. I've always wondered about this, but never dug in and tried to figure it out directly. Turns out my dalish Warden had the correct tattoos ^^, Elgar'nan. So cool. 
Now I can get into my dalish inquisitors just that much more. Wish we had something similar for the other tattoo conventions. Like which crime the casteless brands represent? Avvar heritage symbology? Very helpful little resource.
Nothing was crossed. My reply was a statement to the fact of it doesn't matter when they competed for the position of First. They would have to get the Vallaslin regardless. The reasoning is irrelevant as to why they could not have the tattoos, simply because it would be required to get it when they are chosen.
I know what you were referring to, but that post in particular was answering a post that seemed to imply that training only occurred after they were marked.
The tattoos for the Dalish would be equivalent to a rite of citizenship is the thing, and whether an individual has yet earned their keep. If one refused, it's like refusing your birthright and what your people represent. It would coincide with turning one's back on the tribe of their own choice. So for story and character building reasons, I'm glad they're required. The character will be more grounded in the story being told. I was hoping to also have a city elf origin available as 1 of 6, but it's helpful playing dalish.
And I've just said that they shouldn't do that. If a player decides to ruin his game, let him. They shouldn't waste a bunch of resources supporting the choice of some lone crackpot who does something crazy.
I know I do some odd things in these games, and I wouldn't want to waste developer resources to support something only I do.
But I also object to developer resources being spent specifically to stop me.
A player who jumps into the game and makes character design choices he doesn't understand has only himself to blame if it ruins his gamrplay experience. We shouldn't pander to that sort of reckless inattention to detail.
They aren't being used to stop you, Sylvius. That's my point. They only have sufficient resources to do the Dalish. They do not have the resources to do a rebellious Dalish elf or a city elf. It's that simple.
Why do we care about enforcing that in someone else's game?
And mages don't all wield staves, I hope. I much preferred the DAO design where staves (or weapons at all) were optional.
Do you enjoy setting yourself up for disappointment, Sylvius? They've already told us the weapons are class restricted.
Yes, harassing someone to get on with doing something while saying it is fine to take their time is being a jerk.
But telling them to get it done in a reasonable time-frame isn't. And if it is a requirement for full citizenship (like the vallaslin), then not getting marks you as immature and irresponsible by any objective standard. You will need to get them eventually, or you're not an adult.
If we we're playing eighteen year-olds, I'd agree with you. But as we're playing characters who range between the ages of twenty-forty (meaning that's anywhere between two and twenty-two years after we're supposed to get the vallaslin), it's just nonsense.
Oh, I know what the Dalish will do. They flat out tell you. They are going to 'reeducate' their City Elf cousins.
Source?
Quote and citation, please. And not the wiki.
You are correct in the definition of compromise. However that makes this not a compromise since one side is getting exactly what they want.
Do we?
I apologize for the double-post.
I'm not asking for those options. I'm asking for the ability to have no tattoo within the Dalish origin. I get that it wouldn't make any sense. I get that there would be no reaction from the other elves.They aren't being used to stop you, Sylvius. That's my point. They only have sufficient resources to do the Dalish. They do not have the resources to do a rebellious Dalish elf or a city elf. It's that simple.
You're all about the baseless assumptions today.Do you enjoy setting yourself up for disappointment, Sylvius? They've already told us the weapons are class restricted.
The tattoos for the Dalish would be equivalent to a rite of citizenship is the thing, and whether an individual has yet earned their keep. If one refused, it's like refusing your birthright and what your people represent. It would coincide with turning one's back on the tribe of their own choice. So for story and character building reasons, I'm glad they're required. The character will be more grounded in the story being told. I was hoping to also have a city elf origin available as 1 of 6, but it's helpful playing dalish.
I think someone rejecting their upbringing - as a general rule - makes for a much more compelling character than a dedicated order taker.
Did I mention that I wanted mages to use a non-mage weapon? All I said was I hoped I could have a mage who didn't use a staff. How do you get from that to thinking about a mage using a different weapon?
Possibly getting that with the KE..... though not sure yet 
The KE can summon other weapons.Possibly getting that with the KE..... though not sure yet
The KE can summon other weapons.
I'd like to go weaponless.
May I ask why? Just for aestetic purposes?
I didn't like the idea of a magical auto-attack in DAO, so I avoided it by not carrying a staff. Also, not having a weapon equipped offered actual gameplay benefit, because you didn't have to wait for the weapon to be drawn prior to casting spells, so not having a weapon was like winning initiative in every combat encounter.May I ask why? Just for aestetic purposes?
I didn't like the idea of a magical auto-attack in DAO, so I avoided it by not carrying a staff. Also, not having a weapon equipped offered actual gameplay benefit, because you didn't have to wait for the weapon to be drawn prior to casting spells, so not having a weapon was like winning initiative in every combat encounter.
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I never thought of that!!!! Guess what I'm doing on this current Mage playthrough..... 
I think someone rejecting their upbringing - as a general rule - makes for a much more compelling character than a dedicated order taker.
The vallaslin are part of the culture of the Dalish, and that's the crux of the character - a person who is one of the People. The Dalish also refuse to adhere to human rule and follow a religion that is banned by the Chantry, so the character is an outlaw of the human order by default.
I think someone rejecting their upbringing - as a general rule - makes for a much more compelling character than a dedicated order taker.
Someone that rejected their upbringing would probably have been exiled or just plain left before the events in the game even started. They are not likely to have gotten to such a valued position as being First or an important hunter and provider for the clan. If they have been silently chafing under the rule of their people, the big explosion that leads to them becoming the Inquisitor is the perfect time for that character to break away and do what they wish, and their people be damned.
I'm really curious if people complained or had this much problem with the set backstories for Hawke or the origins in DA:O. 
Also despite being a Keepers first, you may not have Vallaslin for any number of reasons. Like the Keeper themselves thinking that you are not ready for adult responsibilities. Being taught the old ways does not mean you're ready to lead the people, but that you're learning still. You may not have Vallaslin simply because the keeper has said "Nope, I don't think you're ready." or maybe something on your part.
I'm really curious if people complained or had this much problem with the set backstories for Hawke or the origins in DA:O.
I don't know about DA:O, but about DA2? Oh, yeah, the lack of different origins was a big issue. You can spot some complaints even today. That Bioware took an extra year to add these different backgrounds to DA:I (among other things) is telling.
Someone that rejected their upbringing would probably have been exiled or just plain left before the events in the game even started. They are not likely to have gotten to such a valued position as being First or an important hunter and provider for the clan. If they have been silently chafing under the rule of their people, the big explosion that leads to them becoming the Inquisitor is the perfect time for that character to break away and do what they wish, and their people be damned.
I'm really curious if people complained or had this much problem with the set backstories for Hawke or the origins in DA:O.
True, someone who didn't want to be Dalish would likely have left the Lavellan Clan at this point, like Arianni, Zevran's mother (and Zevran as well), Velanna, and Merrill did. The vallaslin are a proud part of Dalish culture, so it's hardly surprising that they come with being one of the last remnants of Dales' society. If someone doesn't want to play as a Dalish elf, they might be more entertained with one of the other racial options.
I'm not asking for those options. I'm asking for the ability to have no tattoo within the Dalish origin. I get that it wouldn't make any sense. I get that there would be no reaction from the other elves.
I'm not asking for anything other than the ability not to have a tattoo.
Which they aren't going to give us, because it would require them to make it make sense. As that would be too cost intensive, they aren't going to do it.
You're all about the baseless assumptions today.
Did I mention that I wanted mages to use a non-mage weapon? All I said was I hoped I could have a mage who didn't use a staff. How do you get from that to thinking about a mage using a different weapon?
I didn't, you did. The weapons are class-restricted, meaning that as a Mage, you are going to have to use a staff. As a Warrior, you have to use either sword-and-board or a two-hander, and the rogues use daggers/bows. That's it. No hand to hand stuff that I've been able to find.
That's all I said. I don't know where you got the idea that I was talking about Mages using different weapons.
How AWESOME would it be if we could make a staff like the one Hawke had in one of the old trailers and USE IT like he does. Like the top half can be your everyday normal mage staff, and the bottom half is a sword blade for when you want to get up close and personal. And hell, it'd be perfect for Knight Enchanters which as I understand are all about getting up close.
I don't want to fight hand to hand. I'm not asking about combat.I didn't, you did. The weapons are class-restricted, meaning that as a Mage, you are going to have to use a staff. As a Warrior, you have to use either sword-and-board or a two-hander, and the rogues use daggers/bows. That's it. No hand to hand stuff that I've been able to find.
Not if they did it my way.Which they aren't going to give us, because it would require them to make it make sense.
I don't want to fight hand to hand. I'm not asking about combat.
You're being deliberately obtuse.
The weapons are class-restricted. Like it or no, you are going to use a staff as a Mage.
Not if they did it my way.
And what way is that, Sylvius? Just plop it down in the game, no explanation whatsoever?
That's digusting game design, the realm of amateurs and hacks. As you pointed out earlier, you can't just make something up as you go along.
Also despite being a Keepers first, you may not have Vallaslin for any number of reasons. Like the Keeper themselves thinking that you are not ready for adult responsibilities. Being taught the old ways does not mean you're ready to lead the people, but that you're learning still. You may not have Vallaslin simply because the keeper has said "Nope, I don't think you're ready." or maybe something on your part.
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